South Africa v New Zealand. 21 Aug 2010. What is your prediction?

[KGB1998]

Now I know it was John Smit's big day and he so wanted to play the whole 80 minutes in his 100th game, but he was visibly stuffed with 15 minutes to go, and I wonder if he wouldn't have been better being replaced because I think he was the one who missed the tackle on Ma'a Nonu whose break led to Dagg's winning try.

I agree with you, but personally I think John should retire from international rugby. He still has the heart and mind for the game, but his body isn't physically and fitness wise on par to compete at the highest level. He has achieved and won virtually everything in proffesional rugby (World Cup, Tri-Nations, Series win over British & Irish Lions, Currie Cup and today 100 test caps) and I feel that players such as Bismarck Du Plessis and even Chilliboy Rallapele are currently much better hookers than him. However I have sneaky suspicion that as long as Peter De Villiers is Coach, John Smit wont retire.

 

[Sam Owen]

I agree with you, but personally I think John should retire from international rugby. He still has the heart and mind for the game, but his body isn't physically and fitness wise on par to compete at the highest level. He has achieved and won virtually everything in proffesional rugby (World Cup, Tri-Nations, Series win over British & Irish Lions, Currie Cup and today 100 test caps) and I feel that players such as Bismarck Du Plessis and even Chilliboy Rallapele are currently much better hookers than him. However I have sneaky suspicion that as long as Peter De Villiers is Coach, John Smit wont retire.

You know I read on here some people think PDV is clever for taking away the spotlight from John Smit by making himself (PDV) look bad in the media???...smart move?... I dont think so.

 

[Saffa]

The fact is that the Springboks are not fit enough to play the type of game they are trying to play. If you want to play without the ball and tackle the whole time then you have to be way fitter than the opposition. By then end of the game they couldn't maintain the amazing defence of the first 50-60 minutes. Also they couldn't take advantage of the break down - no real fetcher (get well soon Heinrich!!). The worst mistakes on the day were 2 kicking errors by Steyn and that's all it takes to lose a test match. One or two crucial errors will turn the tide.

That said at least it was a tight game - a way better performance than the previous games.

Full credit to the All Blacks - they deserved to win the 3N. It is fitting that Richie should score the try that turned the tide. McCaw must be one of the best, if not the best, players ever to have picked up the oval ball. If they can play like this in the World Cup they will win it for sure. And it's scary from a bok supporter's point of view to think that Carter isn't even playing his best!!! If he starts firing too.....holy macaroni...!!!!!!

 

[squirrel]

smit has to go, or at least step away and re-evaluate things

 

[Saffa]

Could be, but read it in the paper tomorrow and it'll still be a win. :lol:

Because if it's in the papers it must be true.

 

[Sker]

Just like the internet, it's a law or something

Seriously though, after the match my heart broke for John Smit, everyone's been bashing him the past few days, claiming he doesn't deserve the Springbok jersey.

He is a legend and I know I have a huge amount of respect for him as a supporter. Shame man.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Also Nigel's arm is in a sling because of it :lol:

 

[smartcooky]

Someone thought Burger's try was dodgy? Looked like a precise call by Rolland, and Owens confirmed with him and did the right thing.

I thought it was dodgy as he was brought down and stopped well short of the line. i.e., not within range of reaching out to ground the ball, then suddenly he's closer and can reach out to score. Suspicious, but I guess that is leveled out by the possible forward pass leading up to McCaw's try

On McCaw's try, the video ref said, "No clear evidence that the foot was in touch before the ball was grounded. You may award the try." My guess was foot out simultaneous with grounding, therefore no try. But it was very difficult to judge, so they use a kind of burden of proof system - outcome seemed fair to me.

Yes, simultaneous grounding and foot in touch-in-goal would be ruled in touch - Law 22.3(b) - therefore no try. However, what he said is that he was "unsure" and that is not the same as simultaneous. In the end, he was a South African TMO, and he had to make a difficult call. To call it in touch first, he must see that it was in touch first, if its neither, then he must NOT make it up, or say what he thinks might have happened. He has to say what he said, and allow the try to be awarded.

 

[KGB1998]

You know I read on here some people think PDV is clever for taking away the spotlight from John Smit by making himself (PDV) look bad in the media???...smart move?... I dont think so.

