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Ode to the French Scrum

Big Ewis

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You know you're in trouble when you're making tribute vids about the past !! :lol:
Ode to the French scrum (2000-2014), some appreciation for a very dominant pack throughout the years...



PART II -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaGf-jf_aWQ
 
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Part III

 
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Oh man I enjoyed that. Some great battles there. Watched all three

Big E you're going to pay for my divorce...:lol:
 
Oh man I enjoyed that. Some great battles there. Watched all three

Big E you're going to pay for my divorce...:lol:

hahaaa !! If it's for this, my pleasure !
We had quite the front row(s) this past decade, ay....let's see what Slimani can bring this time around.
 
And for all that the sad thing is they're probably the biggest underachievers in international rugby for all their resources.
 
And for all that the sad thing is they're probably the biggest underachievers in international rugby for all their resources.

coming from you, that's disappointing muffin. This thread is just a way to convey the countless hours of work I've put into making those 5min units because I like my country's Rugby traditions and celebrate them.
 
the Irish butthurt brigade is out.......
 
hahaaa !! If it's for this, my pleasure !
We had quite the front row(s) this past decade, ay....let's see what Slimani can bring this time around.

Yeah Slimani and also Clement Ric

And we have 3 new young props from the academy who are getting regular game time now

Cyril Baille, Julien Marchand, Rodrigue Neti. They have the ability to displace Tialata and Kakovin this season.
 
I was totally disappointed with Ric for long, but he's starting to show really interesting things just this past season...and TH's aren't legion. I'm particularly interested by Baille and Marchand though from the ones you mention. They've shown me enough that they have my attention, and they're just teenagers !!

- - - Updated - - -

I should add Karim Bougherara here in Toulon has shown nice things too this season in the scrum. One to watch for the next couple of years.
 
coming from you, that's disappointing muffin. This thread is just a way to convey the countless hours of work I've put into making those 5min units because I like my country's Rugby traditions and celebrate them.

I fully agree they've a superb scrummaging technique and it is powerful when in full flow. Simply put and I'm sure you'd agree French rugby has underachieved considering they do have the tools. Big E your clips are good and show ye have a good scrum and I'm not saying ye are poor in this or any area.
 
well I wasn't going to actually answer that, and this is hardly the uhmm...hardly the thread for such a dialog to take place but since you insist. No I think France if anything have overachieved:
we came onto the world scene decades and decades after the home nations (counting that long break later) and have added our own style to the tournament with our very own French Flair. We've had much less time and yet count 9 Grand Slam ***les at times where everyone was competitive, against 6N best England's 12 (half of which they got during 1913 and 1928).

If you take France starting from when they actually knew how to play Rugby, we have a ridiculously one-sided record against Scotland and Ireland and a good one against Wales and England.
Out of 7 RWC's, we made the semi-final at least every time but one and made the final 3 times.

We're the only national side to have won a Test match series in NZ since the pro era (June 1994) and possess one of the best records against the SANZAR big 3.
And French clubs' success isn't negligible either.

That's pretty damn good all things considered.
This is an "Ode to the French Scrum" thread, scrums don't win you ***les and cups :p
And tbh since you bring it up, I'd say underachievers include Wales, Ireland and New Zealand for different reasons each.
 
well I wasn't going to actually answer that, and this is hardly the uhmm...hardly the thread for such a dialog to take place but since you insist. No I think France if anything have overachieved:
we came onto the world scene decades and decades after the home nations (counting that long break later) and have added our own style to the tournament with our very own French Flair. We've had much less time and yet count 9 Grand Slam ***les at times where everyone was competitive, against 6N best England's 12 (half of which they got during 1913 and 1928).

If you take France starting from when they actually knew how to play Rugby, we have a ridiculously one-sided record against Scotland and Ireland and a good one against Wales and England.
Out of 7 RWC's, we made the semi-final at least every time but one and made the final 3 times.

We're the only national side to have won a Test match series in NZ since the pro era (June 1994) and possess one of the best records against the SANZAR big 3.
And French clubs' success isn't negligible either.

