[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Australia (3/12/2016)

[Vieux Talonneur]

Maybe Lancaster would have got it in time.

He wouldn't.

Jones has clear vision, natural authority, man management skills and a track record that Lancaster could only dream of. Not to mention his press management which I think he quite enjoys but is mainly to take the heat off his players, bit like Ferguson used to do at Man U.

But there's a but. He's on record as only wanting to stay until 2019 and with the type of character that he is there's always a chance of something combusting before then. He's doing great work now, but the succession plan needs to be right.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Did no one suggest in the June Tours that the NH were fatigued because the 6N only finished mid-March? Strange.

Australia can only blame themselves though. They wrap up the 4N on 8 October, then schedule 7 additional matches over the following 8 weeks. Why would you do that, other than to engineer yourself a fatigue excuse?

And the ARU are broke and need the money.

 

[spartan32]

He wouldn't.

Jones has clear vision, natural authority, man management skills and a track record that Lancaster could only dream of. Not to mention his press management which I think he quite enjoys but is mainly to take the heat off his players, bit like Ferguson used to do at Man U.

But there's a but. He's on record as only wanting to stay until 2019 and with the type of character that he is there's always a chance of something combusting before then. He's doing great work now, but the succession plan needs to be right.

That's an excellent and very salient point. It does England very little use of we manage to snatch the top spot and a World Cup, only to lose the architect of our greatness and once again be cast into the abyss of poor coaching and management, with the inevitable results. We need to start thinking about the succession now and whoever it will be should be brought in as an assistant towards the end of EJs tenure so that any transition is smooth. Of course if we can take the number 1 spot and win the WC why not do everything we can to tempt EJ to stay?

But if he won't the job should be open to anyone, not just English coaches. And if I'm brutally honest, SH coaches seem to be so much better. Look at all the NH teams who have acquired one. They've all vastly improved. I'm not sure our crop of homegrown talent are up to the task. Maybe Hansen would fancy it?

 

[Makos]

And the ARU are broke and need the money.

It's quite worrying. I'm sure the Rebels are bound to get dropped sooner rather than later. The ARU has been forking out to keep them afloat for years now and I don't see them becoming financially self-reliant any time soon.

That 300m SANZAR TV deal pales in comparison to their AFL and NRL deals, both making 2b + from TV deals. Union will be extinct in Australia eventually, especially if their Super Rugby teams continue to decline, which looks probable.

The ARU are operating in the negatives year after year, interested to see this years report, see if those extra tests helped them towards the green.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's quite worrying. I'm sure the Rebels are bound to get dropped sooner rather than later. The ARU has been forking out to keep them afloat for years now and I don't see them becoming financially self-reliant any time soon.

That 300m SANZAR TV deal pales in comparison to their AFL and NRL deals, both making 2b + from TV deals. Union will be extinct in Australia eventually, especially if their Super Rugby teams continue to decline, which looks probable.

The ARU are operating in the negatives year after year, interested to see this years report, see if those extra tests helped them towards the green.

I was reading on G&GR that the ARU only made a profit in recent years when the Lions went over there in 2013, the rest of the years are losses. No wonder they are flogging the Wallabies to death.

Yes, agreed The Rebels (Melbourne is AFL country) and Western Force (They had so few players (excluding Wallaby players) during the lions tour, they had to ship them in to play against the Lions) are dead weight and ARU should just focus on the 3 other Super Rugby teams. The talent is stretched thin as it is.

 

[MikeTheNative]

If the ARU did go under would World Rugby bail them out?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If the ARU did go under would World Rugby bail them out?

If they go under down under, does that mean they are on the up...?

 

[ALJ]

I was reading on G&GR that the ARU only made a profit in recent years when the Lions went over there in 2013, the rest of the years are losses. No wonder they are flogging the Wallabies to death.

Yes, agreed The Rebels (Melbourne is AFL country) and Western Force (They had so few players (excluding Wallaby players) during the lions tour, they had to ship them in to play against the Lions) are dead weight and ARU should just focus on the 3 other Super Rugby teams. The talent is stretched thin as it is.

I read the other day that there are 60 Australian players now playing in Europe - that can't help things.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I read the other day that there are 60 Australian players now playing in Europe - that can't help things.

There's a fast way to ruin your national team.
How many saffer lads are playing in European teams?
.. and folks wonder why the AB's need to ask for more money to tour?
How else are they going to hold onto their players in a money go round world of professional sport...

 

[RedruthRFC]

My nap is God's Own in the Tingle Creek at Sandown

I hope you bet within your bankroll! I did have a look at God's own, but was put off by the fact that in two previous trips to Sandown, he managed on fall and one 7/10 and the strength of the opposition.

Well done to anyone saying overs who had the courage of their convictions and for that matter the overs on points backers, the weather forecast put me off that one.

