[RWC2023] England vs Argentina (09/09/2023)

[die_mole]

Ok. Enjoy your kickathon. I'm outa here.

If you don't like that you don't like tier 1.5 rugby

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Really don't understand this, they didn't score one try and just kicked goals.

I didn't see any belly fires in them, in fact not in any one of the 30 players on that pitch.

Was I watching a different game from everyone else who actually enjoyed that?!.

A man down for 77 minutes and you expect tries?

That was expertly managed in the face of what ended up being (unexpectedly) very very poor opposition. Keep the scoreboard ticking over.

Argentina should have been scoring the tries and topping the group. This is a weird result but arguing with the performances won't get you anywhere

 

[Summer Rose]

Really don't understand this, they didn't score one try and just kicked goals.

I didn't see any belly fires in them, in fact not in any one of the 30 players on that pitch.

Was I watching a different game from everyone else who actually enjoyed that?!.

My understanding is that there was no real need to pursue scoring tries when Argentina kept giving away penalties left and right. The first drop goal broke a 3-3 deadlock and was probably a smart play at the time.

Anyway, don't mind me, I'm pretty new to rugby still.

 

[die_mole]

It's ungentlemanly to score tries while down a man. England just did the honorable thing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Bizarre game.

Much better from England. Great to see the return of the DG for scoreboard pressure. A whole generation of lemmings, sorry, coaches have missed a trick there. IIRC most of Ford's previous efforts have troubled the corner flag more than the scoreboard so great to see him nail those and look generally accomplished. We'll have to see what that means for future selections.

We'll take the win for what it's worth. Hard to read too much into that though as Arg were truly unbelievably bad. Quite disappointing that we didn't really see a properly competitive match. Still, that ought to see us on course to win the group and possibly a Wales QF - winnable, but also potentially the worst way possible to lose in the knockout stages.

Not quite sure about the Curry red. Appeals and counter appeals will probably end just after the QFs.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That was the worst thing I've ever watched... England showed more intelligence than they have in about 3 years but Argentina were nothing short of were desperate. Multiples of 3 will always suit any England team not playing SA. Strong halfback performance from England too, inside and outside need work.

Nothing to make you think either will upset a side from the other side of the draw.

 

[Saintjay]

It's ungentlemanly to score tries while down a man. England just did the honorable thing.

Quite correct. Life's never been the same since you can't slap a man about the face with a glove and declare 'pistols at dawn'. It's just not cricket.

 

[Zed]

Not sure what to make of that game. It's tricky to analyse England's performance as they played with a man down for the whole game, it's was always going to be a conservative game. But when they did try and ship it wide, it was slow and laborious. The passing to Johnny May (when he ran into touch) was rubbish, it looked like there was a good opportunity and they all drifted, didn't draw their man etc schoolboy stuff! But their defence was immense and whatever they lacked in skills and ability, they made up for with passion. I don't think we will be seeing much running rugby from them, but they'll go a long way in this tournament.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

As someone that was at the game and now plowing through the live feed on my favourite forum, I am massively surprised by the negativity from English fans here. We played 78 minutes with 14 men against a team that most fans and pundits thought would beat us. I've always been a Farrell over Ford man, but Ford was masterful today, not only the DGs, but his leadership around the pitch that might not have come through in the coverage, slowing the game down, focusing the lads on territory and possession, a real leader. I feel massively more positive about our tournament prospects after that display.

 

[Derpus]

Disappointed by the Argies. Expected much more.

 

[Brigantine]

I watched the whole highlights, and didn't see the try or what most of the 3-pointers were for. And didn't know until coming here that the red card even happened.

That casts everything in a new light. The highlights were a waste of time

 

[ikvat]

What a poor copy from Argentina.

An unsexy english team, but so pragmatic. That's the kind of start that can give them confidence.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

In a way having 14 meant a more limited game plan which kind of suited us. The few occasions we did look to run weren't great, but that's for another day.

Borthwick's got a very interesting call to make on Farrell in a couple of games time. Both Ford at 10 and Lawes as skipper made strong cases to retain those roles. Farrell back to 12, hmmmm……

Dubious kicks notwithstanding Earl went pretty well, certainly bringing more to the party than Binny would have. Not my ideal choice for 8, but Borthwick's made his bed and if the choice boils down to the 2 of them it's a no brainer.

Any ban for Curry will also make things interesting.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

If the rules of rugby say that Curry deserved a red and the Argy only deserved a yellow then there is something wrong with the rules. Curry was attempting to make a legal tackle.

 

[Geordie]

If Farrell comes back it's at 12 and with no captaincy.

 

[Geordie]

Oh and they will kill the game with these red cards.

I know die hard rugby people who are losing interest already...

 

[Wichita]

Yes but SA, Ireland, All Blacks, Wales, Argentina, England, Australia probably will and that's a pretty standard quater finals line up for most world cups.

I would expect France to be in there as well

If the same Argentinian team we saw yesterday reaches the quarterfinals and Scotland don't, I suspect we will hear about it until the end of times..
Italy or Fidji are probably better ATM.

 

[Zed]

I want to try here …

I don't enjoy a 'kickathon'. However, from a tactical POV, England did exactly the right thing. Trying to play running rugby a man down is pure suicide. Let me explain as simply as possible: 1) running rugby is about creating overlaps which is hard to the point of being almost impossible with a numerical disadvantage 2) running rugby is fricking tiring. When you lose a man as early as England did, you can't do it without being completely knackered by the 50min - which then means you lose badly in the last 30.

Does that help?

Forgetting how they've been playing, performing, as an isolated game, they did everything they should have done. Textbox on how to play with a man down. Although this is probably how they'll play with 15 haha

I think if they're going to take away anything from this game, they were pretty clinical. They just need to have a plan B, because Argentina were pretty average, other teams will put 40 points on them if they stick to that game plan.

 

[Zed]

Re Tom Curry's red card, easy to go back and forth about it. But the way we're going is teams are going to have to stop challenging, pressurising any player who is in the air for a high ball, which will be ****. Zero intent on Curry's part to do anything illegal, at the most you could argue he mistimed his run slightly, but the Argentinean player, probably came down at an angle/direction he wasn't quite expecting. I saw a guy in the air kick a defender in the face as he approached him and tried to argue that it was unintentional. Does the person in the air have any responsibility as to how they come down/land. We need clearer rules, even the ref didn't know how to interpret it and had to look at the video 3+ times.

 

[Jimbo]

It's a strange one because on BT sport I've seen explanations of what's a red (largely by Barnes) and he does talk a little about rugby incidence and common sense applied, I don't think anyone could argue there was any intent on Currys part and was a matter of how the player landed combined with an extremely marginal timing issue and on one angle looked to have been blindsided for a split second, the rules and how they are implementing needs looking at. when that act is punished so severely and something as reckless as jumping into a vulnerable player at speed with absolutely no control and very high potential for pretty much any limb to make contact with the head is just a ten minute cool down something seems very wrong.