No you're right. I'm a big Springbok supporter and I feel that Peter De Villiers have been showing for a while that he hasn't got the pedigree to coach or manage a big international rugby team as the Springboks. My reasons being the follow. Firstly in 2008 his first year as coach, he wanted to achieve a new 'attacking' brand of rugby for the Springboks: the result after the success of 2007 RWC, the Springboks ended last in that years Tri-Nations (drawing a blank against NZ at Newlands) Secondly during the first test against the 2009 B&I Lions he brought on nearly all of his subs for the final 15 minutes of the test: The result: SA almost lost the test when they should have won comfortably. Thirdly, his obstinance in selecting Ruan Pienaar as flyhalf when the latter are much better at playing scrumhalf. The result: One of the best Rugby talents in the world not knowing what his best position is in the Springbok team. Fourthly, his continuation of John Smit as prop ultimately backfired on the 2009 European tour. The result: The French murdering the Boks scrum and Boks losing (again) against Ireland. And lastly the poor managing of currently the best individual players in the world by making poor selection, selecting players out of position and his infatuation with 'what John Smit did for our country' and not what he currently 'does' for the Springboks which is an overweight unfit player who is well past his 'sell by date.' That is only some of the few problems I have with Peter De Villiers.

 

[KGB1998]

I believe that if the Springboks are seriously contemplating in defending their World Crown in RWC 2011, then Allister Coetzee should coach the Boks and Schalk Burger must be made Springbok captain. I think as a player he has 'grown up' in terms of his discipline. He leads by example by always giving 110% on the field and if the rest of his team can follow his example then the Boks will be hard to beat. He has a good relationship with the media (although not with the Irish Media) and he has played over 50 caps with the Boks so why not? What do you guys think?

 

[*Axe*]

Really happy that SA turned up, and boy they did. The 'Boks showed a tremendous attitude on defence. But what a test!
I thought Carter's kicking out of the hand was good, but his running and passing was superb. And when your 12 & 13 have near flawless games, it certainly makes for a good backline. Brad Thorn was his usual epic self. For the 'Boks Smith was good as was Hougaard. But their whole team lifted thir game very well.
Hard one to take for the 'Boks, it is the best they have been so far and it wasn't enough.
Also, any thoughts on a sighting for Juan Smith? might be a little tough, but that wasn't an accidental nudge on the ref. Might be throwing petrol on the fire, but i think it is worthy of a little discussion...

 

[madflyhalf]

I believe that if the Springboks are seriously contemplating in defending their World Crown in RWC 2011, then Allister Coetzee should coach the Boks and Schalk Burger must be made Springbok captain. I think as a player he has 'grown up' in terms of his discipline. He leads by example by always giving 110% on the field and if the rest of his team can follow his example then the Boks will be hard to beat. He has a good relationship with the media (although not with the Irish Media) and he has played over 50 caps with the Boks so why not? What do you guys think?

Whatever you said!
Burger's discipline improvement during his captaincy at the Stormers this season is clear.
The other one who can lead the Boks could be Juan Smith, but I think he is a bit too older (though only +2 than Burger), which it rules him out from a long term leadership...

Ah yeah... FDP, but he is a natural leader, he doesn't even need an official role to rule the team!


BTW, All Blacks are fantastic... I just want to watch'em again winning a match without:
- clearly forward pass before a try :huh:
- no yellow card for professional fouls
- easy card for any opponents

this would be great and would be "Justice for ABs"
:lol:

 

[smartcooky]

Also, any thoughts on a sighting for Juan Smith? might be a little tough, but that wasn't an accidental nudge on the ref. Might be throwing petrol on the fire, but i think it is worthy of a little discussion...

I wouldn't have thought so. Owens ran right in front of him; what was he supposed to do, just crash into him instead?

Having said that, there was a player who did something similar in the NH (last season's Top 14 I think) and he flattened the referee (Owens again?) but it was a lot more blatant.


EDIT

Here it is... Brian Mujati push on Nigel Owens for Saints v Perpignan in the HC

[video=youtube;u6VFvT2OhTw&start=25]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VFvT2OhTw&start=25[/video]


Mujati coped a six week suspension for that!!

 

[shtove]

Also Nigel's arm is in a sling because of it :lol:

Hmmm, needs some answers from SA 7 - not on.

