Exactly why I love the game. Supporters are passionate yet respectful.
Maybe an intelligence thing, appreciate difference.
Remember the Palace football fan, who was berated for applauding a 'worldie' by the opposition.
In rugby, the supporters would be reminiscing it for years, even if was against them.
I'm not picking on Bath here, plenty of other teams have done it, but I hate seeing a clear second string and the game effectively thrown - wrap it up however you like but that's what it is. Way beyond reasonable rotation. Result never going to be in doubt, and the coaches know it even if they won't say so publicly.
Competition is the essence of sport and that was a total rip off for the paying spectator. Related, I've also been to a Sarries v Chiefs game at the end of an international period which was effectively a B team fixture, but at full price - I don't mind paying good money for a good product, but that really grated and lesson learned.
That it wasn't a rout on the scoreboard was a reflection of Tigers packing up for the year having got the job done early.
Best use of resources, focus on priorities / other matches yada yada. It's only a 10 team league, and a struggling league at that. Not withstanding an excellent crowd - well done Tigers, but presumably most tickets sold well before teams announced - that is not a way to help put new bums on seats.
I think 18 games in the league is perfect for clubs to be able to field full strength teams.
The only issue is the mixed up fixture list, if it was all played in blocks it would be far easier.
I think 18 games in the league is perfect for clubs to be able to field full strength teams.
The only issue is the mixed up fixture list, if it was all played in blocks it would be far easier.
You can, but you'll get a better season-long performance by not doing so. Attrition is a big thing in rugby; physical and mental.
Agreed on blocks - but it's really tough to do, especially if we start late due to the RWC.
We need blocks, but apparently, blocks of 2 matches for Europe (blocks of 3 would be better IMO, but then, there's A LOT I'd change about that tournament!)
We don't want to play club rugby during the AIs and 6N - but we don't want to go a full month, let alone 2 without a home gate.
We want an A-league / Academy league, but we don't want enough players to make one viable.
We all have our favoured solutions, and all of them are compromised, and most of us dislike other peoples' favoured solutions.
FTR: My favoured solution is Europe having 3 tiers of 16 teams, each with 4 pools of 4 - pool stages played in 2 blocks of 3 matches
Prem Rugby Cup to be 5 pools of 4 (assuming a 10 team Prem2), 3 matches during the AIs, 3 matches during the 6N, then KO matches during the 6N)
I'd have a week off for English rugby 1st week of December and 1st 6N rest weekend.
Starting September 1st:
Sept 03: Prem 1
Sept 10: Prem 2
Sept 17: Prem 3
Sept 24: Prem 4
Oct 01: Prem 5
Oct 08: Europe 1
Oct 15: Europe 2
Oct 22: Europe 3
REST WEEK
Nov 05: AI1 & PRC 1
Nov 12: AI2 & PRC 2
Nov 19: AI3 & PRC 3
Nov 26: Prem 6
Dec 03: Prem 7
Dec 10: Prem 8
Dec 17: Prem 9
Dec 24: Prem 10
Dec 31: Europe 4
Jan 07: Europe 5
Jan 14: Europe 6
Jan 21: 6N training & PRC 4
Jan 28: 6N1 & PRC 5
Feb 04: 6N2 & PRC 6
REST WEEK
Feb 18: 6N3 & PRC 1/4
Feb 25: 6N rest & Prem 11
Mar 04: 6N4 & PRC 1/2
Mar 11: 6N5 & PRC Final
Mar 18: Prem 12
Mar 25: Prem 13
April 01: Prem 14
April 08: Prem 15
April 15: Europe 1/4
REST WEEK
April 29: Prem 16
May 06: Prem 17
May 13: Prem 18
May 20: Prem 1/2
May 27: Europe 1/2
June 03: Prem Final
June 10: Europe Final
Exactly why I love the game. Supporters are passionate yet respectful.
Maybe an intelligence thing, appreciate difference.
Remember the Palace football fan, who was berated for applauding a 'worldie' by the opposition.
In rugby, the supporters would be reminiscing it for years, even if was against them.
Dombrandt's woeful performance against France is still burned into my brain. I just don't think he's up to international standard. It's not a small sample size either. I struggle to think of one England game where he's stood out.
I think we have to look at Barbeary and behind him maybe Cunningham-South.
I'm not picking on Bath here, plenty of other teams have done it, but I hate seeing a clear second string and the game effectively thrown - wrap it up however you like but that's what it is. Way beyond reasonable rotation. Result never going to be in doubt, and the coaches know it even if they won't say so publicly.
Competition is the essence of sport and that was a total rip off for the paying spectator. Related, I've also been to a Sarries v Chiefs game at the end of an international period which was effectively a B team fixture, but at full price - I don't mind paying good money for a good product, but that really grated and lesson learned.
That it wasn't a rout on the scoreboard was a reflection of Tigers packing up for the year having got the job done early.
Best use of resources, focus on priorities / other matches yada yada. It's only a 10 team league, and a struggling league at that. Not withstanding an excellent crowd - well done Tigers, but presumably most tickets sold well before teams announced - that is not a way to help put new bums on seats.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of it creating a poor game and not ideal, I doubt any of us are really able to quantify what a reasonable level of rotation is, talks of squad sizes decreasing, injury possibilities, international call ups and European cups all have to be factored in. Without putting an arbitrary % on it I'd probably be fully loaded most of the season and drop a good chunk completely for games which are going to be tough away physical encounters which may well lead to more injuries and or attrition, it's a marathon not a sprint so yes it's probably wise to be non competitive in a game or two but get top four, which to me overall is more competitive.
You can, but you'll get a better season-long performance by not doing so. Attrition is a big thing in rugby; physical and mental.
