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South Africa director of rugby Rassie Erasmus to face misconduct hearing

TRF_stormer2010

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This is going to end badly whatever happens.
- Strip SA of the ***le and they will say it's sour grapes and that WR is owned by the big 6N teams.
- Punish only Erasmus and it will be claimed it's the big powers silencing someone telling the truth
- Neither Erasmus nor SA punished it will be used as a test case to say coaches are allowed to engage in this behaviour and the game becomes virtually impossible to ref, instead the focus being put on a huge whinge-fest and the entire credibility of the sport being called into question

Ultimately I think the least damaging course of action is for Erasmus to face a penalty but stripping SA of the ***le doesn't seem justified and awarding it to the Lions instead is sheer madness. By extension though I'd want to see a greater clampdown on some of the stupid antics employed by coaches in the media if Erasmus is punished. For example when Gatland and the Welsh coaching team whined like crazy in public and private about a non-try in a Wales vs England game that was literally decided by going back and forth between 2 or 3 frames in a replay. That should never have been allowed. Coaches should be allowed to challenge ref decisions and ask for clarification. Hell they should be allowed to rant for a whole hour but it should be through proper channels, not through social media. At most the coach should say they have gone through the channels with any complaints but that should be the extent of it.

I'd also end the waterboy antics. Members of the coaching staff not to be allowed on the field of play end of.

EDIT seems the filter is a bit overzealous when you try to write ti tle...
Seems the best outcome to my mind as well. I would also hope for more transparency from WR going forward. I believe there can be ways to be open and honest about ref performances without it becoming unmanagable. At the end of the day these decisions have massive implications for the players' careers most of which are short enough already.
Agree and disagree, the northern and Southern Hemisphere refs have reffed the game different irrespective of the law changes. The ruck is the biggest area where refs literally play a completely different game. It needs sorting.
For me its not the differing interpretations between different referees that is the issue or one or two brain farts even as much as it is applying those interpretations differently between teams in the same game.
 

ncurd

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I bought this up in the original thread (might be this one) the biggest issue you have to not having different interpretations especially at the international level is training combined with the complexity of the game. The training for referees is different per union right down to the grass roots level that means by the time they come to international level they've essentially been taught to ref the game different to a counterpart from another nation. This is philosophical in nature such as when you should let things slide ie. which laws you are enforcing and when. Some there appears to be consensus such as crooked scrum feeds but other like offside get a lot more grey.

You can get the international referee together and work on a lot of common framework but you won't remove their base ideas ingrained over the years.

I'm all up for better accountability when they've made staggeringly bad decisions but in the general game they need a lot more slack.
 

TRF_stormer2010

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I bought this up in the original thread (might be this one) the biggest issue you have to not having different interpretations especially at the international level is training combined with the complexity of the game. The training for referees is different per union right down to the grass roots level that means by the time they come to international level they've essentially been taught to ref the game different to a counterpart from another nation. This is philosophical in nature such as when you should let things slide ie. which laws you are enforcing and when. Some there appears to be consensus such as crooked scrum feeds but other like offside get a lot more grey.

You can get the international referee together and work on a lot of common framework but you won't remove their base ideas ingrained over the years.

I'm all up for better accountability when they've made staggeringly bad decisions but in the general game they need a lot more slack.
I don't disagree with anything you said here. I think the more involved fans start to get a feel for the referees' idiosyncracies (spelling?). The casual fan probably doesn't even pick it up probably so ignorance is a blessing there. And you can be sure the staff and players at the top tiers account for those known variances between referees. That is not an issue.

I agree trying to get everyone in precisely the same place is a task that shouldn't even be bothered with. Its not even an issue as long as their call it interpretations is applied consistently and apply to both teams on the pitch. That is where the biggest frustration comes in.

The odd howler will occur and that we'll all have to deal with though more transparency from WR would assist. From an SA perspective and I understand I can only truly speak for myself but the instances I can remember that got me most was not the big howlers although Bismarck getting sent off for a perfectly legit tackle on Carter rankles its the 2011 Aus RWC game that sits very poorly with me. You can't even point to 1 big mistake in that game- its the 57 small ones and the way it seemed different laws were applied to SA and Aus. Lions 1st test wasn't even a 1/4 as bad ITO different strokes being applied to different folks but it had a taste of that and that was a slow boil into big frustration rather than a one-off big call, throwing toys out for bit and getting on with it. The way WR doesn't address atrocious refereeing and hide behinds its curtain is just salt in the wound. But I am rambling now, sorry.
 

ncurd

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Its not even an issue as long as their call it interpretations is applied consistently and apply to both teams on the pitch. That is where the biggest frustration comes in.
The problem is, this doesn't really happen and only really in the fans minds. If you scrub out knowing that the occasional mistake will happen e.g. giving too long/too short for advantage.

Most inconsistent refereeing perception is usually due to false equivalency taking one incident to be exactly the same as every incident.
 

Which Tyler

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The problem is, this doesn't really happen and only really in the fans minds. If you scrub out knowing that the occasional mistake will happen e.g. giving too long/too short for advantage.

Most inconsistent refereeing perception is usually due to false equivalency taking one incident to be exactly the same as every incident.
Or "observer bias" as it's technically known
 

TRF_stormer2010

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One cannot account for that for sure but there comes a point where it goes beyond pure bias. I'm not saying its just SA of course either. Every nation will be able to name more than 1 game I am sure. Another game off the top of my head is for instance France v NZ 2011. France got the short end there on more than just a few calls. Its those types of games that are a blotch on the game. And its not as if I am saying the referees intentionally call it differently in these instances (though Bryce Lawrence has me wearing a foil cap). Its the pressure probably. How does one take the pressure off of referees in game. I'd argue more transparency after the fact actually take away pressure rather than heaps it on. Comments from coaches in the lead up should be one thing. And not just the likes of Rassie. Even the more overt jibes from the likes of Gatland and EJ shouldn't be tolerated. I keep getting back to captain's referrals. It takes massive pressure off of the referees in the games I've seen it trialed. But then the refs really have to give respect to each captain.
 
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