[RWC2023] England vs Argentina (09/09/2023)

[munstermuffin]

Must say Eng did well to win but papers over alot of cracks. Still looked nowhere near Tier 1 and never created a chance. Won off the back of Argentina being hot headed poor and ill disciplined which is ironic as England were team with 14

 

[BPM]

What is the definition of Tier 1 now? Are we talking about just the top 4 sides? If not, we just beat a team who were ranked 6th.

 

[TommiG88]

What is the definition of Tier 1 now? Are we talking about just the top 4 sides? If not, we just beat a team who were ranked 6th.

Basically Ireland are the only T1 nation. Everyone else is Tier 5 currently

 

[top prop]

OK pal … it would be nice to see more consistency but to call it 'official racism' is a big leap. Perhaps talk to someone who has actually experienced racism before you say stuff like that …

It's more than consistency though its down right abuse of the rules where 2 identical tackles are policed in two totally different ways.

If that isn't a form of racism then what is it?

 

[top prop]

I do love these World Cup forum newcomers. They bring a form of entertainment

Hi tommi, I do try to bring entertainment with me but this card farce has wound me up

 

[Which Tyler]

It's more than consistency though its down right abuse of the rules where 2 identical tackles are policed in two totally different ways.

If that isn't a form of racism then what is it?

Inconsistency at worst, alternatively 2 different people having different opinions.

You'll need a LOT more than 2 data points to show a clear trend of behaviour.

Oh, and the 2 tackles weren't "identical" 1 was forceful, 1 was passive. AKA 1 didn't allow for any mitigation, 1 didn't (now, for me, there wasn't enough mitigation, but that's my bias and my opinion, not fact)

 

[HenryChinaski]

That was the worst thing I've ever watched... England showed more intelligence than they have in about 3 years but Argentina were nothing short of were desperate. Multiples of 3 will always suit any England team not playing SA. Strong halfback performance from England too, inside and outside need work.

Nothing to make you think either will upset a side from the other side of the draw.

I don't think anyone here could possibly deny that's true given all the evidence but I still think it's a pretty odd thing to focus on given how England were placed coming into the game and where they found themselves 2 minutes in. The overwhelming evidence coming into this world cup is that England don't have a realistic hope in hell to lift the trophy - that remains unchanged. But I definitely don't see how anyone could claim to have seen even more evidence of this based on the game. Or even frankly to be looking for evidence on the basis of today.

On the multiples of 3, not really sure the point being made either. There have been years especially early under EJ where England were scoring more tries than other teams, performing highly on line breaks and attacking stats etc. The England with their multiples of 3 thing is always pointed out when its the case but rarely noted when it's not.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

OK pal … it would be nice to see more consistency but to call it 'official racism' is a big leap. Perhaps talk to someone who has actually experienced racism before you say stuff like that …

It’s the new Jim Crow

 

[BrokenWing]

It's more than consistency though its down right abuse of the rules where 2 identical tackles are policed in two totally different ways.

If that isn't a form of racism then what is it?

Unless you can prove that the nationality of the players involved had some bearing on the decisions then I’d say it’s incompetence at best.

 

[top prop]

inconsistency.

You'll need a LOT more than 2 data points to show a clear trend of behaviour.

Oh, and the 2 tackles weren't "identical"

They were both upright tackles with contact to the head, those are the points of issue.

There wasn't much of a difference between the two tackles if any

 

[HenryChinaski]

Must say Eng did well to win but papers over alot of cracks. Still looked nowhere near Tier 1 and never created a chance. Won off the back of Argentina being hot headed poor and ill disciplined which is ironic as England were team with 14

Again, such a weird take.

I don't see how this papers over anything. The troubles we have are well documented

 

[top prop]

Unless you can prove that the nationality of the players involved had some bearing on the decisions then I’d say it’s incompetence at best.

Well it is the usual that England players get the butt of the calls coming from the officials

 

[ncurd]

Well that was certainly a way to get into the ignore list. It's one thing to be stupidly hyperbolic but then to actually defend it when called out...

Dear me the world cup brings out the cranks.

 

[TommiG88]

'Joy and relief for resilient England but still a ton of questions'

You could sense England's joy and relief at beating Argentina but there are still a ton of questions to answer, writes Tom English.

www.bbc.co.uk

A beautiful piece written by Mr English…

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Again, such a weird take.

I don't see how this papers over anything. The troubles we have are well documented

 

[top prop]

Well that was certainly a way to get into the ignore list. It's one thing to be stupidly hyperbolic but then to actually defend it when called out...

Dear me the world cup brings out the cranks.

So you think it's right that curry was red carded yet the Chile captain was a yellow?
Two tackles that were head on head upright tackles yet two completely different outcomes, explain

 

[Which Tyler]

They were both upright tackles with contact to the head, those are the points of issue.

There wasn't much of a difference between the two tackles if any

Those points aren't being debated, they're also not the only points to consider

Well it is the usual that England players get the butt of the calls coming from the officials

Worth noting that opinion =/= fact

So you think it's right that curry was red carded yet the Chile captain was a yellow?
Two tackles that were head on head upright tackles yet two completely different outcomes, explain

I've given my opinion - I'm not convinced there was enough mitigation for the Chilean - but it's not my opinion that counts.
Two different tackles resulted in two different outcomes

 

[Reiser99]

Oh have a day off. 78 minutes down to 14 men beating a team ranked higher and all you can moan about is tries?

Yeah we won, but we showed 0 improvement in attack. I'm happy they won, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't look like scoring tries.

Edit: Others have said it better. England did what they needed to and fair play. Under the circumstances it's a great win. However, when they did have try scoring opportunities they still looked awful. The 4 on 2 example where May ended off the field showed how bad our backs are.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've said it previously but our entire attacking gameplan at the moment relies on the opponents making mistakes, we don't have a way to manipulate teams. Argentina were kind enough to do exactly what our gameplan requires but we can't rely on any even semi-competent team being as bad.

 

[munstermuffin]

Again, such a weird take.

I don't see how this papers over anything. The troubles we have are well documented

Steve Borthwicks exact words were "we are back and were written off too early"

Nothing wierd on what I said. Of England came up against anyone on onther side such as Ireland, NZ, France, SA or even Scotland and yesterday was their best then they loose. Simply put