Agreed on blocks - but it's really tough to do, especially if we start late due to the RWC.
We need blocks, but apparently, blocks of 2 matches for Europe (blocks of 3 would be better IMO, but then, there's A LOT I'd change about that tournament!)
We don't want to play club rugby during the AIs and 6N - but we don't want to go a full month, let alone 2 without a home gate.
We want an A-league / Academy league, but we don't want enough players to make one viable.
We all have our favoured solutions, and all of them are compromised, and most of us dislike other peoples' favoured solutions.
FTR: My favoured solution is Europe having 3 tiers of 16 teams, each with 4 pools of 4 - pool stages played in 2 blocks of 3 matches
Prem Rugby Cup to be 5 pools of 4 (assuming a 10 team Prem2), 3 matches during the AIs, 3 matches during the 6N, then KO matches during the 6N)
I'd have a week off for English rugby 1st week of December and 1st 6N rest weekend.
Starting September 1st:
Sept 03: Prem 1
Sept 10: Prem 2
Sept 17: Prem 3
Sept 24: Prem 4
Oct 01: Prem 5
Oct 08: Europe 1
Oct 15: Europe 2
Oct 22: Europe 3
REST WEEK
Nov 05: AI1 & PRC 1
Nov 12: AI2 & PRC 2
Nov 19: AI3 & PRC 3
Nov 26: Prem 6
Dec 03: Prem 7
Dec 10: Prem 8
Dec 17: Prem 9
Dec 24: Prem 10
Dec 31: Europe 4
Jan 07: Europe 5
Jan 14: Europe 6
Jan 21: 6N training & PRC 4
Jan 28: 6N1 & PRC 5
Feb 04: 6N2 & PRC 6
REST WEEK
Feb 18: 6N3 & PRC 1/4
Feb 25: 6N rest & Prem 11
Mar 04: 6N4 & PRC 1/2
Mar 11: 6N5 & PRC Final
Mar 18: Prem 12
Mar 25: Prem 13
April 01: Prem 14
April 08: Prem 15
April 15: Europe 1/4
REST WEEK
April 29: Prem 16
May 06: Prem 17
May 13: Prem 18
May 20: Prem 1/2
May 27: Europe 1/2
June 03: Prem Final
June 10: Europe Final
Nice.
Would swap Prem final with Euro 1/2, to give a 2 match series there, and the fact that the Euro final 4 could be played at one venue, like a mini tournament.
With regard to internationals, I would move the summer tour and AI into one block in Sept and Oct and start season in Nov, and would also only have 6 week 6N.
Finally, whatever system fir Europe only have 4 group matches.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of it creating a poor game and not ideal, I doubt any of us are really able to quantify what a reasonable level of rotation is, talks of squad sizes decreasing, injury possibilities, international call ups and European cups all have to be factored in. Without putting an arbitrary % on it I'd probably be fully loaded most of the season and drop a good chunk completely for games which are going to be tough away physical encounters which may well lead to more injuries and or attrition, it's a marathon not a sprint so yes it's probably wise to be non competitive in a game or two but get top four, which to me overall is more competitive.
I get why it's done, but it's poor value for those that are stumping up their hard earned whether in the stands or on the sofa.
One way around it might be to nominate a first choice 23 at the start of the season half of whom (OK I know that's 11.5…) have to be in every match day squad with at least 7 starting. This could be adjusted for legitimate injuries and guarantees that fans will see at least some of the big names every time.
I get why it's done, but it's poor value for those that are stumping up their hard earned whether in the stands or on the sofa.
One way around it might be to nominate a first choice 23 at the start of the season half of whom (OK I know that's 11.5…) have to be in every match day squad with at least 7 starting. This could be adjusted for legitimate injuries and guarantees that fans will see at least some of the big names every time.
As I said I agree with your sentiments but don't think you are really in a position to make a sweeping statement like beyond normal rotation, I don't like it and know it devalues that specific game, if that however translates to a better chance of making the play offs it's a bit of a no brainer. Arguably we have prem cup games but maybe some fixtures should be treated in a similar vein if there not Derby's, I get that, that would also be unfair you are asking a team specifically to potentially sacrifice a home game, there really isn't a perfect solution. The more internationals you have the more the issue is amplified. Having fewer games with all key personnel playing doesn't help with cohecity either, some teams need a lot more game time if their game plan more complex.
He's been absolutely superb this season. Noticably bigger and quicker while still exhibiting the playmaking skills and nouse that first marked him out. Starting from a clean slate he would be right in the mix for the next squad but suspect he may be too unfashionable a selection.
I've been guilty of making the odd joke about Furbank but I'd have no issue with him being reintroduced to the squad. In reality he had those 2 6N games in 2020 in which he made a few errors but was a far cry from being bad. Then the instances that really put people off of him were when he got started at 10 over Smith and when Steward got shifted to the wing to accommodate him but neither of those are Furbank's fault at all. He's playing the best rugby he's ever played right now and personally I am quite partial to 15 being a playmaker so I'd be happy to see him given another go.
He's been absolutely superb this season. Noticably bigger and quicker while still exhibiting the playmaking skills and nouse that first marked him out. Starting from a clean slate he would be right in the mix for the next squad but suspect he may be too unfashionable a selection.
I'd love to see him involved. Steward was poor during the WC I thought. Furbank should be in the squad as direct competition. I hope we don't go down the Marcus Smith at 15 road again.
Stewards had his own poor showings, personally I like FBs as play makers and to be nimble with a turning circle better than a bus, if England had a proven nailed on 15 I'd be less inclined to look at other options Steward is ok ish in a very limited game plan but don't think he suites anything more expansive, further to that I don't think he is as reliable under the high ball as he was made out to be, very good but not sure he's among the best.
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