Oscar Pistorius - Paralypic Gold Medalist, Shoots and Kills Girlfriend

[TRF_heineken]

Did not expect this to happen, Oscar all over the news.

Probably the right call, right?

Hein you seem clued up with law stuff.

Well, I got my LLB degree a few weeks ago...

 

[RedruthRFC]

Apparently, the female judge presiding at the original trial, who's verdict has been over turned, was extremely senior in the bench and retired after the trial but now has to come out of retirement to sentence him - so probably house arrest!

The irony of this struck me when I read about it earlier. I seem to recall that the trial was broadcast with the intent of demonstrating that the South African judicial system was up to doing its job. All of a sudden, it appears that it didn't and the person who presided over it is being brought back to have another go!

 

[valley commando]

The irony of this struck me when I read about it earlier. I seem to recall that the trial was broadcast with the intent of demonstrating that the South African judicial system was up to doing its job. All of a sudden, it appears that it didn't and the person who presided over it is being brought back to have another go!

It's difficult to grasp the way law works in other countries, look at the Meridith Kurcher case in Italy, and the aguido status in Spain as in the case of the McCanns.

 

[Tony Manx]

Well, I got my LLB degree a few weeks ago...

Congratulations H!!

Well done on passing your driving test, now the fun part of learning how to drive!!

Well done and enjoy the ride........!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

The irony of this struck me when I read about it earlier. I seem to recall that the trial was broadcast with the intent of demonstrating that the South African judicial system was up to doing its job. All of a sudden, it appears that it didn't and the person who presided over it is being brought back to have another go!

I don't think it's the full story. Judge Masipa, who was the judge in Oscar's trial isn't retired. She's just not hearing any cases at the moment. Partly because of the construction of the new High Court in my home town of Polokwane, where she started out as a magistrate in the lower courts. She has been picked to be in charge of the High Court when it's in operation, which is most likely to happen mid 2016.

Congratulations H!!

Well done on passing your driving test, now the fun part of learning how to drive!!

Well done and enjoy the ride........!!

Haha, thanx Tony, with great power comes great responsibility...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just to give you all an update, as this Saga is about to close.

Oscar Pistorius has been sentenced to 6 year imprisonment today.

Of which he has already sat 11 months before the judgment was overturned by the Supreme Court.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just to give you all an update, as this Saga is about to close.

Oscar Pistorius has been sentenced to 6 year imprisonment today.

Of which he has already sat 11 months before the judgment was overturned by the Supreme Court.

Haven't really kept up to date with this thread and apologies for being lazy and not reading if it's already been said but I had heard that he was facing a minimum sentence of 15 years in the media over here. Was that wrong or has something changed between the conviction and sentencing?

Edit: nevermind, just read the page before, would have been easier. Must teach our media here the difference between minimum and maximum!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Haven't really kept up to date with this thread and apologies for being lazy and not reading if it's already been said but I had heard that he was facing a minimum sentence of 15 years in the media over here. Was that wrong or has something changed between the conviction and sentencing?

Edit: nevermind, just read the page before, would have been easier. Must teach our media here the difference between minimum and maximum!

Murder has a minimum sentence of 15 years.

But the mitigating factors played a massive role in going away from the norm and changing the prescribed sentence for murder. In Oscar's case, him walking on his stumps in court played massively in his favour, and this was also how he walked at the time of the shooting. From what I've heard from other lawyers and Advocates, this was a lenient sentence as all of them thought that he would've gotten between 8 to 10 years.

The other thing is that Oscar won't sit the entire 6 years. He will have to complete at least a fifth of his sentence before he qualifies for parole. so the chance is there that we might hear something as early as next year about his parole.

 

[Bee]

Quite a bargain for a cold blooded slaughter of your girlfriend...

 

[SelimNiai]

What chance another appeal from the prosecution over the shorter sentence?

 

[Tony Manx]

Got off lightly.....

 

[gaston le gaff]

would the decision be the same if he was not handicapped or a para olmypic champion ????

 

[TRF_heineken]

Quite a bargain for a cold blooded slaughter of your girlfriend...

It's comments like this what makes me hate the media in this case. The court found him guilty of murdering a person dolus eventualis behind a bathroom door, and that it wasn't premeditated murder. The judge even said yesterday in her statement that the media and the public are wrong in their perception, and that Oscar did show remorse.