 

[RedruthRFC]

That's an excellent and very salient point. It does England very little use of we manage to snatch the top spot and a World Cup, only to lose the architect of our greatness and once again be cast into the abyss of poor coaching and management, with the inevitable results. We need to start thinking about the succession now and whoever it will be should be brought in as an assistant towards the end of EJs tenure so that any transition is smooth.

True story. I can just imagine breakfast the day after the World Cup win - players: "what next coach?", SCW: "Erm...."!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Aim to win in 2019 lads, once Schmidt gets hold of NZ we're playing for second... Again!

 

[ncurd]

As mad as it sounds didn't we have some level of succession planning after 2003? SCW continued until the end of that season and then his no. 2 in Andy Robinson began his reign of terror. Even the loss of players was more gradual than remembered. The talent was still there though otherwise we'd have never of got to the 2007 final. Reality is whilst we had a plan it turns out that plan was utter rubbish.

 

[MikeTheNative]

If they go under down under, does that mean they are on the up...?

No they go to extreme depths... around where South Africa is at the moment.

 

[Hmmmmmm]

It's quite worrying. I'm sure the Rebels are bound to get dropped sooner rather than later. The ARU has been forking out to keep them afloat for years now and I don't see them becoming financially self-reliant any time soon.

That 300m SANZAR TV deal pales in comparison to their AFL and NRL deals, both making 2b + from TV deals. Union will be extinct in Australia eventually, especially if their Super Rugby teams continue to decline, which looks probable.

The ARU are operating in the negatives year after year, interested to see this years report, see if those extra tests helped them towards the green.

Incorrect. The Rebels are privately owned. The Force are currently the team being assisted by the ARU, however have plans in place to sell 'shares' - owntheforce.com.au. The plan is to sell 10000 shares @ $1000 each. In a very short time they've had almost 5000 people register their interest. A great initiative if it all works out.

Can't see rugby becoming extinct in Aus a anytime soon - can't have those Kiwis only having themselves to play with

 

[Makos]

Incorrect. The Rebels are privately owned. The Force are currently the team being assisted by the ARU, however have plans in place to sell 'shares' - owntheforce.com.au. The plan is to sell 10000 shares @ $1000 each. In a very short time they've had almost 5000 people register their interest. A great initiative if it all works out.

Can't see rugby becoming extinct in Aus a anytime soon - can't have those Kiwis only having themselves to play with

Incorrect. Yes the Rebels are privately owned, but the owner Andrew Cox has received funding from the ARU to keep it afloat for the last few seasons.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2016/04/01/Franchises/Melbourne-Rebels.aspx

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/aru-funds-rebels-private-owner-to-keep-expansion-club-afloat/news-story/86d59b6d4a5b7b4663878ea7af458305

 

[RoosTah]

Incorrect. Yes the Rebels are privately owned, but the owner Andrew Cox has received funding from the ARU to keep it afloat for the last few seasons.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2016/04/01/Franchises/Melbourne-Rebels.aspx

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/86d59b6d4a5b7b4663878ea7af458305

Thats right - the rebels are in quite a bit of trouble and their lack of FTA exposure and the dislocated and short term Super Rugby season has made it very hard for them to gain any traction in Victoria in the same way the Melbourne Storm have achieved in the NRL.

I've been saying it for a while, but rugby in Australia would have been far better served by having started its Super Rugby engagement on a city basis rather than a state one, as it would have opened the way for intra city expansions like a Western Sydney side

 

[Mike Rolls]

As mad as it sounds didn't we have some level of succession planning after 2003? SCW continued until the end of that season and then his no. 2 in Andy Robinson began his reign of terror. Even the loss of players was more gradual than remembered. The talent was still there though otherwise we'd have never of got to the 2007 final. Reality is whilst we had a plan it turns out that plan was utter rubbish.

Perhaps not all that gradual. 12 months later against Australia at Twickenham (lost 21-19) only Robinson, Tindall and Thompson from the 2003 starting line-up started (Kay, Cohen and Greenwood were on the bench and Wilkinson was absent injured)
Mike

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If they go under down under, does that mean they are on the up...?

Or if they go down the plug hole would it be clockwise or anti clockwise?

 

[ALJ]

As mad as it sounds didn't we have some level of succession planning after 2003? SCW continued until the end of that season and then his no. 2 in Andy Robinson began his reign of terror. Even the loss of players was more gradual than remembered. The talent was still there though otherwise we'd have never of got to the 2007 final. Reality is whilst we had a plan it turns out that plan was utter rubbish.

I think SCW had a single focus and that was winning the RWC.
Afterward, he and then Robinson refused to put some of the old guys out to pasture when they probably should have - at the time it looked like a good way to transition but they weren't brave enough at crucial times and that really screwed up the succession planning.

Also wasn't helped by JW spending pretty much the entire time between the 2 world cups broken. During the time he lost he would have become a key focal point for the side imho and when 2007 came, they expected him to be a senior player when in actual fact he'd played barely any rugby for 4 years.

As much as I enjoyed the 2007 WC, I still can't really understand how we made the final.