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Rugby World Cup 2019 Japan will be the Worst Wcup ever in history.

He was our best flyhalf ever and we've been lacking sorely at the position since he retired. But like you say, he learned his rugby in Australia.

Could you provide some examples? I'd say a company like AEG owning a number of MLS soccer teams at one time is a lot different than the Japanese model.

Well you could look at the Philidelphia Flyers' in the NHL or the 76ers which were both bought by Comcast. In the US there is a tendancy for sports teams to receve part ownership by media companies so they get further control in broadcasting rights. With that said I think it would be difficult to find too many sports teams where teams the 'ownership groups' only consist of individual investors.

There aren't 450,000 registered players. There are 450,000 players (note the IRB links for both the US and Japan say "registered+unregistered"). In my experience in American rugby, teams only register their players (CIPP) if they absolutely need to. Most teams I've played on don't bother registering guys who would never play for the firsts as you only get penalized for not registering players if they play in the playoffs/league matches. This is particularly true at the college and high school levels where "B-side" matches are largely informal affairs. Additionally, there are guys who go and play a couple 7s tournaments in the summer but never register with USA Rugby. But even in spite of that, starting a professional rugby competition in the US would require a massive investment. Let's say you go with a squad of 30 players and you have 8 teams and the average salary is a meager $40,000/year and the coaching staff is paid a combined $60,000/team. That's over $10 million in salaries alone, before you even start renting stadiums, paying for the necessary marketing and travel. And of course travel is expensive in the US because the country is so massive. Expecting USA Rugby, a union that had an operating budget of just over $10 million last year, to be able to foot that kind bill is just not realistic. Again, I'll refer you back to my plan which would slowly transition from amateur rugby to semi-pro rugby to professional rugby.

Ahh, this is really the confusion. So I can assume then that the number of registed players is 115,000 (according to the report you provided in this post, cheers) or just above in th United States where almost all players in Japan are registered (based on the IRB report).

Romania's union has taken a turn for the better since the 2011 RWC and now have a number of excellent initiatives. Rugby in Romania has a long history and it also benefits from a low cost of living (players don't need to be paid as much) and the distances between the cities are nothing like the US. Russia is a more interesting case as it is a massive country and its teams are somewhat spread out (Krasnoyarsk to Moscow is quite a journey), but it's my understanding that the clubs there are at odds with the RUR and the RUR didn't have much to do with professional rugby happening.

Having a relatively weak economy doesn't seem like it would make it easier to have a professional league. Romania interest in rugby has only decreased since professionalism and yet the SuperLiga has remained professional. Just seems very strange. I guess the U.S just hasn't yet found a sponsor willing to fully take that shot just yet.

By the way, you might be interested in this: http://usarugby.org/documentation/USA_Rugby_Strategic_Plan_2013-2015.pdf

Some of the goals are a little high, while others seem a little low but it has a lot of information you might find interesting.

Was interesting read, still fairly unspecific on a XV's men professional league.
 
Well the company model has players all registered as employees of the club, which means they often have secondary jobs. But regardless the general model of having companies own teams is not unique at all - and I'd assume is what USAR rugby is waiting for, hoping companies essentially invest in the league.

I don't understand though how 450,000 players can be registed, presumably all paying fees, and USAR can't afford to run a professional league. Is there really such a shift from numbers playing rugby to people willing to pay to watch rugby? Or rather why is it than unions which are worse such as Romania/Russia are able to field professional teams?

nickdnz, the USA rugby is indeed better run than Japan. Japan have the best resources of any Tier 2 nation and are the closest to Tier 1 in this regard, but for a nation that can afford top quality coaches like Eddie Jones, can host New Zealand and have their players available with good preparation they really do underachieve mostly due to an abysmal system for developing their young players and to a smaller degree an insular conservative culture amongst the JRFU that doesn't send players abroad enough to learn.

Off the field as well, the interest in the game has slowly declined from the 1970's where they had good crowds and it has decreased in the professional age. The fans turn up for established nations like New Zealand or Wales games, but for games against Tonga or Samoa level sides they get around just 6,000 that is indeed quite worrying for a nation that needs to sell more tickets than that for even the lowest profile games at the RWC. They have a monumental marketing catch up job to do for 2019 considering that even women's football there has gained much more popularity there.

