[November Tests 2016 EOYT] France vs. New Zealand (26/11/2016)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Stade de France
Time: 22:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[Larksea]

would normally be confident but I don't think the AB's are in a great place right now. A lot of our players are running on empty, injury list is on the rise. Last game of the season is always the toughest and I think player management has been bad this year. Reminds me of 2008.

Ben Smith and Sam Cane already ruled out.

I hope the coaches put some faith in McKenzie to play 15. the alternative is having Naholo & Savea on the wings again and I think that's a bad combination and IMO both of those players look out of form. McKenzie is also one of the fresher players in the squad.

I have no idea where the french are at. I really wanted to watch them play Aussie last weekend but it was only on the rugby channel. I dont even know what the score was

Probable
Dagg, Naholo, Fekitoa, ALB, Savea, Barrett, Smith, Read, Todd, Squire, Retalick, Whitelock, Franks, Coles, Moody
taylor, faumuina, crockett, Barrett, Savea, perenara, Cruden, ???

#I would pick.
McKenzie, Dagg, Fekitoa, ALB, Naholo, Barrett, Perenara, Read, Todd, Squire, Retalick, Whitelock, Franks, Coles, Moody
taylor, faumuina, crockett, Barrett, Savea, smith, Sopoaga, Lowe (ok ok tamanivalu)

but who knows, I think there could be more changes. Fekitoa may get a ban. Early days. I think we would benefit from including more fresh players, kinda a bit late being the last game of the season. Just need to get it done.

 

[Shaggy]

would normally be confident but I don't think the AB's are in a great place right now. A lot of our players are running on empty, injury list is on the rise. Last game of the season is always the toughest and I think player management has been bad this year. Reminds me of 2008.

Ben Smith and Sam Cane already ruled out.

I hope the coaches put some faith in McKenzie to play 15. the alternative is having Naholo & Savea on the wings again and I think that's a bad combination and IMO both of those players look out of form. McKenzie is also one of the fresher players in the squad.

I have no idea where the french are at. I really wanted to watch them play Aussie last weekend but it was only on the rugby channel. I dont even know what the score was

Probable
Dagg, Naholo, Fekitoa, ALB, Savea, Barrett, Smith, Read, Todd, Squire, Retalick, Whitelock, Franks, Coles, Moody
taylor, faumuina, crockett, Barrett, Savea, perenara, Cruden, ???

#I would pick.
McKenzie, Dagg, Fekitoa, ALB, Naholo, Barrett, Perenara, Read, Todd, Squire, Retalick, Whitelock, Franks, Coles, Moody
taylor, faumuina, crockett, Barrett, Savea, smith, Sopoaga, Lowe (ok ok tamanivalu)

but who knows, I think there could be more changes. Fekitoa may get a ban. Early days. I think we would benefit from including more fresh players, kinda a bit late being the last game of the season. Just need to get it done.

Wow! I'd forgotten that Mckenzie is even there ... Hansen has said he won't be seeking replacement for the injured players, or for Tuipolutu, so Lowe definitely won't be there (is Tamanivalu still with the squad). I think Crotty will be back in the mix this week, and I can't see Fekitoa starting, as I don't think they are even going to contest it at the Judiciary.

The playing squad for each game seems to have been preselected prior to the tour commencing, so it will be interesting to see how injuries and suspensions effect the side. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sopoanga starting, as he hasn't had much game time yet, and I would say that Ioane's a good chance of starting for the same reasons, if not, he'll probably be on the bench to cover the centre and wing spots.if they start Mckenzie at fullback, I'd like to see Barrett on the bench as cover, as he's had a lot of rugby this year

 

[Larksea]

yeah Lowe was kinda a joke selection and well silly me I forgot Ioane.

I do wonder how tempted they are with Jordie Barrett, unlikely but watching him play he just looks like a dead set All Black to me. I honestly think he would be fine given the chance.

I do think the selectors will go for Savea & Naholo on the wings. I dont like the combo though, Savea is out of form and Naholo isn't anywhere near his best since coming back from his injuries. And its a big ask to get Dagg to cover both their sorry arses.

At least with McKenzie there we would have a guy with genuine world class high ball skills and kicking game, fresh legs and a very high workrate.

I dont think we need to rush Crotty in if hes not 100, ALB and tamanivalu should be ok together. tamanivalu alone will add some punch to the attack we dont have with Fekitoa there.

