[RWC2023] England vs Chile (23/09/2023)

[BrokenWing]

I never suggested they should be bent for him.

But you can look at it different ways..

Is he a mercenary who took the money? Or maybe the Prem clubs are aware that English players have an eye on playing for England and come in with low offers relying on that?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Hope kills what?…hope?..

Hope kills expectations means creates bigger disappointment later on if and when England do fail.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I never suggested they should be bent for him.

But you can look at it different ways..

Is he a mercenary who took the money? Or maybe the Prem clubs are aware that English players have an eye on playing for England and come in with low offers relying on that?

Who's having that conversation, though?
We're just talking about eligibility

 

[ncurd]

There are offers, and then there are offers…
Unless you see the numbers involved those offers could pale in comparison to the one he took and the state the prem is in there's no guarantee he wouldn't be doing exactly the same again next season.

Isn't that part of the point though so French clubs can't just chuck money at our top players.

 

[BrokenWing]

But they still can. Were just replying on the players international loyalty to stop it.

Why should the prem clubs benefit from that?

In a sport where a comparatively short career can end at any time, why are we begrudging players earning their potential?

 

[ncurd]

But they still can. Were just replying on the players international loyalty to stop it.

Why should the prem clubs benefit from that?

In a sport where a comparatively short career can end at any time, why are we begrudging players earning their potential?

We've had what three clubs go under in the past few years? Yeah we should absolutely kill them further by degrading the product.

 

[BrokenWing]

Holding the players to ransom isn't the answer.

 

[BPM]

I don't actually feel that sympathetic towards the players TBH. The likes of Watson, Itoje and Genge are very vocal about pay whilst seemingly completely disconnected to the reality of the level of finance in the sport. They don't seem to realise that they're asking for money that isn't there and in a lot of cases, more money going to them simply means that it's being redistributed from the less well known players - some of whom will lose their livelihoods over it.

 

[higgik]

I'm not sure about the idea of Smith as a winger, but 100% agree on your assessment of him being 'easily the sharpest, most dangerous player out there' yesterday.

As ever, the biggest issue is that 'Farrell must play' which overrides all other decision making and forces the likes of Smith or Ford to play with a handbrake outside them at 12, or to be moved out of position themselves.

With all that said, Farrell at 10 and Smith at 15 looked infinitely more comfortable than Smith at 10 and Farrell at 12. Even accounting for poor opposition, they at least looked like they were broadly on the same wavelength.

Always saying, if Farrell has someone else making decisions he is actually a very good operator.
At Sarries he has Goode, and Lozowski to set the calls.
Maybe Smith at 15, with his vision and decision making can play that Goode role. Add Arundell on the wing to help with defensive catching and we might have the start of a good backline.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Holding the players to ransom isn't the answer.

£25k per cap is hardly ransom

 

[TommiG88]

£25k per cap is hardly ransom

Wouldn't get out of bed for that

Oh wait, I would let squirrels nibble my ballsack for that amount

 

[BrokenWing]

£25k per cap is hardly ransom

That's IF you get a cap.

What if you come back from France, and don't even get in the squad? Not that that would happen of course…

 

[TommiG88]

That's IF you get a cap.

What if you come back from France, and don't even get in the squad? Not that that would happen of course…

They still have their club salary paying whilst away no?

 

[Jimbo]

They still have their club salary paying whilst away no?

Yes but I believe the point is Olly is saying that the 25k per cap counters the salary difference but in some cases players have probably taken a significant pay cut to come back to meet England selection criteria (I assume at a loss) and as unselected that cost is not negated by the cap pay out.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Then don't move back then?

Playing for your country is a privilege not a right,
There's criteria you have to meet which are not new and are known to every player


My £25k point was more aimed at someone like Arundell rather than someone like Mercer
Arundell likely got lower offers from Prem sides than French, however he was in the EPS (and in the rwc squad? Can't remember when he was announced by racing) so would know he's likely to get at least a couple of caps over the next season which is extra money on top of his Prem salary
He's made more off of England appearances than his club salary (considering he was on an academy contract): £75k in 21/22 and £100k in 22/23

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like he's allowed to have his cake and eat it anyway:

Henry Arundell to get England selection exemption for Six Nations – but not New Zealand tour

Exclusive: Arundell, who has signed for Racing 92 in France, falls into the loophole category of “exceptional circumstances”

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[TommiG88]

Looks like he's allowed to have his cake and eat it anyway:

Henry Arundell to get England selection exemption for Six Nations – but not New Zealand tour

Exclusive: Arundell, who has signed for Racing 92 in France, falls into the loophole category of “exceptional circumstances”

www.telegraph.co.uk

To be fair, most prem teams would have had their roster sorted for the next season when Irish went of business

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair, most prem teams would have had their roster sorted for the next season when Irish went of business

Reports were he was set to sign for Bath (to the extent he was house hunting there) before Racing came in with a much bigger offer

 

[TommiG88]

Reports were he was set to sign for Bath (to the extent he was house hunting there) before Racing came in with a much bigger offer

To be fair I'd pick anywhere over Bath. Poisonous club

 

[TommiG88]

Sorry bath fans