Springboks vs Wallabies, July 24th 2010, Third Tri Nations Test

[Haysie]

His fingers are clearly bent when around Pocock's eyes, either in a raking or a gouging motion. If you use the same motion at Burger used on your own eyes, it hurts like buggery and is definitely a rake. We are looking at a long-time ban here.

 

[smartcooky]

His fingers are clearly bent when around Pocock's eyes, either in a raking or a gouging motion. If you use the same motion at Burger used on your own eyes, it hurts like buggery and is definitely a rake. We are looking at a long-time ban here.

Oooh ****, that does look worse than I thought. I hadn't seen that angle before now.

Very surprised that wasn't cited, however, it has to be said that Pocock did not react like a man who'd received an eye-poking!

 

[Amobokoboko]

Well maybe they will give a verdict tomorrow.
The Springboks are getting in deeper problems

 

[iWin]

Good to see the consistency of both tackles getting a ban. Cooper perhaps getting a lighter ban because of his cleaner record? or maybe because it wasn't as far tipped over but 2 weeks difference is not too much to me.
Burger shows once again that he can't control himself when being outplayed. He and Pocock had a great battle all through the match and Pocock won it. Surprised that doesn't get him cited, particularly with his record that should have been 40-70 weeks.
Honestly not sure how citings come around. Does an independent body go through the game and pick bits out, or do cases have to be brought forward by the teams?

 

[Sam Owen]

Burgers hand was bent like a cobras head and even striked at Pococks eyes like a cobra. Its silly stuff and if Pococks eyes were harmed maybe a lifetime ban for Burger would be the least of Pococks problems but a ban none the less. Burger needs to control his aggression to stay within the boundries of rugby because hes such a good player and a big blow for the Springboks if they lose him at this time where the boks arent doing too good.

 

[madflyhalf]

I feel like a French football supporter right now.

A dumb ass coach (PdV vs. Domenech)
3 horrible matches
Veteran players who arent good enough anymore (Smit vs. Henry)
Some of the best players not being called up (Steyn vs. Benzema)

And I can go on and on. The similarities are shocking!

There are too many players who are either not good enough or over the hill.

ahaha, I think I can do the same with Italian soccer team!
I think in these case, the failure of your campaign is the only possible result!

Ah, mate I disagree with you upon Fourie, you say SA should let him home next matches (well, actually they're gonna do because of the ban ), but I think JF has been the only Springbok 3/4 who has played quite well yesterday!


What about Butch James?
Yeah, he is old, maybe quarrelsome, but for me, he still has vision of the game that Morné Steyn doesn't have (and I think that SA played better with James on the pitch!), for me until Du Preez is out, Morné Steyn is useless even with his kicking!
Try James 10, he's always on the front foot and doesn't start the attack from the pocket!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I'd imagine refs have been told that any lifting tackle of any sort should be punished with a yellow card (at least), because the assistance ref was certain about the cards.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

SA want to increase their discipline. Butch James doesn't fit that bill.

Plus the very fact that Pienaar missed two kicks could've been telling in the end, they suffered after taking Steyn off.

 

[nickdnz]

His fingers are clearly bent when around Pocock's eyes, either in a raking or a gouging motion. If you use the same motion at Burger used on your own eyes, it hurts like buggery and is definitely a rake. We are looking at a long-time ban here.

I was just looking for this video. I agree at least a 40 week ban, especially if the IRB want consistancy. Yes it will be a big blow to the Boks, but this kind of dirty play, especially coming from someone who only last year received a ban for the same type of thing, then 40 weeks is a minimum in my opinion. It would show a terrible double standard to several big french bans if this isn't a very long ban.