We need some fresh legs involved. Franks, Coles, Read, Kaino all looked tired to me, Dagg is a bit low as well. Naholo is below his best. Savea is consistently inconsistent is the norm for him.

Retalick & Whitelock came back very strongly last week but they had massive workloads in that game, both played the full 80 because of Canes early injury.

I do wonder if adding Luatua somewhere is a good idea. He should be fairly fresh add to the lineout and he has a high workrate. Help make up for Read being below his best.

The selectors clearly like Scott Barrett, pretty sure they will be keen to give him another run.

Its probably right to say that Sopoaga does deserve a test start.

 

[Shaggy]

yeah Lowe was kinda a joke selection and well silly me I forgot Ioane.

I do wonder how tempted they are with Jordie Barrett, unlikely but watching him play he just looks like a dead set All Black to me. I honestly think he would be fine given the chance.

I do think the selectors will go for Savea & Naholo on the wings. I dont like the combo though, Savea is out of form and Naholo isn't anywhere near his best since coming back from his injuries. And its a big ask to get Dagg to cover both their sorry arses.

At least with McKenzie there we would have a guy with genuine world class high ball skills and kicking game, fresh legs and a very high workrate.

I dont think we need to rush Crotty in if hes not 100, ALB and tamanivalu should be ok together. tamanivalu alone will add some punch to the attack we dont have with Fekitoa there.

We need some fresh legs involved. Franks, Coles, Read, Kaino all looked tired to me, Dagg is a bit low as well. Naholo is below his best. Savea is consistently inconsistent is the norm for him.

Retalick & Whitelock came back very strongly last week but they had massive workloads in that game, both played the full 80 because of Canes early injury.

I do wonder if adding Luatua somewhere is a good idea. He should be fairly fresh add to the lineout and he has a high workrate. Help make up for Read being below his best.

The selectors clearly like Scott Barrett, pretty sure they will be keen to give him another run.

Its probably right to say that Sopoaga does deserve a test start.

I'm sure Jordie's time will come, but they'll probably give him time to bulk up a bit, and prove himself at super level first.

Any word on Kaino's availability yet, I'd like to see Squire get another run, possibly at No 8, but it won't happen, because with Ben Smith, and Sam Cane both out, they'll have to start Read as the Captain, unless they gave the Captaincy to Coles, but I don't think they'd do that in this match, as the players unavailable, are also or most experienced (our leaders).

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that both Savea and Naholo won't start on both wings, I think Naholo will start (because it's his turn), with perhaps Savea off the bench ... Perhaps McKenzie will start

Maybe Luatua will make the bench, but I think his spot is blocked by Scott Barrett and which ever one of the open sides that doesn't start.

 

[eidde]

Agree that the Savea and Naholo combo doesn't seem to work. V interested to see if they try to make it work anyway. Not sure that Ioane or Mckenzie are ready to start there yet, but can't see many other options - I'd like to see Naholo and Ioane on the wings and Dagg at fullback. I disagree that Dagg is out of form - I though he was brilliant on Saturday - made a number of critical tackles and created opportunities from nothing on at least two occasions where he delivered a pass back infield that was put down.

Agree Tamanivalu and ALB should start. Interesting pairing, could be fun to watch.

I'd love to see Sopoaga start, but I think Barrett will. TJP will probably start - not really anything for Smith to bother getting his confidence back for now - Hansen will let him do so over the Super Rugby season.

Our back row has been shown the way forward in terms of physicality by the Irish - they were phenomenal, and pretty much all the front foot ball Ireland got was the result of a storming run by an Irish loosie. We need more aggression here, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Akira Ioane may be it, provided he gets his workrate to a level the AB coaches are happy with. But even then, although he is an extremely powerful runner and must be pretty scary to face, I'd like to see both him and Ardie Savea develop some real aggression - pull off some real bone-crunching tackles and smash into contact with the ball - a bit more often. That hasn't picked us our backrow for the France test though, which I'm really not too sure on. Is Kaino back? If so he needs to start, and I'd say Read and Savea will fill it out. Maybe Luatua on bench.

Retallick and S Barrett will hopefully start, but more likely to be Whitelock. Having a Whitelock/Barret on the bench with Luatua will mean neither starting lock is forced to play the whole match.

