New Zealand v Wales - Saturday 26 June 2010 - Hamilton

[TRF_Cymro]

Much improved performance from Wales, but still not good enough. What has happened to our dicipline, it was apalling yet again in this game. I didn't think Byrne's tackle deserved a yellow at the time, but the stills posted by SmartCooky make it look worse than I thought! Jon Thomas was lucky to get away with that shoulder charge, definite yellow in my view, Kaplan probably pussied out because we were already down to 14!

As for the players performances, I thought Roberts, Halfpenny and McCusker were the standouts. I thought Roberts was immense throughout. He musy have forced at least 4 turnovers with some massive hits going in. He also showed what he can do when given ball and space late on in the second half.

Here's my player rating:

01 Paul James - 7 - One of his better games. Dominated scrum time, but didn't show up much in the loose.
02 Mathew Rees - 7 - Good lineout throwing, but not as prominent as usual in the loose.
03 Adam Jones - 8 - Back close to his best here, contributed to a dominant scrum and put in some good tackles.
04 Bradley Davies - 6 - Not as good as his other performances, but still worked hard.
05 Alun-Wyn Jones - 6 - Nothing special, but again solid performance.
06 Jon Thomas - 7 - Much better from him, did well at 8. Lucky not to see yellow though.
07 Gavin Thomas - 5 - Barely saw the man.
08 Ryan Jones - Not really enough time on the field. Started well.

09 Mike Phillips - 5 - Aweful game. Slow and ponderous. A couple of good tackles is all he did!
10 Dan Biggar - 6 - Hit and miss. Kicking from hand was generally good, but missed a couple of tackles and missed a kickable shot at goal.
11 Tom Prydie - 6 - Did little wrong, but wasn't willing to run with the ball.
12 Jame Roberts - 9 - Excellent throughout. Excellent defense, looked good with ball in hand and scored a try.
13 Jon Davies - 6 - Mixed bag, looked ok throughout but should have passed with two over on the right.
14 Leigh Halfpenny - 8 - Did all he could, looked dangerous with ball, but had little space to work with.
15 Lee Byrne - 6 - Better kicking from him, but spent 10 mins in the bin, and stillisn't hitting the line like he used to.

Just want to mention two replacements.

McCusker - 8 - Excellent after coming on, could become a great player.
Will Harries - 8 - Popped up everywhere and was willing to give it a go. Should have started.

I go with that! But reckon Bradley Davies was a 7. He did have a sort of good game in a losing side. Think Stephen Jones and Richie Rees made a difference also. As soon as they came on Roberts looked a different player in attack, it was also down to how Rees was able to get quick ball away from the ruck, allowed Jones and Roberts to have time to create the angles to make Roberts affective. McCusker is still raw but if he continues to develop then there is no doubt he will push JT away from that 6 shirt come AI. Will Harries looked bright, pity his first touch was a little weak, I don't think he realised he had more time than he actually had. Should start in front of Prydie if Shane is not fit.

 

[TVH11]

everyones mentioning mccusker and harries, and forget that richie rees was extremely effective in speeding the game up when he came on. I may be wrong but i'm sure it was him on the pitch when wales finally scored (quick ball i guess). but defo a much better performance all round

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Mike Phillips is the best scrum-half in Wales. Richie Rees is the scrum-half who suits Wales' gameplan. Pick Rees. I can see Tavis Knoyle poentially being the best of both worlds, but not yet.

Plus, there's Wayne Evans, who is far more tactically acute than any of the above, Dwyane Peel who is Rees but slightly slower but with a better pass, Martin Roberts who has one of the fastest pass in world Rugby, but nothing else, and Liam Davies, who is a good player, but has major attitude problems. And then there's Gareth Cooper, who's just Gareth Cooper.

We always seem to do well for scrum-halves in Wales.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Mike Phillips is the best scrum-half in Wales. Richie Rees is the scrum-half who suits Wales' gameplan. Pick Rees. I can see Tavis Knoyle poentially being the best of both worlds, but not yet.

Plus, there's Wayne Evans, who is far more tactically acute than any of the above, Dwyane Peel who is Rees but slightly slower but with a better pass, Martin Roberts who has one of the fastest pass in world Rugby, but nothing else, and Liam Davies, who is a good player, but has major attitude problems. And then there's Gareth Cooper, who's just Gareth Cooper.

We always seem to do well for scrum-halves in Wales.