 

[southseasman]

Congrats to the AB's for a fine win against the Bok's (on SA soil). We all knew it was going to be tough. All credit to the AB's coaching staff who have done a tremendous job preparing the lads mentally and physically. It was the AB's belief in their abilities and superior fitness that eventually got us home in the end. Great to see the Bok's throw their bodies on the line...no doubt future games will be tougher. Lets hope that all the hoopla about conspiracy, declaration of war, pulling out of SANZAR are left in the past. It's the players that come first.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Nigel Owen is the ultimate legend, straight back on his feet! Respect x10000

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Because if it's in the papers it must be true.

Well, it'll also go down in the history books as an All Blacks win too. What's that? History books aren't always accurate either? True, but what are we going to do, sit down and go through all history's rugby matches and say, "this side should've won on this day because of this issue. This other side should've won, but the rules weren't fair at the time"?

Unless your a complete revisionist, it's as I said to the couple of complainers earlier "it'll go down as an All Blacks win, like it or not". :lol:

(Though most South Africans have been extremely gracious this time to be honest).

 

[nickdnz]

I think I'm a bad person, because I receive such a warm and fuzzy feeling when seeing an opposition captain crying...(no one mention the RWC QF).

I think people who will complain about this match, really are missing out on what was an amazing specticle. The All Blacks always looked as good as South Africa, and in the last 10 minutes, they looked better. It was close, and in a stadium with 94,500 people, there is no better way to have a win. Good game and an effort that South Africa can be really proud of.

 

[admartian]

I have purposely missed the rest of the thread due to inevitable wrongly and unjustified, whinging and excuse making.

But what a game!

Great Bok performance, but fell asleep against the ABs when they (wrongly) thought the job was done.

 

[admartian]

Great game , congrats to the ABs supporters, John smit looked like a broken man at the end , so sad. You still a Bok Great John , hold your hear up high. Mccaw was fantastic again so was Carter but whats up with the easy misses ? Said that once the Abs get penalized for slowing the ball down it will be a different game but once again congrats to them.

Lastly Schalb Burger is KING !! MOTM 50/50 him or Mccaw.

Carter's been missing easy ones, kinda typical of him now. But susually expect him to make the hard ones. Still an asset all around though.

Awesome performance Boks, and I thought gameplan of kicking DEEP into the stands was particularly smart. Still, dangerous backline with Dagg, Mils, Joe, and Jane whenever they do get the ball.

I would love to see the Boks with more direction from Morne - who is an excellent kicker/defender, but not much nous with direction/leadership and attacking.

Boks miss FDP.

Glad to see a much improved performance from SA. I see the Boks winning out the rest of their games this year, and particularly to demolish Australia (Pocock is but one man against Burger, Louw, Juan Smith, Russouw etc).

ABs got penalised a lot early on at the breakdown - we were thinking Yellow Soon! But they're smart, they adapt to the ref. Cannot fault them. Or else it was very clever of them to crush Nigel Owens in a ruck and dislodge his rugby brain.

Looking back on this, the Steyn overkicks were very important because SA never had the intention of making that territory with ball in hand. They were forced in the last few minutes to keep it in hand, and de Villiers got snagged in midfield leaving SA with no idea what to do.

Someone thought Burger's try was dodgy? Looked like a precise call by Rolland, and Owens confirmed with him and did the right thing. On McCaw's try, the video ref said, "No clear evidence that the foot was in touch before the ball was grounded. You may award the try." My guess was foot out simultaneous with grounding, therefore no try. But it was very difficult to judge, so they use a kind of burden of proof system - outcome seemed fair to me.

Haven't followed the ABs closely, just the Ireland tests and these past few matches. They have great ability to dart down one wing, then sweep across to the other with an outrageous overlap - McCaw today (Habana absolutely stuffed in the choice he had to make) and the fat prop in the first half, but the best was on right wing against Aus (scored by same prop?). The scrum is a widowmaker. Defence seems good (but 5 tries for Ireland). Only weakness is the long lineout?

Juan Smith pushed Nigel Owens into the play which resulted in the collision - so it was the Boks. (Not saying it was particularly foul or wrong - I don't think it was, but just saying it wasn't an AB conspiracy )