Haven't been paying a lot of attention to the front row, but Crockett and Faumuina probably my starting props. Coles may be a bit tired, so Taylor or Coltman could get a run.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Is Kaino still out?

I like Luatua, he really gives it some and he's a big 'un.

I wouldn't put Fekitoa in the line up he will be ruled out by a citing for sure.

Larksea, what is this ongoing love affair you have with Mackenzie at full back? All I've seen of him so far makes him look like a scared skinny kid who is out of his depth. I'm not seeing Terry Wright here...

ALB can partner anyone, the kid plays hot, I'm a fan.

Be nice to see Sopoaga start but I doubt that will happen after Chicago.
The big issue here is the same problem we had from the third Bledisloe test onwards. I've been writing about it since then. The boys are knackered. Fatigue is a problem. You can't keep going to the well...

 

[nzlizard]

Backline I would like to see is

TJP
Cruden
Savea
Crotty
ALB
Naholo
Dagg

Bench

Smith
Barrett
Mckenzie / Tamanivalu

This gives fresher legs at 9,10, 12 and 14 from last test and keeps some experience on the field and on the bench.

In the forwards

Moody
Coles
Faumuina
Retallick
Whitelock
Kaino | Squire if Kaino is injured
Todd /Savea
Read

Bench

Franks
Taylor
Crockett
Barrett / Tuipulotu - most pron the latter for a bit more expereince or Luatua if you want lock and #8 cover
Savea / Todd

Retallick and Whitelock missed a couple of games and should be good to deliver again, Todd starting brings in fresh legs as does Faumuina to a lesser extent.

 

[FrenchFan]

Big hiding in store for les bleus. They have gone backwards under Noves. In his first year in charge the last selector had notched convincing win over Aus and placed 4th in 6N. This llot couldn't put away Aussie B side. Noves has done worse so far. He's flogging a dead horse IMO.

3 points about Noves since his appointment:

1. He hasn't assembled a world-class staff.
Many can't figure out how Gerald Bastide an U20 union coach with no previous exposure to pro rugby is in the staff. Bastide would not currently get a job in Top 14.

2. Team has showed little defensive shape.
This is France's weak point IMO. They are holes everywhere since last 6N. This is what you get for hiring a coaching debutante.

3. No leaders.
Made same point last season. Can't see how this has in any way changed. Guirado is a fine hooker but he's on his own as a captain. And a captain is only as good as his deputies. There's no one else around willing to stick their neck out.

For me this last point is the most damning. Defensive lapses can be fixed. But it's hard to conjure up leaders out of thin air when nobody's willing to step up. I would take an average team with leaders over anything else.

The French internationals are primed for league games, not test games. They can no longer bridge the gap given the demands of the test game. Their fitness regimen is geared towards playing club rugby.

 

[Makos]

We are usually notoriously bad in our final game of the season, tired and jaded. I have to agree about our player management a little as well, we need to be more mindful of our older players.

After that huge defensive effort vs Ireland, I think the guys will be stuffed. We need more fresh legs than anything

I'd like to see Todd and Ardie start this game. We will need energy in the backrow from the get go. Squire can come on later in the game for Todd.

Give Kaino an early holiday if he's been injured, no point pushing him back into the side for the final game, he's an older guy now and we need to treat his body with respect.

Start McKenzie, have faith in the kid.

Rieko Ioane should get a bench spot, can use him as centre and wing cover. I wouldn't mind seeing him start either.

I think it's important for Whitelock and Retallick to start, we need strong set pieces to control the match.

Give Naholo a run.

Franks needs an early holiday

 

[Bada-Bing!]

We are usually notoriously bad in our final game of the season, tired and jaded. I have to agree about our player management a little as well, we need to be more mindful of our older players.

After that huge defensive effort vs Ireland, I think the guys will be stuffed. We need more fresh legs than anything

I'd like to see Todd and Ardie start this game. We will need energy in the backrow from the get go. Squire can come on later in the game for Todd.

Give Kaino an early holiday if he's been injured, no point pushing him back into the side for the final game, he's an older guy now and we need to treat his body with respect.

Start McKenzie, have faith in the kid.

Rieko Ioane should get a bench spot, can use him as centre and wing cover. I wouldn't mind seeing him start either.