Sorry that statement about Martin Roberts made me laugh and its definitely untrue. Mike Phillips is only just the best scrum half in Wales. Id stick with keeping Richie Rees on the bench for Wales because he can change the game for Wales as he did Saturday. I don't think the hype about Tavis Knoyle is all that, maybe he needs more game time in the Magners League. Wayne Evans should be in the squad in front of Knoyle, the boy has had a blinder of a season and since his move from Cardiff has looked twice the player.

 

[Jake Heke]

that made me lol, the fastest pass in rugby. Honestly I've never thought "damn, that guys pass is fast!" ever in my life since watching/playing rugby, funniest thing i read on the interwebs today.

 

[dullonien]

I honestly don't know why Mike Phillips has had such a poor set of games. He's got all the skills needed as shown in the past, but for some reason isn't using them. His box kicking has been good in the past, but lately has been going too far and coughing up the ball to the opposition. His passing is generally good, but he's been taking forever to get it out. Compare this to Rees who get's the ball out as fast as possible. Why Phillips thinks it's better to wait for the players outside arrange themselves is beyond me, as he's just allowing time for the defense to organise. He's also been innaffective in his running game recently too. Is it that he's not fully recovered from the injury layoff he had? I'm not sure, as he seems fit, but is just playing poorly.

He's gotta watch out, as there are quality replacements. Rees looks the better option, and Wayne Evans should be in the mix. Knoyle imo looks to have the lot in terms of skillset, but needs a season as first choice at the Scarlets to prove himself. Peel needs to sort himself out, as he's falling further and further behind. The less said about Cooper the better!

On another note, I think this tour in general has been quite a useful one for Wales. We've uncovered a few players who should be pushing for squad places/spots in the 22. Just looking at blindsie, all of a sudden we've got quite a few choices when everyones fit. Jon Thomas, Dan Lydiate, Rob McCusker, Sam Warberton, Dafydd Jones, Andy Powell. That's a healthy list! A couple of wings have been given opportunities, both showing they are capable. Paul James looks to have improved further as a player, whilst Roberts has returned to form. Bishop showed in the first test that he's got a future at international level, putting pressure on Roberts and Hook. Ken Owens atleast had some time against England for the Barbarians and looked good (no thatnks to Gatland!).

A few more in the Autumn, including the mentioned Owens, Aled Brew, Gustaffson, Wayne Evans, Jason Tovey and more from Will Harries and the depth should grow further. It's just a pitty were now only a year from the w/c, but looking further ahead, things are looking promising.

 

[SelimNiai]

I honestly don't know why Mike Phillips has had such a poor set of games. He's got all the skills needed as shown in the past, but for some reason isn't using them. His box kicking has been good in the past, but lately has been going too far and coughing up the ball to the opposition. His passing is generally good, but he's been taking forever to get it out. Compare this to Rees who get's the ball out as fast as possible. Why Phillips thinks it's better to wait for the players outside arrange themselves is beyond me, as he's just allowing time for the defense to organise. He's also been innaffective in his running game recently too. Is it that he's not fully recovered from the injury layoff he had? I'm not sure, as he seems fit, but is just playing poorly.

Maybe he has got complacent but I agree there is a massive difference to the 2008 Mike Philips and the 2010 Mike Phillips. He is beginning to show the attribute I slated him for before he came good. Slow distribution, too many steps before passing and making wrong decisions at rucks by charging into their defence with no support. It's got to the point (like whoever mentioned it earlier) that we get better when he goes off.

Another thing that irked me during Saturdays game, there was a penalty to NZ at a ruck. Phillips goes to get the ball off Cowan, looks at the ref and sees we've been penalised and STILL goes for the ball thereby costing us 10 more meters.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I honestly don't know why Mike Phillips has had such a poor set of games. He's got all the skills needed as shown in the past, but for some reason isn't using them. His box kicking has been good in the past, but lately has been going too far and coughing up the ball to the opposition. His passing is generally good, but he's been taking forever to get it out. Compare this to Rees who get's the ball out as fast as possible. Why Phillips thinks it's better to wait for the players outside arrange themselves is beyond me, as he's just allowing time for the defense to organise. He's also been innaffective in his running game recently too. Is it that he's not fully recovered from the injury layoff he had? I'm not sure, as he seems fit, but is just playing poorly.

He's gotta watch out, as there are quality replacements. Rees looks the better option, and Wayne Evans should be in the mix. Knoyle imo looks to have the lot in terms of skillset, but needs a season as first choice at the Scarlets to prove himself. Peel needs to sort himself out, as he's falling further and further behind. The less said about Cooper the better!

