[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[Saintjay]

So apparently only four of englands starting eight had any Carries whatsoever.

Borthwick worked out who's least likely to drop the ball. Evidently are handling errors were low based on giving the ball to only players with suspiciously big hands it would seem.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So apparently only four of englands starting eight had any Carries whatsoever.

Just read the stats. Shocking.

The guilty 4 were Curry, Cole, Chessum and George. Not a single metre between them, although the others were quite good.

Earl led the way with 97, Itoje had 62 (fair play, I'm often critical), Lawes with 42 and Genge contributed 21.

Our Damp Squib Squad added 5 whole metres between them. 1 each from Marler, Martin and Binny and a whopping 2 from Sinckler. Dan didn't get off the bench so our hooker didn't contribute any go forward (Mauvaka made just the 95m against the Boks in 64 minutes…..just saying).

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just read the stats. Shocking.

The guilty 4 were Curry, Cole, Chessum and George. Not a single metre between them, although the others were quite good.

Earl led the way with 97, Itoje had 62 (fair play, I'm often critical), Lawes with 42 and Genge contributed 21.

Our Damp Squib Squad added 5 whole metres between them. 1 each from Marler, Martin and Binny and a whopping 2 from Sinckler. Dan didn't get off the bench so our hooker didn't contribute any go forward (Mauvaka made just the 95m against the Boks in 64 minutes…..just saying).

If the guilty parties aren't full of energy and playing with a higher intensity than the South African pack who have been through 2 really high intensity games, then the only excuse is laziness and lack of drive. There is no way the South African pack should be coming into the game against us being less fatigued and sore and yet I'm pretty sure we will look like the fatigued side.

 

[BrokenWing]

like the level of age grade rugby where you can play 80mins and never see the ball because the 9/10 only passes to their mates and then they just take contact instead of passing it on

I've played games in my teens/20s and not seen the ball because the centre "can't pass it that way"

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I've played games in my teens/20s and not seen the ball because the centre "can't pass it that way"

This could be a direct quote of anyone playing outside Manu or Farrell previously.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If the guilty parties aren't full of energy and playing with a higher intensity than the South African pack who have been through 2 really high intensity games, then the only excuse is laziness and lack of drive. There is no way the South African pack should be coming into the game against us being less fatigued and sore and yet I'm pretty sure we will look like the fatigued side.

Like everything there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Half of Earl's metres were probably made in one break, whereas an intervention, securing loose ball in defence on our line and driving 50 cm is just as valuable.

Where I do get very frustrated though, is how frequently our forwards take the ball static not giving themselves any chance to develop real momentum to win the collision or even make a break. Whether to blame the receiver positioning, the ruck speed, the 9 or the tactics, it's been a failing for years.

But you're right, every contact *looks* like it matters to the Boks. There was a good interview in the Times with Kitshoff and Malherbe where they explained their attitude towards scrummaging. "It's about going into that mode to really **** a guy up" gives you a flavour.

 

[BrokenWing]

This could be a direct quote of anyone playing outside Manu or Farrell previously.

I said can't not won't though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Just read the stats. Shocking.

The guilty 4 were Curry, Cole, Chessum and George. Not a single metre between them, although the others were quite good.

Earl led the way with 97, Itoje had 62 (fair play, I'm often critical), Lawes with 42 and Genge contributed 21.

Our Damp Squib Squad added 5 whole metres between them. 1 each from Marler, Martin and Binny and a whopping 2 from Sinckler. Dan didn't get off the bench so our hooker didn't contribute any go forward (Mauvaka made just the 95m against the Boks in 64 minutes…..just saying).

Which is odd given Chessum has been one of our good carriers

 

[Umaga's Witness]

If the guilty parties aren't full of energy and playing with a higher intensity than the South African pack who have been through 2 really high intensity games, then the only excuse is laziness and lack of drive. There is no way the South African pack should be coming into the game against us being less fatigued and sore and yet I'm pretty sure we will look like the fatigued side.