I think it's important for Whitelock and Retallick to start, we need strong set pieces to control the match.

Give Naholo a run.

Franks needs an early holiday

Apart from maybe Faumuina for Franks, Kaino returning, Crotty back at 12; Mackenzie to FB (personally I think Naholo and Savea on wings means an unbalanced back 3); Todd to start in place of Cane. I would think Hansen will keep the reaminder of the 15 the same. Bench wise Tu'ungasfasi to be one of the replacement props, Squire or S.Barrett for the 4th forward position; Ardie is still seen as more of an effective impact loose forward than starter by what Hansen has said. The 23 shirt likely to go to Fekitoa if he is not banned; otherwise Naholo who can cover wing and 13; ALB shifting to 12 if Crotty's hamstrings don't hold up.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Fekitoa with a 1 week ban. Ioane - 13? Please?

 

[Larksea]

Fekitoa is out with a 1 week ban.

I don't really agree with that, the kind of high tackle he did looks dramatic but they aren't dangerous, no concussion risk and don't even really hurt. No where near as bad as neck rolls and there was a fair bit of that going on.

That aside, as Ive said before I think Fekitoa holds our attacking game back. Good accuracy on defense but I'm happy to see someone else get a run. Seta would add some punch to the attack. Ioane likely to be in the 23 somewhere.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Only a week, he got off lightly

- - - Updated - - -

Tamanivalu at 13?

 

[eidde]

Whats the word on Crotty?

 

[Makos]

Apart from maybe Faumuina for Franks, Kaino returning, Crotty back at 12; Mackenzie to FB (personally I think Naholo and Savea on wings means an unbalanced back 3); Todd to start in place of Cane. I would think Hansen will keep the reaminder of the 15 the same. Bench wise Tu'ungasfasi to be one of the replacement props, Squire or S.Barrett for the 4th forward position; Ardie is still seen as more of an effective impact loose forward than starter by what Hansen has said. The 23 shirt likely to go to Fekitoa if he is not banned; otherwise Naholo who can cover wing and 13; ALB shifting to 12 if Crotty's hamstrings don't hold up.

What good does that do us? Really.

We have no records on the line, what we do have though are a lot of tired and injured players or players returning from injury.

We also have a lot of question marks over some players quality

Players that don't have enough experience and need some

If France are as bad as they claim, I'm sure a side like something we played vs Italy would win anyhow.

Even if we lose to France, who cares?

I'd like to see some of our younger guns get a shot at a big test match, fresh legs and ready to prove themselves. I also want to see some of our older guys rested before they do themselves some serious damage.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Isn't chucking in Mackenzie at full back enough? ABs have developed ALB as well who is still only 21. The best approach is still to integrate new players into a winning, experienced team. Italy was the game where the whole team was changed and players rested. Have not been convinced by Squire as Kaino's long term heir, he is still an 8 in my book. Forgot about Luatua. I think Hansen still wants to win the final test of the year.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd go for:
1. Crockett
2. Coles
3. Faumaina
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Luatua
7. Todd
8. Squire
9. Perenara
10. Cruden
11. Savea
12. ALB
13. Ioane
14. Dagg
15. McKenzie

16. Taylor
17. Tu'ungfasi
18. Franks
19. Tuipulotu
20. Savea
21. Smith
22. Barrett
23. Naholo

 

[Makos]

Isn't chucking in Mackenzie at full back enough? ABs have developed ALB as well who is still only 21. The best approach is still to integrate new players into a winning, experienced team. Italy was the game where the whole team was changed and players rested. Have not been convinced by Squire as Kaino's long term heir, he is still an 8 in my book. Forgot about Luatua. I think Hansen still wants to win the final test of the year.

Todd at openside and Ardie at blindside, with Squire coming off the bench is more than sufficient to compete with France.

I think you're missing my point about Kaino's fitness. Not rushing him back is important to his longevity. Of course he's still our best man, that's why I'd like to preserve him.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Even if we lose to France, who cares?

I'd like to see some of our younger guns get a shot at a big test match, fresh legs and ready to prove themselves. I also want to see some of our older guys rested before they do themselves some serious damage.

Absolutely agree.
W desperately need fresh legs.
We also need to blood more young talent and this may be the last chance before the Lions hit Whangarei.

- - - Updated - - -

Whats the point to take Sopoaga and keep him in the chilli bin