That's pretty damn good all things considered.
This is an "Ode to the French Scrum" thread, scrums don't win you ***les and cups :p
And tbh since you bring it up, I'd say underachievers include Wales, Ireland and New Zealand for different reasons each.

But considering the strength of the game there and its domestic league. The amount playing the game at grassroots there compared to others and the fact ye have hosted 2 RWCs and still not won it. And I'd certainly agree that New Zealand have massively underachieved and Ireland from 2000 onwards have definitely underachieved
 
the weight and width of the Top 14 are detrimental to the xv de France, not beneficial. It's much better to have a small league with most main players all concentrated in one place at a time, like the Wallabies/Boks/All-Blacks have with their Super Rugby, like Ireland have with Leinster and a few in MUN/ULS, and the Welsh.

About winning World Cups, you don't just win because you're pretty good. You have to go through the Boks, All-Blacks, Wallabies or even England (which we have), Wales and Argentina of various eras. We managed to knock out all of Australia (when they were good), NZ (twice), should've beaten the Boks and England a couple of times, and before 2011 we'd never lost a game in the pools. Beating NZ in '99 was the biggest upset in pro sports history for me, it was miraculous with *that team* that year what we did, we couldn't produce two miracles in a row and AUS got us in the final.
Making the 1/2F every single time but one in 7 Cups ain't bad. We got runnerup 3 times, and 3rd best in '95. What underachievement...tisk.

We're inconsistent, and complicated. Capricious, and erratic. But we're the opposite of chokers, and we're not quite exactly 'underachievers'. Those last two labels go out to others, not us.

Anyways, you enjoy watching how Domingo picks up guys twice his size and sends them to an expedition in outer space ? Nice, eh ?
 
the weight and width of the Top 14 are detrimental to the xv de France, not beneficial. It's much better to have a small league with most main players all concentrated in one place at a time, like the Wallabies/Boks/All-Blacks have with their Super Rugby, like Ireland have with Leinster and a few in MUN/ULS, and the Welsh.

About winning World Cups, you don't just win because you're pretty good. You have to go through the Boks, All-Blacks, Wallabies or even England (which we have), Wales and Argentina of various eras. We managed to knock out all of Australia (when they were good), NZ (twice), should've beaten the Boks and England a couple of times, and before 2011 we'd never lost a game in the pools. Beating NZ in '99 was the biggest upset in pro sports history for me, it was miraculous with *that team* that year what we did, we couldn't produce two miracles in a row and AUS got us in the final.
Making the 1/2F every single time but one in 7 Cups ain't bad. We got runnerup 3 times, and 3rd best in '95. What underachievement...tisk.

We're inconsistent, and complicated. Capricious, and erratic. But we're the opposite of chokers, and we're not quite exactly 'underachievers'. Those last two labels go out to others, not us.

Anyways, you enjoy watching how Domingo picks up guys twice his size and sends them to an expedition in outer space ? Nice, eh ?

I guess we will agree to disagree.
 
I guess we will agree to disagree.

sure man, that's fine. When we win 9 more Grand Slams and get the next 3 World Cups by beating England, NZ, SA and AUS regularly, win a few more Test series against the AB and beat SA and AUS 6 more times each, in about 10-15 years maybe we'll start shifting towards the "average achievers" side of the scale.
Disagreement, agreeeeed.
 
sure man, that's fine. When we win 9 more Grand Slams and get the next 3 World Cups by beating England, NZ, SA and AUS regularly, win a few more Test series against the AB and beat SA and AUS 6 more times each, in about 10-15 years maybe we'll start shifting towards the "average achievers" side of the scale.
Disagreement, agreeeeed.

Or maybe just a World Cup. ☺️
I Irish and trust me I know moral victories don't do it. And since I'm on it you referenced there 2000-2014 which is where I'm saying ye hugely under achieved. It's 3 slams in 5 championships won but also a wooden spoon.
 