USA is less established in rugby than Japan. Japan used to like rugby a lot more and even with decline in popularity over the last 20 years the legacy of that past decent popularity is that it still has a place amongst schools and especially universities. 11 years ago USA got about 2,000 for a home game with Scotland which they lost by about 60 points I think, next year they will very likely get more 18-20,000 and get a much better result so they have come along way in the past decade. They started off with less structure in place than Japan and less funding but have come along way in a decade. They haven't had a particularly great year on the field, but I am impressed by the progressive way their team is being run and their marketing campaigns to build interest are far better than Japan.

Also don't be fooled by the pro teams in the Top League, they get some big name players but from what I've heard the lower end of the Top League is woeful in standard. Some like Brad Thorn got stuck with a really dreadful team (for once), and many of the Japanese players in these lower teams aren't actually fully pro. Eddie Jones has been constantly ranting against the Japanese system and saying it should be overhauled to get young Japanese better quality rugby.

Russia are a terribly run union. Most Russians want them out. The debacle of the Sevens World Cup, playing "home" games in Colwyn Bay and Sochi just sums them up. As does Kingsley Jones' coaching of them and their woeful on field performances this year, and also there is word financially they are struggling at the minute as well.

Romania's union the FRR have turned a corner recently however. Their national side was heading to the dumps around 2009-2010, but they have rebuilt and strengthened that now. And also importantly they have invested considerably in their pro league the SuperLiga over the past couple of years to the extent that former All Blacks like Sosene Anesi have joined and they can now outbid some ProD2 teams to keep some of the better Romanian players around and gain credibility and standards to the league. The FRR are one of the success stories over the past 18 months.
 
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This has turned into a very interesting and informative thread.

From my understanding of the Russian Professional League it is run completely separate from the Union and is actually a product of the old Soviet System. Talking to a Russian a few months ago in another thread he said that the teams are given money by the local authority. So it would appear that the local council identifies the need for a sport, or demand, and pays for the whole thing, which is about 5 million.

There is also a lot of negative talk here as well, very much the glass is half empty. US and Canada are on the way up and though they don't have a pro league, we all know it is a matter of not if, but when.
In regards to Japan; going forward or being stagnate is always much better than going backwards, like what may be happening in Wales! And if it is a minority sport, an average 5000 people and huge global companies investing huge amount of money in stadiums, training facilities and of course foreign players it a bloody good thing. The RWC is going to be massive for rugby in Asia, even more so if Japan can continue to get games get Tier One nations, the RWC 2015 and of course the Olympics.

Also, it is good to read Romania doing much better, great for Eastern Europe, especially with Georgia's continue rise. I also read that the Ukraine are on the way up. Only if the bosses could sort out this European mess soon and get some of these Eastern European teams involved in Europe.


Also thinking about it, many of these Tier Two are real contenders for Tier One status,

Tier One
New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina
Wales, Ireland, Scotland, England, France, Italy

Tier Two and Three Quarters
Japan - They have everything in my opinion, just need more games against T1 and to beat them. And if true, build playing numbers again.
US and Canada - Need a professional league to complement their current set ups.
Fiji, Samoa, Tonga - If they get a Super Rugby team, I see no reason why they shouldn't be T1, apart from the money side of things.
Georgia - Games against T1 and to keep building.
 
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at least the 2019 rugby world cup will hopefully and i think it will is attract more people in japan to follow rugby and play rugby which what i think japan needs to become a successful rugby nation.
 
It will be awesome for the Japanese rugby fraternity, I wish them well for the event, and with any luck hopefully the other countries will showcase their talent so the Japs stop buying so many Kiwi players.
 
It will be awesome for the Japanese rugby fraternity, I wish them well for the event, and with any luck hopefully the other countries will showcase their talent so the Japs stop buying so many Kiwi players.

atleast were not like the french league with that :)
 
Hello! I was forget completely my password on here.xD Finally,I remember.Ah:)
I don't have an experience talking with foreign people.It's bit afraidng matter for me.Ah. :) My english is so bad. I can't talk with people by mouse and voice.(My english level is average in here)
Sometime we can't speak English and conduct the place well when you lost way in city.But..Please be patient.Maybe you can find the person can speak.

Thanks for message.About positive opinion for Rugby.Yeees!I hope so. 300 million dollers budget is expensive.But they will use tax.I think.
So...It will goes well.

I can reply message when I click reply bottan? I try it from now.
 
Yes... I think Japanese people visit rugby stadium if it is so cheap..

Japan is far country from U.K. Ireland,France,NZ,Australia.
It take cost much to visit. :eek: Do you think Foreign supporter comes to here?
 