What chance another appeal from the prosecution over the shorter sentence?

Well, they now have 14 days to appeal, but it's highly unlikely that they'll be successful. First they will have to get past judge Masipa to grant them leave for appeal on her own sentencing judgement, and then the Supreme Courts of Appeal should rule on any legal grounds to dispute the sentence given. They might have had a case if his sentence was that of community service or house arrest.

Got off lightly.....

Perhaps. Technically they gave him 8 years imprisonment if we include the time he already served. And With this current sentence, he's only allowed to apply for parole after completing half of the sentence, unless there are other reasons to get him out of jail such as medical reasons.

The experts say that the judge gave a favourable judgement for Oscar, but that it was the most correct sentence she could've given based on her explanation and the arguments presented to her.

would the decision be the same if he was not handicapped or a para olmypic champion ????

Maybe

His disability played a big role in mitigation. But also played a massive role throughout the trial, and the reason why he reacted like he did on the night of the murder. He was on his stumps when he fired the shots, when he broke down the door with a cricket bat and when he heard the supposed noise in the bathroom.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I believe in forgiveness and 2nd chances but at the same time one has to face the consequences of your actions IE you can have remorse and still pay your price. In 6 months he could be out of prison again. Say what you want about the technicality of the law but it doesn't sit right with me. At the end of the day he knew there was a person behind a closed door and he fired 4 shots. That's about all I need to know.

 

[Bee]

It's comments like this what makes me hate the media in this case. The court found him guilty of murdering a person dolus eventualis behind a bathroom door, and that it wasn't premeditated murder. The judge even said yesterday in her statement that the media and the public are wrong in their perception, and that Oscar did show remorse.



Well, they now have 14 days to appeal, but it's highly unlikely that they'll be successful. First they will have to get past judge Masipa to grant them leave for appeal on her own sentencing judgement, and then the Supreme Courts of Appeal should rule on any legal grounds to dispute the sentence given. They might have had a case if his sentence was that of community service or house arrest.



Perhaps. Technically they gave him 8 years imprisonment if we include the time he already served. And With this current sentence, he's only allowed to apply for parole after completing half of the sentence, unless there are other reasons to get him out of jail such as medical reasons.

The experts say that the judge gave a favourable judgement for Oscar, but that it was the most correct sentence she could've given based on her explanation and the arguments presented to her.



Maybe

His disability played a big role in mitigation. But also played a massive role throughout the trial, and the reason why he reacted like he did on the night of the murder. He was on his stumps when he fired the shots, when he broke down the door with a cricket bat and when he heard the supposed noise in the bathroom.

As a South African, I might be biased, too. So much thrown onto a "hero"...
But remorse, closed doors etc does not make it a lesser murdering.
I am 100% convinced he knew what he did and who he shoot. And if not, shooting through closed doors without knowing who you are hitting does not make it better.
This sentence is ridiculous.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I believe in forgiveness and 2nd chances but at the same time one has to face the consequences of your actions IE you can have remorse and still pay your price. In 6 months he could be out of prison again. Say what you want about the technicality of the law but it doesn't sit right with me. At the end of the day he knew there was a person behind a closed door and he fired 4 shots. That's about all I need to know.

Only if there is a medical reason, otherwise he'll sit for 3 years minimum.

As a South African, I might be biased, too. So much thrown onto a "hero"...
But remorse, closed doors etc does not make it a lesser murdering.
I am 100% convinced he knew what he did and who he shoot. And if not, shooting through closed doors without knowing who you are hitting does not make it better.
This sentence is ridiculous.

As a South African, I'm going to ask all my fellow Saffas to answer this question:
We have all been victims to crime, some more gruesome than others, we see it on a daily basis and know that criminals are around every corner. What if it wasn't Reeva, but a thief that would've killed him if he had opened the door, would your mind change on the perception of Oscar?? Would he then be a hero that saved his own life in Self Defence?

I know why stormer2010 is saying what he's saying as he's also a father to a girl. But would your opinion have changed if Oscar was you child?