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I've taken the time to make this, so I hope you'll at least read all of it:

- In 2000, we beat NZ with a 1999-repeat, crazy score of 42-33 in Marseille despite being nothing on paper in comparison.
- 2001 we win a series over in S.A. after a mediocre 6N, and beat them and a prime Australia at home in November, and put 80 on Fiji.
- We beat England in 2002, quite easily (more than the score shows) and managed a Grand Slam in the midst of their prime. Beat S.A. in our all-time record 30-10. Then we tie against NZ when we absolutely should've won: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-OU3Xo_PEY

- 2003 We're the only team that gave England a fight, in Twickenham, and scored 3 tries to 1. We were right there the whole match and could've won if not for freakishly bad goal kicking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwT0wzU8XN4
We play a highly competitive game in Christchurch: 31-23. Excellent game.
In the 2003 World Cup we annihilated absolutely everyone (incl Ireland) until we met better than us, those same English, who were tactically superior to what Laporte was implementing.
- Following year, 2004, we win the Grand Slam. Incl 0-31 in Scotland. We beat a very good Australia at home, fairly well, but get SMASHED by NZ at home. One of our biggest flops in the pro era, the famous France inconsistency.
- 2005: we win our 3 away wins in Twickers, Dublin and Rome and come 2nd to Wales and their GS. We managed a draw in S.A. (30 all) and come close in Aus (37-31) in a super entertaining attacking game and then beat them at home quite comfortably (26-16), smash Canada, Tonga and then beat S.A. to make it a perfect November.
- 2006: 6N ***le. We smash England 31-6 and should've crushed Ireland by a record margin but this is the one we lead like 40-0 and Ireland storm back, the most classic case of France putting the foot off the pedal. Superb game IN S.A. we win 36-26. Nightmare in Lyon, NZ smash us 3-47. France are a farce for 80min once again, much better effort in Test 2 (11-23)
- 2007: second straight 6N ***le. Clerc scores the game-winner in Dublin, against an Irish team that was supposed to win the tournament. We beat England in both warmup games for the WC. We fall in the pool against Argentina, but manage a miracle against a seemingly invincible AB team. Then a freak try in the opening minutes and chasing the game for 75min and we lose to a realistic England at home at the WC. We completely botch our bronze medal game and ARG smashes us at home.
- 2008: bad year, Lièvremont's first: mediocre 6N, and we send a bad squad to Aus. November tour is fairly good.
- 2009: so-so 6N, followed by an under-control win in NZ in Test 1 (27-22), and Test series win over two matches losing narrowly (14-10) the second. Classic showdown in Toulouse vs the surging Boks (20-13) then smash a good Samoan side but then huge disillusion vs AB (12-39), disaster.
- 2010: Grand Slam but a year of Lièvremont's insanity: SMASHED in SA and ARG, November good games against Fiji and Argentina but then comedy play vs Wallabies at home (16-59). France just stopped playing after the 50th minute (when we were still tied 16 all).
- 2011: second at 6N. This is the one where we play like children and lose in Rome, awful awful. FB Masi had a gem of a game. Wins over Ireland both warmups, then mediocre pools for us, loss to Tonga where our guys are coaching themselves and just didn't want to play (even a Tongan player in an interview admitted France weren't interested). Big game against England, knock em out out of nowhere. Awful game vs Wales. Then if you've seen the final, then you know...

2012 to now is the PSA-era. We did win 4 straight matches from June to Nov '12, including a 33-6 thumping of the Wallabies, but that's individual class shining through. We've had no coaching since PSA came over, no gameplan, consistencies, serious strategies, a semblance of stability in lineup, etc...etc...and it's a miracle we managed a fine series in NZ 2013, gave them a game that November, and then beat England and took Ireland to the limit in 2014.

All this without mentioning we beat Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy almost every year, and by A LOT during that past decade.

I don't call that underachieving. It's what I've said: erratic, inconsistent, heads and hearts elsewhere, certainly. But not underachieving. Other nations have been underachievers, that's not us.
 