Japanese rugby history..

I talk about Japanese Rugby's history little.:)
We had the time Rugby Union was popular in past time.. But it is 80's age in last century.

1970-1980

University Rugby was so popular at that time. Waseda,Keiou,Meiji Universities team is so popular and attendance seat has no vacant.So many many people gathered.
Rugby is youth's simbol.Not only university,Japan national team and Top leagues gathered many attendance too.:)

1989
Japan won against Scotland at home game.This incident is one of miraculious incident and we had never this kind matter for 14 years.Until 2013:)

1991.

J-league(Football) appeared.Soccer league get professional. Attendance was getting less.. And they would go to Wcup in 1998.
Then,atteance become getting less.

1995.
There was 3rd Wcup in South Africa. Japan teams lost 4 times. On the last game,Japan is defeated completely against Newzealand B-teams.

The result is 145-17. Terribly shocking game for us!!:( Many rugby fan leave from Rugby... Because they said we realized Japan will never win against Europe or Oceanian strong countries cause we have a BIG disadvantage of Body Frame...>< Some people are saying 'It's impossible that Japanese Rugby will be strong.' :(

In 1999,2003. We defeated again in Rugby World Cup.But few Rugby fan were never give up!and they believe Japanese team will be strong someday.

In 2004. Japan team go to the European visit test match. Terrible game again. 8-100 against Scotland.. 0-100 against Wales. Mass media in U.K. said 'Terrible performance.Never you come here again'. :(

In 2011.Rugby world cup. We had an argument about 10 Foreign player belonging to Japanese team.It's too many or none.. Almost Rugby fans are agree it.Other sports fans are not agree. Sorry for Kiwi and Tonga people.. ><

In 2013.Japan won against Wales :) Miracle!!!

Lost against All Blacks Again. 7-52. People say 'Rugby is impossible for Japanese.Too big disadvantage of Body Frame and size'. But some rugby fans are still believe..
HOwever, in this 20 years.Rugby fans are getting few and Soccer is getting popular cause World class players appear..
I talk to you again.See ya again.
 
Thanks for your posts doragonone. The only people I know who have ever been to Japan absolutely loved the place. I'm sure many people will come from all over the world and those who do will have a fantastic time. While I am still somewhat skeptical abut the prospect of a Japanese World Cup, I think the people need to get behind it. Before 2011 people said that we were too small to host the World Cup but in the end we all got behind it. You guys need to find a way to make that happen in Japan.
 
Hello.Everyone. :)

I come this forum and post this message in first time.
I registered this forum because I did want to tell truth of Japan World Cup 2019.

I'm Japanese and living in there.I'm rugby fan.
Japan is elected the site of held the Rugby World Cup 2019.

However,Rugby Union isn't popular at all in my country Japan. Rugby is minor sports in here.Almost Rugby fan in here aren't approve held this Wcup. :(

In 2019.You'll see vacant seat's on stands on almost every matches.And attendances would be very few and very silent atmosphere game would be appear.
Japanese major sports is baseball and football.Rugby players population is getting less now.

Do you know how many atttendances come in Japanese Top League? Average is no more than 5000. Moreover,almost attendances of them are mobilized by team's company.
Our Top league aren't Professional league.It's just Semi-Professional.Team's name is contained Company's name and almost players from Japan is amateur player and worker in there.

On the other hands.University Rugby is popular as minor sports in here.10,000-30,000 attendances come to important game of University Rugby Championship.
Our Rugby Union is a "Students Sports" actually. Foreign people are sometime misunderstand our Rugby's popularity cause specific situation.

University Rugby Fan don't have an interest at National teams game at all. They don't have an interest about Japanese game.
Of course,Foreign national teams games aren't popular at all.Sorry,You shouldn't expectation of the reception from us.If you come to World cup's games match.You'll see very few attendances game. Perhaps,Top League company's try mobilize workers.However,They aren't interest about Rugby at all.They aren't knowing Rugby's rules.

Almost young Japanese people aren't knowing the rules at all even the Knock On.

Rugby popularity is getting less in Japan.There is some reason for it. If you have a question about our rugby popularity.I'll answer to you.


*About Japan National teams. Many Japanese people aren't approve and support about foreign players are playing in Japanese National team.
We have a strong nationalism than European countries who accepted immigrants.