Remember that if you act in self defence, and kill a person, you could still be charged for murder, in that you will have to prove that you didn't unlawfully kill another person...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Only if there is a medical reason, otherwise he'll sit for 3 years minimum.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but that's exactly what I'm expecting. Oscar and his family has money and all it takes is getting the right 'consultant' on board. They've tried that angle (physical and mental health issues) and will continue trying it. We saw with Shaik who got of of jail free on the medical card of his imminent demise who spends his time dying on the golf course.

As a South African, I'm going to ask all my fellow Saffas to answer this question:
We have all been victims to crime, some more gruesome than others, we see it on a daily basis and know that criminals are around every corner. What if it wasn't Reeva, but a thief that would've killed him if he had opened the door, would your mind change on the perception of Oscar?? Would he then be a hero that saved his own life in Self Defence?

I know why stormer2010 is saying what he's saying as he's also a father to a girl. But would your opinion have changed if Oscar was you child?

Remember that if you act in self defence, and kill a person, you could still be charged for murder, in that you will have to prove that you didn't unlawfully kill another person...

That's exactly it for me. I can just imagine how Reeva's parents must feel, how cheap the system sees her life as being.

I understand the pressure persistent crime (on top of persecusion- real of percieved- as a 'demonized' minority in this country) puts on one. I've not been the victim of violent crime but I've been robbed and burgled semi-regularly. It does effect one I won't deny that and I know things are worse in Jo'burg and surrounds than it is where I live. The thing for me though is Oscar has a history of aggresion, abuse and gun related offenses. At the end of the day only Oscar will know the reality of the situation but I would be surprised if the mitigating factors involved here weren't fabricated and desperate attempts to 'get off light'.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but that's exactly what I'm expecting. Oscar and his family has money and all it takes is getting the right 'consultant' on board. They've tried that angle (physical and mental health issues) and will continue trying it. We saw with Shaik who got of of jail free on the medical card of his imminent demise who spends his time dying on the golf course.



That's exactly it for me. I can just imagine how Reeva's parents must feel, how cheap the system sees her life as being.

I understand the pressure persistent crime (on top of persecusion- real of percieved- as a 'demonized' minority in this country) puts on one. I've not been the victim of violent crime but I've been robbed and burgled semi-regularly. It does effect one I won't deny that and I know things are worse in Jo'burg and surrounds than it is where I live. The thing for me though is Oscar has a history of aggresion, abuse and gun related offenses. At the end of the day only Oscar will know the reality of the situation but I would be surprised if the mitigating factors involved here weren't fabricated and desperate attempts to 'get off light'.

He doesn't have a history of abuse. He does however have a history of aggression and gun related offences, yes. But that aggression is partly due to his disability, and is a form of showing frustration on his part in that he can't do much more than if he wasn't disabled.

But how much more punishment does one have to give to Oscar? he has been punished more times in the last 5 years than a serial rapist has ever been punished. The repeated punishments through the media, the court hearings, protesters, inmates etc... How is that fair? Getting off light is perhaps a term that isn't correctly applied in his case.

Our justice system isn't structured in just punishing a person for wrongdoing, but also to rehabilitate and to make him a member of society that can contribute positively.

 

[Cain]

Only if there is a medical reason, otherwise he'll sit for 3 years minimum.



As a South African, I'm going to ask all my fellow Saffas to answer this question:
We have all been victims to crime, some more gruesome than others, we see it on a daily basis and know that criminals are around every corner. What if it wasn't Reeva, but a thief that would've killed him if he had opened the door, would your mind change on the perception of Oscar?? Would he then be a hero that saved his own life in Self Defence?

I know why stormer2010 is saying what he's saying as he's also a father to a girl. But would your opinion have changed if Oscar was you child?

Remember that if you act in self defence, and kill a person, you could still be charged for murder, in that you will have to prove that you didn't unlawfully kill another person...