I've taken the time to make this, so I hope you'll at least read all of it:

- In 2000, we beat NZ with a 1999-repeat, crazy score of 42-33 in Marseille despite being nothing on paper in comparison.
- 2001 we win a series over in S.A. after a mediocre 6N, and beat them and a prime Australia at home in November, and put 80 on Fiji.
- We beat England in 2002, quite easily (more than the score shows) and managed a Grand Slam in the midst of their prime. Beat S.A. in our all-time record 30-10. Then we tie against NZ when we absolutely should've won: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-OU3Xo_PEY

- 2003 We're the only team that gave England a fight, in Twickenham, and scored 3 tries to 1. We were right there the whole match and could've won if not for freakishly bad goal kicking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwT0wzU8XN4
We play a highly competitive game in Christchurch: 31-23. Excellent game.
In the 2003 World Cup we annihilated absolutely everyone (incl Ireland) until we met better than us, those same English, who were tactically superior to what Laporte was implementing.
- Following year, 2004, we win the Grand Slam. Incl 0-31 in Scotland. We beat a very good Australia at home, fairly well, but get SMASHED by NZ at home. One of our biggest flops in the pro era, the famous France inconsistency.
- 2005: we win our 3 away wins in Twickers, Dublin and Rome and come 2nd to Wales and their GS. We managed a draw in S.A. (30 all) and come close in Aus (37-31) in a super entertaining attacking game and then beat them at home quite comfortably (26-16), smash Canada, Tonga and then beat S.A. to make it a perfect November.
- 2006: 6N ***le. We smash England 31-6 and should've crushed Ireland by a record margin but this is the one we lead like 40-0 and Ireland storm back, the most classic case of France putting the foot off the pedal. Superb game IN S.A. we win 36-26. Nightmare in Lyon, NZ smash us 3-47. France are a farce for 80min once again, much better effort in Test 2 (11-23)
- 2007: second straight 6N ***le. Clerc scores the game-winner in Dublin, against an Irish team that was supposed to win the tournament. We beat England in both warmup games for the WC. We fall in the pool against Argentina, but manage a miracle against a seemingly invincible AB team. Then a freak try in the opening minutes and chasing the game for 75min and we lose to a realistic England at home at the WC. We completely botch our bronze medal game and ARG smashes us at home.
- 2008: bad year, Lièvremont's first: mediocre 6N, and we send a bad squad to Aus. November tour is fairly good.
- 2009: so-so 6N, followed by an under-control win in NZ in Test 1 (27-22), and Test series win over two matches losing narrowly (14-10) the second. Classic showdown in Toulouse vs the surging Boks (20-13) then smash a good Samoan side but then huge disillusion vs AB (12-39), disaster.
- 2010: Grand Slam but a year of Lièvremont's insanity: SMASHED in SA and ARG, November good games against Fiji and Argentina but then comedy play vs Wallabies at home (16-59). France just stopped playing after the 50th minute (when we were still tied 16 all).
- 2011: second at 6N. This is the one where we play like children and lose in Rome, awful awful. FB Masi had a gem of a game. Wins over Ireland both warmups, then mediocre pools for us, loss to Tonga where our guys are coaching themselves and just didn't want to play (even a Tongan player in an interview admitted France weren't interested). Big game against England, knock em out out of nowhere. Awful game vs Wales. Then if you've seen the final, then you know...

2012 to now is the PSA-era. We did win 4 straight matches from June to Nov '12, including a 33-6 thumping of the Wallabies, but that's individual class shining through. We've had no coaching since PSA came over, no gameplan, consistencies, serious strategies, a semblance of stability in lineup, etc...etc...and it's a miracle we managed a fine series in NZ 2013, gave them a game that November, and then beat England and took Ireland to the limit in 2014.

All this without mentioning we beat Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy almost every year, and by A LOT during that past decade.

I don't call that underachieving. It's what I've said: erratic, inconsistent, heads and hearts elsewhere, certainly. But not underachieving. Other nations have been underachievers, that's not us.

Well. I would yes because again not a lot shown. As I said morale victories aren't in it and like Ireland at times in past beating a poor SH team doesn't tell whole story at times. Yes France produce 1 off displays but certainly underachieved.
 

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