 

[smartcooky]

Good to see the consistency of both tackles getting a ban. Cooper perhaps getting a lighter ban because of his cleaner record? or maybe because it wasn't as far tipped over but 2 weeks difference is not too much to me.
Burger shows once again that he can't control himself when being outplayed. He and Pocock had a great battle all through the match and Pocock won it. Surprised that doesn't get him cited, particularly with his record that should have been 40-70 weeks.
Honestly not sure how citings come around. Does an independent body go through the game and pick bits out, or do cases have to be brought forward by the teams?

Here is the relevant extract from iRB Regulation 17. A link to the full document is attached

17.6.2 When a Citing Commissioner is appointed, the following policy shall apply:
(a) Citing Commissioners shall be entitled to cite a player for any act or acts of Illegal and/or Foul Play which in the opinion of the Citing Commissioner warranted the Player concerned being Ordered Off;

(b) Citing Commissioners may cite Players for an act or acts of Illegal and/or Foul Play even where such act or acts may have been detected by the referee and/or touch judge and which may have been the subject of action taken by the referee and/or touch judge. A Citing Commissioner may not, however, cite a Player for an act or acts of Illegal and/or Foul Play in respect of which the Player has been Ordered Off;

(c) A Player may be cited by the Citing Commissioner if he has been Temporarily Suspended. Such citing may be made in respect of the incident or incidents for which the Player was Temporarily Suspended or otherwise;

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?b1kkxv1zsr3ck52

 

[iWin]

Thanks for that

 

[Haysie]

A Citing Commissioner may not, however, cite a Player for an act or acts of Illegal and/or Foul Play in respect of which the Player has been Ordered Off;

Cooky, does this mean that a player who has been red carded and sent from the field of play cannot be cited?
If so, who becomes the adjudicator?

 

[smartcooky]

I'd imagine refs have been told that any lifting tackle of any sort should be punished with a yellow card (at least), because the assistance ref was certain about the cards.

You are correct. Read this post.....

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/...i-Nations-Test&p=331982&viewfull=1#post331982

essentially, they are to START at a red card, and work down.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well... Let's see which players represented the Boks...

Zane Kirchner- Not good enough
Gio Aplon - Good back-up for Pietersen
Jaque Fourie - Highly overrated
Wynand Olivier - Not good enough
Bryan Habana - Hasn't shown his skills lately but in my opinion good enough
Morne Steyn - Not used to playing without Du Preez, says enough
Ruan Pienaar - Underestimated player. Multi-functional player
Pierre Spies - Physical strenght, speed but needs the right players around him
Ryan Kankowski - Deserves a real chance
Schalk Burger - Criminal in a rugby jersey
Victor Matfield - Having a bad phase in his career. Hope he bounces back
Danie Rossouw - Best option for the nr. 4
BJ Botha - Not good enough but with the tons of injuries, we don't have any better
John Smit - He might be a captain but he's changed from a big hooker into a fat hooker, and not the 5 dollar street-corner type
Gurthro Steenkamp - Is okay

Player that deserve a chance besides these 15:

Patrick Lambie
Francois Steyn
Gerhard van den Heever
Keegan Daniel
Francois Hougaard
Bjorn Basson
Craig Burden
Dean Greyling
Dewaldt Duvenhage

Then we still have players like JP Pietersen, Juan Smith, Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis and Mtawarira who missed out on this because of injuries or other affairs.

There's a lot of talent but you have to use it to give them the experience that can make them better for the World Cup next year.

 

[iWin]

Well... Let's see which players represented the Boks...

Zane Kirchner- Not good enough
Gio Aplon - Good back-up for Pietersen
Jaque Fourie - Highly overrated
Wynand Olivier - Not good enough
Bryan Habana - Hasn't shown his skills lately but in my opinion good enough
Morne Steyn - Not used to playing without Du Preez, says enough
Ruan Pienaar - Underestimated player. Multi-functional player
Pierre Spies - Physical strenght, speed but needs the right players around him
Ryan Kankowski - Deserves a real chance
Schalk Burger - Criminal in a rugby jersey
Victor Matfield - Having a bad phase in his career. