[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The contrast between Borthwick's England and Borthwick's Leicester is crazy
Same management team

But at Tigers, zero leaks, Borthwick was pretty rude to the local press, Knew what he wanted to play and stuck to it no matter what
v
At England, soooo many leaks, Borthwick acting really nice with the mainstream press, doesn't have a clue what he wants despite having six nations, warm up games and pool stage to figure something out

 

[Rugbyfan564]

The contrast between Borthwick's England and Borthwick's Leicester is crazy
Same management team

But at Tigers, zero leaks, Borthwick was pretty rude to the local press, Knew what he wanted to play and stuck to it no matter what
v
At England, soooo many leaks, Borthwick acting really nice with the mainstream press, doesn't have a clue what he wants despite having six nations, warm up games and pool stage to figure something out

Local press have no power or influence. National press do.

 

[Wasps92]

Why?

Don't agree with the selections of Farrell, Cole, May or Mitchell. I've also had enough of Manu.

Arundell scored 5 tries (okay against poor opposition) and hasn't been seen since. May looks a shadow of the player he was.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I have to say looking at the 23 it does seem Goode was spot on about Arundell and Farrell

Can't see any other reason why we don't have a back 3 player on the bench.
You have Smith and Daly as our full back options....

 

[dirty harry]

it's not very Fijian, but I'd be kicking it to Smith repeatedly with Semi chasing.

You say that, but Fiji have kicked far more this RWC than ever before.

They are playing far smarter and far more European especially in their decision making ball in hand.

I've said it for a week, I expect Fiji to put a lot of ball in the air, and put some world class athletes under it, Smith is going to have to have the game of his life IMO

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have to say looking at the 23 it does seem Goode was spot on about Arundell and Farrell

Can't see any other reason why we don't have a back 3 player on the bench.
You have Smith and Daly as our full back options....

If there was a bust up between Arundell and Faz I was assuming it was quite recent. But given he wasn't involved v Arg and Jap it's either consistent selection or maybe it happened a while ago? No way he wasn't going to play against Chile regardless.

 

[Jimbo]

It may also be that going forward he can't be selected due to going to France so why waste the caps, if a player already has plenty of experience it probably matters less but the balance of having inexperience as a potential liability whilst not contributing to their immediate future does have some logic, one could also ask if that was the logic why put him in the squad in the first place, just trying to rationalise it.

 

[dirty harry]

has he read this forum?

 

[Which Tyler]

has he read this forum?

 

[Wendigo7]

were you honestly expecting Borthwick to change it for this world cup? he's blatantly been given the instructions to "not make an arse of it" hence him playing the dullest rugby ever with a team of reliable and proven players that won't see another WC.

The worry is he continues with the selection and we're stuck with him for 4 years. Very easy to say he's just keeping the old guard but if they stay afterwards, it's a case of I told you so.

 

[Wendigo7]

Disgusted in that team selection personally.

It's a shocker.

There's very little you can justify it.

 

[Jakedood]

If there was a bust up between Arundell and Faz I was assuming it was quite recent. But given he wasn't involved v Arg and Jap it's either consistent selection or maybe it happened a while ago? No way he wasn't going to play against Chile regardless.

I think you could also ask what x factor Arundell brought to that game? there was one chip over the top after a line break, but other than that the tries were walk-ins. Several he just trotted over the line, so I don't give a ton of credit for that
He's a good player who's rapid and can break tackles, but also it's interesting to note how rarely Ireland would involve you team wise in games under Farrell or Schmidt until maybe a year in camp
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd take him over Daly, but think Daly's left boot (hopefully used for touchfinders too), and experience show through, plus I genuinely thought he was should be starting centre with Lawrence
TLDR I can see an argument for Arundell, but that argument shouldn't be based purely on trotting five of the easiest tries he'll ever score against Chile, where the rest of the team created the space for him to walk over the line

 

[NotTooAmused]

The worry is he continues with the selection and we're stuck with him for 4 years. Very easy to say he's just keeping the old guard but if they stay afterwards, it's a case of I told you so.

I really hope they all get binned after the WC. Jobs ****** if not.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I have to say looking at the 23 it does seem Goode was spot on about Arundell and Farrell

Can't see any other reason why we don't have a back 3 player on the bench.
You have Smith and Daly as our full back options....

It has been in all the press not just one person saying it.

REVEALED: What England captain Owen Farrell said in an f-word demand

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Arundell has made just one appearance in France, during which he broke England's scoring record by grabbing five tries in the 71-0 pool stage rout of Chile.

www.dailymail.co.uk

England rugby captain Owen Farrell 'upset' Henry Arundell after using expletive

England captain Owen Farrell and fellow World Cup squad member Henry Arundell have reportedly fallen out.

www.express.co.uk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Reports claim that Arundell, 20, was left 'visibly upset' after he was allegedly told to 'chase those f***ing kicks' by experienced captain Farrell during a training session prior to the World Cup.

This can't be real, it's as silly as when we were all saying Mercer got dropped for wanting to run the ball...which turned out to be true

 

[NotTooAmused]

 

[Jakedood]

I think Muntz is a huge loss for this team... I have a sneaky feeling the pressure will get to them, and England may win this by 15 points

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yep, totally. Article in the Times talking about the England coaching set up, which was as close to being overtly critical without saying "I'm being overtly critical".

Pointing out their young ages 43 for Borthwick and Sinfield, 40 for Wiggles and 32 for Harrison, giving their, pretty lightweight, coaching CVs and also pointing out that coaching wise 3 of them only really know Tigers and not for very long at that.

Yeah I think this is really important. You want your coaches to have cut their teeth in a range of environments, not least because they need to experience how different approaches work or don't work depending on the setting. We're not short of examples of coaches who had great success in one club but totally failing to get anywhere at the next, including international level (Pivac going from Scarlets to Wales jumps out at me there although I'd defer to someone who paid more attention to Wales in those years)

With SB you just worry that he's doing the only thing he knows at this stage in his career. That's not to say it's not OK to develop your own distinctive style as a coach - Most do.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

It has been in all the press not just one person saying it.

REVEALED: What England captain Owen Farrell said in an f-word demand

EXCLUSIVE BY MATT HUGHES: Arundell has made just one appearance in France, during which he broke England's scoring record by grabbing five tries in the 71-0 pool stage rout of Chile.

www.dailymail.co.uk

England rugby captain Owen Farrell 'upset' Henry Arundell after using expletive

England captain Owen Farrell and fellow World Cup squad member Henry Arundell have reportedly fallen out.

www.express.co.uk

They're citing Goode as the source though

 

[McTallshort]

Shout out to Dan Cole, thought his international career was done but still managing to squeeze in a couple more caps.....yeah otherwise what's to like?