I think you know Japan is almost single-ethnic country and didn't accept foreign immigrant almostly as developed countries in G8.
Rugby union's Associationism rule become obstacle of spread popularity to Japan and Asian countries.
I don't think the idea that Foreign players plays in other countries national teams aren't acceptable except Europe and America.

ようこそ、doragonone。

ここで2019のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人の観点を伝えてありがとうございました。

私は5年前に日本に一年間ぐらい暮らして、doragononeが書いたこと直接に経験しました。日本では大学以外にラグビーが全然人気ありませんな。

しかし、一つの問題が外国人の選手が覆いすぎることが知りませんでした。 日本人にとっては日本代表ラグビーチームに海外の選手でることはまずいという意味ですか?

不適切な言葉遣いがありましたら、すみません(ここ三年間ぐらい日本語あまり使っています)。
 
Even japanese say that rugby world cup in japan will be weak. There are more countries that have a true rich rugby culture for decades that can benefit more. I love japan and the people but i don't want to see a world cup flop with weak attendance. Hope the IRB change its location for 2019.
 
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Even japanese say that rugby world cup in japan will be weak. There are more countries that have a true rich rugby culture for decades that can benefit more. I love japan and the people but i don't want to see a world cup flop with weak attendance. Hope the IRB change its location for 2019.

I am inclined to agree I must say... I love Japan too, but when I was there the interest and knowledge of the sport was even lower than the appreciation of soccer in Australia.

It's a shame too - Japan has the potential to be good, but the game just doesn't gain any mainstream interest there.
 
はじめまして。(Nice to meet you.)
どこに住んでいますか?(Where do you live?)
どのチームを応援していますか?(Which team do you support?)
学生ですか社会人ですか、それともそれ以外ですか?(Are you a student, or a worker, or other?)
 
I correct your Japanese.

ようこそ、doragonone。

ここで2019のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人の観点を伝えてありがとうございました。

私は5年前に日本に一年間ぐらい暮らして、doragononeが書いたこと直接に経験しました。日本では大学以外にラグビーが全然人気ありませんな。

しかし、一つの問題が外国人の選手が覆いすぎることが知りませんでした。 日本人にとっては日本代表ラグビーチームに海外の選手でることはまずいという意味ですか?

不適切な言葉遣いがありましたら、すみません(ここ三年間ぐらい日本語あまり使っています)。

>ここで2019のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人の観点を伝えてありがとうございました。

ここで2019年のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人からの見方を伝えてくださってありがとうございました。

>私は5年前に日本に一年間ぐらい暮らして、doragononeが書いたこと直接に経験しました。日本では大学以外にラグビーが全然人気ありませんな。

Well, yes Rugby is a very college sport in Japan, but not only college Rugby but also high school Rugby is popular. Do you know the enthusiastic support for the Osaka Korean High School?

>しかし、一つの問題が外国人の選手が覆いすぎることが知りませんでした。 日本人にとっては日本代表ラグビーチームに海外の選手でることはまずいという意味ですか?

Not "覆い", but "多い".
Well, many people say that Japan's national team has too many non-Japanese players. But I think that there is no problem about that.
For me the big problem is Japan's jersey has Japan's national flag Hinomaru. Because of my hatred of Japanese imperialism, I cannot wear such a jersey.
 
I don't understand who accepted the bidding process for japan to be allowed to host the rugby world cup? Its not fair to other countries. I guess the IRB got paid off to allow this to happen in the wrong atmosphere. Argentina has been bidding and they still don't have a concluded date. Argentina deserves the World cup! You can even see when the pumas play the rugby championship in Argentina the stadiums are overflowing of spectators.
 
I don't understand who accepted the bidding process for japan to be allowed to host the rugby world cup? Its not fair to other countries. I guess the IRB got paid off to allow this to happen in the wrong atmosphere. Argentina has been bidding and they still don't have a concluded date. Argentina deserves the World cup! You can even see when the pumas play the rugby championship in Argentina the stadiums are overflowing of spectators.

I don't think Argentina ended up officially bidding for either. The mistake isn't necessarily giving Japan the RWC; it's giving Japan the RWC without forcing major change within the JRFU. Another thing is that part of the reason for giving Japan the RWC was to grow the game in Asia, by far the most populous continent in the world. However, other than giving Asian players foreign player exemptions, I'm not sure what is actually being done to grow the game in Asia by the RWC/JRFU. I'd think that adding teams from HK and Seoul to the Top League would be a bare minimum.
 
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