And @Vieux Talonneur, i doubt those players are guilty or lazy, surely it's just the game plan.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And @Vieux Talonneur, i doubt those players are guilty or lazy, surely it's just the game plan.

TBH struggling to think of any game plan where you'd be happy with half your pack not making any ground at all. You might ask a player to play a bit tighter hitting more rucks as Itoje was allegedly asked to do (hasn't been listening then…) and someone like Genge's game is more naturally suited to carrying than Cole's, but you'd still be expecting some contribution. And as @LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) says Chessum usually has a decent carrying game.

I'm sure there's no lack of effort, but maybe some players simply aren't getting into position to give the ball carrier options. That's long been a criticism and age, fitness and footballing sense could all play a part in that.

In the NZ v Fra game all 16 starting forwards contributed a minimum of 4 metres.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Just read the stats. Shocking.

The guilty 4 were Curry, Cole, Chessum and George. Not a single metre between them, although the others were quite good.

Earl led the way with 97, Itoje had 62 (fair play, I'm often critical), Lawes with 42 and Genge contributed 21.

Our Damp Squib Squad added 5 whole metres between them. 1 each from Marler, Martin and Binny and a whopping 2 from Sinckler. Dan didn't get off the bench so our hooker didn't contribute any go forward (Mauvaka made just the 95m against the Boks in 64 minutes…..just saying).

Where do you find your stats? I just heard the thing about four of the eight making Carries from a tv show

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Where do you find your stats? I just heard the thing about four of the eight making Carries from a tv show

I always get mine from ESPN:

England vs Fiji - Player Statistics - Rugby World Cup 2023 - 15 Oct, 2023 - ESPN

Get a summary of the England vs Fiji, Rugby World Cup 2023 15 Oct, 2023 rugby match.

www.espn.co.uk

George, Chessum and Curry making 0m has got to be by design/gameplan rather than through laziness etc.
All three are good carriers and there's no way Lawes is that much fitter than Curry he just happened to get himself into position to receive the ball 5 times as many times
Obviously not saying the gameplan said YOU, YOU AND YOU: DONT RUN, but they must have been designated as ruck hitters, or support pod etc

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Where do you find your stats? I just heard the thing about four of the eight making Carries from a tv show

I got those from the RWC match centre.

England v Fiji - Catch up on all the action | Rugby World Cup 2023

Follow the live blog: RWC 2023 Match England v Fiji - Stade de Marseille

www.rugbyworldcup.com

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Oh dear!

 

[General Melchett]

Surely a tip tackle from Napoleon at the end there? Yellow card and bunker review.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Oh dear!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I always get mine from ESPN:

England vs Fiji - Player Statistics - Rugby World Cup 2023 - 15 Oct, 2023 - ESPN

Get a summary of the England vs Fiji, Rugby World Cup 2023 15 Oct, 2023 rugby match.

www.espn.co.uk

George, Chessum and Curry making 0m has got to be by design/gameplan rather than through laziness etc.
All three are good carriers and there's no way Lawes is that much fitter than Curry he just happened to get himself into position to receive the ball 5 times as many times
Obviously not saying the gameplan said YOU, YOU AND YOU: DONT RUN, but they must have been designated as ruck hitters, or support pod etc

Don't disagree, although in the Samoa game the metres were shared around more evenly.

If I was in uber pedantic literal mode I'd probably argue that potential ball carriers should be in support by design and busting a gut to get there rather than "just happening". It's the classic cliche - Kiwi ball carrier has a decision whether to pass left or right. English ball carrier has to wait for any support.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Oh dear!

Stephen Jones was banging on about this in the Times.

That's what happens with a late afternoon kick off meaning the chaps have had nothing to do for several hours except sit around nursing a mineral water.

Obvs day trippers there for 'the event' - not a Barbour in sight.

 

[Herman the German]

Oh dear!

Just the other day lauded English fans in Rugby in comparison to those in football and then those fellas start reenacting mutiny on the bounty.

 

[TommiG88]

I love the assumption that they're all English. I would doubt an English person would be wearing a Fijian shirt. I suspect Aussies were involved too