Rate Tier 1 nations in order

[Jbobo]

Rankings (based on capability of actually winning a World Cup over all time into the far distant future)

1. SA (if they shake off the white supremacists)
2. Eng (if they get rid of the old boys clubs).
3. Fra (if they have some decent luck)
4. Arg (if they keep growing)
5. Aus (if they keep being awesome)
6. NZ (if they keep being awesome)
7. Irl (if they're patient)
8. Ita (if they're very patient)
9. Wal (if they're lucky)
10. USA (if the game keeps growing there)
( I really don't see any other possibilities) The game is diminishing in some countries.

Actual rankings based on who I feel are the best teams right now, in reality...:

1. NZ
2. Aus
3. Fra
4. Irl
5. Wal
6. Eng
7. SA
8. Arg
9. Sco
10. Ita

I base my seedings above on who can beat anyone on their day and has some consistency at this moment in time.

I'm frightened

 

[chippieolamus]

1) NZ
2) Boks
3) Wallabies/Ireland/England
4) Wallabies/Ireland/England
5) Wallabies/Ireland/England
6) Wales
7) France
8) Argentina/Scotland
9) Argentina/Scotland
10) Italy
Now, people are going to say I'm biased for putting England and Aus equal with Ireland, however people forget that England have Corbs, Cole, Launchbury and Tuilagi out a the moment, all of whom are key players, and I would argue that with all of those fit we would have beaten SA at Twickers a week ago. I know that Ireland beat Aus this weekend, but I'd say that Aus would probably win at home. So, it's kinda hard to separate those three, as I think that each would beat the other at home.
Now come at me Ireland fans

 

[Jbobo]

1) NZ
2) Boks
3) Wallabies/Ireland/England
4) Wallabies/Ireland/England
5) Wallabies/Ireland/England
6) Wales
7) France
8) Argentina/Scotland
9) Argentina/Scotland
10) Italy
Now, people are going to say I'm biased for putting England and Aus equal with Ireland, however people forget that England have Corbs, Cole, Launchbury and Tuilagi out a the moment, all of whom are key players, and I would argue that with all of those fit we would have beaten SA at Twickers a week ago. I know that Ireland beat Aus this weekend, but I'd say that Aus would probably win at home. So, it's kinda hard to separate those three, as I think that each would beat the other at home.
Now come at me Ireland fans

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You're not Welsh are you by any chance?

 

[chippieolamus]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You're not Welsh are you by any chance?

Luckily enough, no

 

[Jbobo]

Luckily enough, no

Ha!

But seriously, saying that if you weren't missing a few players you would have beaten the Bokks even though you haven't since 2006, is like me saying Wales would have beaten Australia any of those times we were missing players - You don't know how the opposition would have reacted with those players. With different players on the pitch for either team, SA may not have had that yellow card as the game would have been different no matter how slightly - In that case you can take two England tries off the scoreboard there possibly.

You know what i mean?

 

[William18]

Australia barely deserve to be in the top 5. No ideas how they're still there. The All Blacks are just unstoppable, and frankly the game's up. If the All Blacks were to lose the next 1000 games in a row, they'd still literally be the best team in Rugby Union history.

Of course Australia deserve to be top 5. Look at the teams below them: France, Wales and Argentina. Australia have won the last 10 against Wales, 9 of the last 10 against Argentina and 8 of the last 10 against France. I actually still reckon Australia are a better team than Ireland. I think if Australia were to play Ireland 5 times at a neutral venue it would probably end up 3-2 Australia. Ireland definitely deserve to be 3rd in the rankings because their results have been incredible. However, the rankings only look at past results and aren't always a good predictor of the future.

 

[chippieolamus]

Ha!

But seriously, saying that if you weren't missing a few players you would have beaten the Bokks even though you haven't since 2006, is like me saying Wales would have beaten Australia any of those times we were missing players - You don't know how the opposition would have reacted with those players. With different players on the pitch for either team, SA may not have had that yellow card as the game would have been different no matter how slightly - In that case you can take two England tries off the scoreboard there possibly.

You know what i mean?

Yeah, I get your drift, I probably should have phrased it better. Personally, I think that if England and SA both had everyone fit and played a match at Twickenham, I'd back us 60:40 to win. Of course, that will probably never happen, and you could say that for a lot of the Northern Hemisphere sides vs Southern Hemisphere. On a side note, is it me or do the SH teams seem to have lots less injuries at the moment than the NH teams?