On another note, I think this tour in general has been quite a useful one for Wales. We've uncovered a few players who should be pushing for squad places/spots in the 22. Just looking at blindsie, all of a sudden we've got quite a few choices when everyones fit. Jon Thomas, Dan Lydiate, Rob McCusker, Sam Warberton, Dafydd Jones, Andy Powell. That's a healthy list! A couple of wings have been given opportunities, both showing they are capable. Paul James looks to have improved further as a player, whilst Roberts has returned to form. Bishop showed in the first test that he's got a future at international level, putting pressure on Roberts and Hook. Ken Owens atleast had some time against England for the Barbarians and looked good (no thatnks to Gatland!).

A few more in the Autumn, including the mentioned Owens, Aled Brew, Gustaffson, Wayne Evans, Jason Tovey and more from Will Harries and the depth should grow further. It's just a pitty were now only a year from the w/c, but looking further ahead, things are looking promising.

Agree with the above.

But Peel for me needs to move back to Wales otherwise he will be overlooked again. No offense to Sale but this season will be tough and it will show how good / material Peel is made of. Hopefully it will raise his game.

For me Hugh Gustafson has to improve his scrummaging to be looked at for Wales. His loose and tight play is good but his scrummaging is poor. If he works on it and improves ... then yes get him in. But I may also note that Scott Andrews is not to be overlooked also. The lad was on the standby list for Wales and preformed for the Blues when called upon and was pretty solid in the Amlin Cup Final.

 

[Draggs]

It might be time for Hook to come back to 10, hopefully Henson will be fit to play at centre.
Stephen Jones has been quite poor lately and Dan Biggar seems simply out of his depth.

Mike's distribution has been slower lately, but has improved over the past few games. It is a shame Dwayne isn't getting a looking, as he still can play a good game.
I would like to see Wayne Evans in the red jersey soon, perhaps against Fiji this fall.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

It might be time for Hook to come back to 10, hopefully Henson will be fit to play at centre.
Stephen Jones has been quite poor lately and Dan Biggar seems simply out of his depth.

Mike's distribution has been slower lately, but has improved over the past few games. It is a shame Dwayne isn't getting a looking, as he still can play a good game.
I would like to see Wayne Evans in the red jersey soon, perhaps against Fiji this fall.

Jones had been poor until he stepped onto the pitch in the second test. Without him and Rees I very much doubt that Roberts would have scored against the All Blacks.

 

[Thingimubob]

Jones had been poor until he stepped onto the pitch in the second test. Without him and Rees I very much doubt that Roberts would have scored against the All Blacks.

I agree, Rees added a bit more zip to the play, and it just seemed like Jones was able to put Roberts into the gaps more than Biggar had before. It is frustrating how Gatland has been overlooking a lot of form players in Wales, and I just hope he is going to start picking the likes of Harries, Tovey (a lot of people have even argued that he's a much better 10 than Biggar) and Ken Owens in the future. Really hope he picks Aled Brew when he's back from injury, we could use a fast, but physical winger like him in the team. We did try Tom James, though he's probably not quite ready - Aled Brew has been superb for a long time, so really hoping to see him play for Wales again.

 

[Draggs]

It would be nice to have Brew or Harries on the wing, but you can't drop Shane, and Halfpenny plays well and has done nothing to be dropped. Without Leigh, we would also lack a long-range penalty kicker.

When Shane retires after the WC, we could certainly see Harries, Brew, Prydie, or James take his spot.

Stephen Jones is hot and cold. During the first test he was non existent. Hook is a much more mobile 10 and when on form, offers much more creativity and is also much quicker.

Probably the biggest reason we scored was due to the fact we kept the ball in and (unlike the first test) and just kept it close, getting closer and closer. Rees' distribution was quicker than Mike's that game, and was a major factor in allowing us to advance like that.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

It would be nice to have Brew or Harries on the wing, but you can't drop Shane, and Halfpenny plays well and has done nothing to be dropped. Without Leigh, we would also lack a long-range penalty kicker.

When Shane retires after the WC, we could certainly see Harries, Brew, Prydie, or James take his spot.

Stephen Jones is hot and cold. During the first test he was non existent. Hook is a much more mobile 10 and when on form, offers much more creativity and is also much quicker.

Probably the biggest reason we scored was due to the fact we kept the ball in and (unlike the first test) and just kept it close, getting closer and closer. Rees' distribution was quicker than Mike's that game, and was a major factor in allowing us to advance like that.