My perception of Oscar would not change if the above mentioned was a reality - He shot 4 shots through a door without establishing who is on the other side - As the law correctly points out , that is grossly negligent and in my personal opinion a true reflection of the guy. If he was so "scared and paranoid" why did he not press the panic button on his alarm? Why did he walk past the bedroom door (his only way of escaping) 3 times? Sure you can argue fight or flight but a normal person would wait until somebody actually comes out of the toilet door before firing the shots - I see it this way , either the prosecution had it spot on but lacked the evidence to support their case , or Oscar let his ego got the better of him and he wanted to play the "Hero" .... As a fellow South African we are aware of crime more than anybody else in the world , but logic also comes into play - the whole "I didn't see Reeva on the bed next to me" was a plain lie and we both know it - There is no way in hell that you walk out onto the patio , collect two fans , bring them inside without turning around at least once. Remember we are talking about somebody who "doesn't" have balance on his stumps , but you want to tell me that he was so confident on his stumps that he could bring a fan into the room by walking backwards without looking behind him even once? According to his own version he only heard the "window" after he had closed the curtains ..... I also find it interesting that he couldn't hear Reeva get out of bed (this is according to the pictures not even 1m away from him while he is supposedly walking backwards with the fans) to go to the toilet because the fans was so loud , yet he hears the window open 10m away from him above the fan noise and his first assumption is it's an intruder? Let's get serious here , if those fans were blowing in your face (his height was impaired) while you are walking backwards on your stumps and you heard a window open , you would turn to your partner and ask "did you hear that" to confirm what you heard. Hell instinct would even urge you to switch the fans off and listen if you can hear the noise again - Remember he was paranoid and more scared than the average Joe. His actions according to his version does not make sense , sure you can't prove it beyond and reasonable doubt and probably never will - But logic tells us that he acted very very very strange for somebody that had gun training , for somebody that was paranoid and scared , for somebody that was from a young age made aware of crime.

 

[TRF_heineken]

My perception of Oscar would not change if the above mentioned was a reality - He shot 4 shots through a door without establishing who is on the other side - As the law correctly points out , that is grossly negligent and in my personal opinion a true reflection of the guy. If he was so "scared and paranoid" why did he not press the panic button on his alarm? Why did he walk past the bedroom door (his only way of escaping) 3 times? Sure you can argue fight or flight but a normal person would wait until somebody actually comes out of the toilet door before firing the shots - I see it this way , either the prosecution had it spot on but lacked the evidence to support their case , or Oscar let his ego got the better of him and he wanted to play the "Hero" .... As a fellow South African we are aware of crime more than anybody else in the world , but logic also comes into play - the whole "I didn't see Reeva on the bed next to me" was a plain lie and we both know it - There is no way in hell that you walk out onto the patio , collect two fans , bring them inside without turning around at least once. Remember we are talking about somebody who "doesn't" have balance on his stumps , but you want to tell me that he was so confident on his stumps that he could bring a fan into the room by walking backwards without looking behind him even once? According to his own version he only heard the "window" after he had closed the curtains ..... I also find it interesting that he couldn't hear Reeva get out of bed (this is according to the pictures not even 1m away from him while he is supposedly walking backwards with the fans) to go to the toilet because the fans was so loud , yet he hears the window open 10m away from him above the fan noise and his first assumption is it's an intruder? Let's get serious here , if those fans were blowing in your face (his height was impaired) while you are walking backwards on your stumps and you heard a window open , you would turn to your partner and ask "did you hear that" to confirm what you heard. Hell instinct would even urge you to switch the fans off and listen if you can hear the noise again - Remember he was paranoid and more scared than the average Joe. His actions according to his version does not make sense , sure you can't prove it beyond and reasonable doubt and probably never will - But logic tells us that he acted very very very strange for somebody that had gun training , for somebody that was paranoid and scared , for somebody that was from a young age made aware of crime.

You are throwing in a lot of speculation in here, something not even the prosecution or the defence brought into consideration during the trial. It seems like you are saying that Oscar had some hearing disability too.

Let me tell what happened to me when I was 17. I was sleeping in my bed, and in the middle of the night, and got woken up by a noise at my window, when I opened my eyes to see what it was, there were 3 men with pangas (big ass knives) scraping the putty off the window. The next thing I knew was that I was in my parents room (which was about 25m away from my room and I had my dad's golf club in my hand. Shouting "Fokof" repeatedly. When my dad woke up from my screaming, he also went directly for his gun behind his bed and my mom pressed the panic button. So in that instance, I went for the flight and to some extent the fight option, my dad went for the fight option and my mom went for the flight option. Who was wrong?? There is no absolute answer.