 

[ENZED-88]

1 NZ
2 SA
3 Aus
4 Ire
5 England
6 Argentina
7 France
8 Wales
9 Scotland
10 Italy

Even though the saffa's got beaten by a good irish outfit I think the boks an AB are still a fair bit better than the rest. Come WC time If Aus has sorted their **** out they would be well an truly in contention, same with France, but out of all teams I think the pumas have the most potential when the 2019 RWC rolls around

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

1) NZ
2) Boks
3) Wallabies/Ireland/England
4) Wallabies/Ireland/England
5) Wallabies/Ireland/England
6) Wales
7) France
8) Argentina/Scotland
9) Argentina/Scotland
10) Italy
Now, people are going to say I'm biased for putting England and Aus equal with Ireland, however people forget that England have Corbs, Cole, Launchbury and Tuilagi out a the moment, all of whom are key players, and I would argue that with all of those fit we would have beaten SA at Twickers a week ago. I know that Ireland beat Aus this weekend, but I'd say that Aus would probably win at home. So, it's kinda hard to separate those three, as I think that each would beat the other at home.
Now come at me Ireland fans

Just like Healy, Best (for SA), O'Brien, Henry (for Aus), Trimble, Moore, Henderson were out? All are key players too? Not even mentioning Earls and Fitzgerald both Lions wingers, as well as Payne vs Aus. Also remember we were fielding an extremely experimental centre partnership, a total of 6 caps in the centre - both players playing out of position.
Fact of the matter is no team will consistently have a full strength team. Even then I'd disagree that England have a better team than Ireland - we have stronger leadership imo and most importantly a fantastic 9 and 10 with 3 very good back ups to choose from.

Of course Australia deserve to be top 5. Look at the teams below them: France, Wales and Argentina. Australia have won the last 10 against Wales, 9 of the last 10 against Argentina and 8 of the last 10 against France. I actually still reckon Australia are a better team than Ireland. I think if Australia were to play Ireland 5 times at a neutral venue it would probably end up 3-2 Australia. Ireland definitely deserve to be 3rd in the rankings because their results have been incredible. However, the rankings only look at past results and aren't always a good predictor of the future.

I agree with most of this, however I would disagree with the 5 times fixture at this moment in time. Evident with our first 'big' game under Schmidt we got beat well, it just takes time for the coaching set up to get into place. We have a very settled squad now with some real threat. Give Australia some time too and yeah I think they probably will retain the 3rd spot.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just like Healy, Best (for SA), O'Brien, Henry (for Aus), Trimble, Moore, Henderson were out? All are key players too? Not even mentioning Earls and Fitzgerald both Lions wingers, as well as Payne vs Aus. Also remember we were fielding an extremely experimental centre partnership, a total of 6 caps in the centre - both players playing out of position.
Fact of the matter is no team will consistently have a full strength team. Even then I'd disagree that England have a better team than Ireland - we have stronger leadership imo and most importantly a fantastic 9 and 10 with 3 very good back ups to choose from.



I agree with most of this, however I would disagree with the 5 times fixture at this moment in time. Evident with our first 'big' game under Schmidt we got beat well, it just takes time for the coaching set up to get into place. We have a very settled squad now with some real threat. Give Australia some time too and yeah I think they probably will retain the 3rd spot.

Healy Best(For SA) Moore add James Cronin and Nathan White
Donnacha Ryan and McCarthy (For Aus)
SOB Henry Henderson (should be lock)
9/10 we were ok
McFadden/Payne (For Aus) and Marshall
Earls Luke Fitz and Trimble not a bad list of missing.

 

[Jbobo]

Healy Best(For SA) Moore add James Cronin and Nathan White
Donnacha Ryan and McCarthy (For Aus)
SOB Henry Henderson (should be lock)
9/10 we were ok
McFadden/Payne (For Aus) and Marshall
Earls Luke Fitz and Trimble not a bad list of missing.

Form is very fickle, for teams and players. I'll just make that point. Also remember your coach, he's obviously changed the team no bounds. Incredible change of fortunes.

Edit - Not worth the inevitable wrath of Irish to say anything more...

 

[Bean]

Because that England, France and Wales are as inconsistent as them.

Stop being a stupid Kiwi who only criticizes against their cousins

:| So you agree then.

 

[Amiga500]

1 NZ
2 SA
3 Aus
4 Ire
5 England
6 Argentina
7 France
8 Wales
9 Scotland
10 Italy

This probably isn't far away.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

1) NZ
2) Boks
3) Wallabies/Ireland/England
4) Wallabies/Ireland/England
5) Wallabies/Ireland/England
6) Wales
7) France
8) Argentina/Scotland
9) Argentina/Scotland
10) Italy
Now, people are going to say I'm biased for putting England and Aus equal with Ireland, however people forget that England have Corbs, Cole, Launchbury and Tuilagi out a the moment, all of whom are key players, and I would argue that with all of those fit we would have beaten SA at Twickers a week ago. I know that Ireland beat Aus this weekend, but I'd say that Aus would probably win at home. So, it's kinda hard to separate those three, as I think that each would beat the other at home.
Now come at me Ireland fans

Yeah, I get your drift, I probably should have phrased it better. Personally, I think that if England and SA both had everyone fit and played a match at Twickenham, I'd back us 60:40 to win. Of course, that will probably never happen, and you could say that for a lot of the Northern Hemisphere sides vs Southern Hemisphere. On a side note, is it me or do the SH teams seem to have lots less injuries at the moment than the NH teams?