So if you moved Hook to 10 (a silly thing to do anyway) who would you play in the centre to partner Roberts?

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Sorry that statement about Martin Roberts made me laugh and its definitely untrue. Mike Phillips is only just the best scrum half in Wales. Id stick with keeping Richie Rees on the bench for Wales because he can change the game for Wales as he did Saturday. I don't think the hype about Tavis Knoyle is all that, maybe he needs more game time in the Magners League. Wayne Evans should be in the squad in front of Knoyle, the boy has had a blinder of a season and since his move from Cardiff has looked twice the player.

Yeah, I thought "That's over-exadurating it a bit", but "Fastest pass in Wales" isn't saying much, when our first-choice is about the speed of a drugged-up Tortoise on a running machine. And the word 'Europe' wasn't a viable option because I said so.

It's called a poetic license, sheesh!

Frankly, Gustafson has never played alongside a good Tighthead (Or looshead- He can play both sides) and so how do we know he isn't keeping the Dragons scrum alive. Give him a chance alongside Adam/Geth and see how he does against, say, Fiji this autumn.

 

[Draggs]

How would it be silly? He is arguably the best standoff in Wales. When he was played in 2007 and 2008 against England, he was a leading factor in our success.
Besides, Stephen Jones will more than likely retire after the World Cup, who is to say Biggar, or any other standoff, is ready for the position full time?
Ideally I would like Henson partnered with Roberts. If not, it would have to be Hook in the centre.

Roberts could be a better option at 13if you have Henson at 12, as a relief for the standoff, as it is often used.

So if you moved Hook to 10 (a silly thing to do anyway) who would you play in the centre to partner Roberts?

 

[SelimNiai]

I have seen more from Hook at 12 since he moved than I did in all his games at 10.He must stay there.

 

[Bargoedboy]

to me Roberts is not a 12 pure and simple , he passes like he has boxing gloves on. with henson at 12 roberts could be put into space time and again. I believe Hook can play 12 and without henson , he is our best bet at 12, i could never understand why hook and roberts were wrong way round.
Here`s my thinking behind this , roberts is a great big lump and draws defenders onto him, as players are afraid he can burst straight through. trouble is once he has drawn in these players he just does not have the ability to keep ball alive, and this is the single biggest factor to our lack of tries. Our creativity died henson was replaced with roberts, yet with Hook at 12 and second reciever , roberts could be put onto crash ball , and with roberts running a good line he will take defenders out of line which would allow Hook who is a real balanced runner to cut inside/ misspass/ or chip ball for roberts and wingers to run onto.
Either way far more options than we have now.

 

[Draggs]

I have seen more from Hook at 12 since he moved than I did in all his games at 10.He must stay there.

He has played well at 12, but perhaps he is just more experienced now.
Hook is quicker than Roberts, so I could imagine part of the reason for having Hook there is to make breaks.
That being said, you really do need someone with a boot at 12, to allow the standoff some relief if they cannot clear.

Regardless of if it is at standoff, inside-, or outside centre, Hook should certainly have a place in the squad.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Here's a thought: Brew at 13. This Matt Evans looks like a good player, so once Martyn Thomas is back from injury why not try a backline for the Dragons of-

9. Evans
10. Tovey
11. Harries
12. Smith
13. Brew
14. Thomas
15. Evans

I bet brew could make a fantastic centre- he pops up there enough anyway, he's big enough, and makes the breaks required. However, Thomas isn't a finisher in the same regard as Brew, but it's worth a shot, as you must try and get your best players on the pitch. Try him for two or three games and see how he goes, because with Shanklin over the hill, if Hook falls we're really left with just Bish as a 13. Brew was the form wing in Wales last year, (Well, until Harries came along) and if he can keep it up next year, then he will be an amazing asset to the Welsh side.

 

[dullonien]

I've heard a few people mention moving Brew into the centre. It would certainly add some pace that is currently lacking in the Welsh midfield. I wouldn't mind seeing him tested there for the Dragons, although it's probably unlikely due to their lack of quality wingers behind Brew and Harries. Pitty Fussell moved. Not sure if it would work, as he probably lacks the rugby brain needed, although he could work wonders.

Matt Evans looks to be a good player, but I hope they retain Martyn Thomas as first choice when he's back as he's a quality player and easily international quality. We're short of fullbacks in Wales, with no-one currently pushing Byrne, stick Evans on the wing if he's needed.