Just FYI a list of the SA unavaiable players:

3 - 1st and 2nd; both our up-and-commers that have been starting ahead of JdP when fit; Frans Malherbe the undefeated and Marcel van der Merwe, so missing a 1st choice TH
4 - no one critical but Flip van der Merwe has been good for us the last year before injury
5 - 1st choice PSdT
6 - 1st choice Francois Louw
7 - 1st and 2nd choice Willem Alberts and Arno Botha
9 - 1st choice Fourie du Preez
12 - Frans Steyn though I won't count him 1st choice with JdV being captain
13 - Jaque Fourie probably was our 1st choice at the start of the season

Just saying if we are fielding fantasy teams we should allow both sides to field fantasy teams. The rest of our inured I won't count here as they merely make up the depth (Schalk Brits and the like).

 

[Jaguares]

:| So you agree then.

I don't think that Ireland deserves the third place. They weren't dominant against Australia, at times they were dominated by Wobs. And they come from a looooong process with the same head coach, while Australia has a new head coach.

England is another candidate to third place but also are criticized by the English themselves.

I'm waiting the next week to give my final verdict, I don't see strong even to the Springboks. The only undisputed at this moment is NZ, then there is a group of teams where anyone can beat anyone, except for Wales when face the Tri Nations

Until last week, France was another candidate to third place, but were defeated by the Pumitas (Argentina Under 20) at home and now nobody talks about them

 

[Jbobo]

I don't think that Ireland deserves the third place. They weren't dominant against Australia, at times they were dominated by Wobs. And they come from a looooong process with the same head coach, while Australia has a new head coach.

England is another candidate to third place but also are criticized by the English themselves.

I'm waiting the next week to give my final verdict, I don't see strong even to the Springboks. The only undisputed at this moment is NZ, then there is a group of teams where anyone can beat anyone, except for Wales when face the Tri Nations

Until last week, France was another candidate to third place, but were defeated by the Pumitas (Argentina Under 20) at home and now nobody talks about them

Haven't heard that one in so long! *slow claps*

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think that Ireland deserves the third place. They weren't dominant against Australia, at times they were dominated by Wobs. And they come from a looooong process with the same head coach, while Australia has a new head coach.

England is another candidate to third place but also are criticized by the English themselves.

I'm waiting the next week to give my final verdict, I don't see strong even to the Springboks. The only undisputed at this moment is NZ, then there is a group of teams where anyone can beat anyone, except for Wales when face the Tri Nations

Until last week, France was another candidate to third place, but were defeated by the Pumitas (Argentina Under 20) at home and now nobody talks about them

I think at this present time Ireland deserve 3rd spot, Schmidt has been head coach for 13 matches now and has won 10. Of those 13 matches Ireland have played every other tier 1 nation and have beaten all apart from England and New Zealand who they lost to by a total of 5 points with the only bad performance coming against Australia in his match against a competitive side. I fully expect that in the next 12 months Ireland will beat England and they'll have another crack at New Zealand in what could be a career defining game for Schmidt as Ireland coach. England, Australia and France all have a higher potential in terms of where they could be with their players but no coach in World rugby has the ability to get the potential out of his teams like Schmidt does and that's why Ireland are sitting happy in third place while every other tier 1 nation below them, apart from Scotland, appear to be in turmoil.

 

[chippieolamus]

Just FYI a list of the SA unavaiable players:

3 - 1st and 2nd; both our up-and-commers that have been starting ahead of JdP when fit; Frans Malherbe the undefeated and Marcel van der Merwe, so missing a 1st choice TH
4 - no one critical but Flip van der Merwe has been good for us the last year before injury
5 - 1st choice PSdT
6 - 1st choice Francois Louw
7 - 1st and 2nd choice Willem Alberts and Arno Botha
9 - 1st choice Fourie du Preez
12 - Frans Steyn though I won't count him 1st choice with JdV being captain
13 - Jaque Fourie probably was our 1st choice at the start of the season

Just saying if we are fielding fantasy teams we should allow both sides to field fantasy teams. The rest of our inured I won't count here as they merely make up the depth (Schalk Brits and the like).

Sigh. Seeing Schalk as a reserve/back up player kills me, I'd love to have him playing for England

 

[Kiwi_]

1.NZ
2.SA
3.Ireland
4.Aus
5.Wales
6.England
7.Argentina
8.France
9.Scotland
10.Italy

Come world cup I can see it being

1.SA
2.NZ
3.England
4.Ireland/Aus/Wales

 

[chippieolamus]

1.NZ
2.SA
3.Ireland
4.Aus
5.Wales
6.England
7.Argentina
8.France
9.Scotland
10.Italy

Come world cup I can see it being

1.SA
2.NZ
3.England
4.Ireland/Aus/Wales

Why Wales above England?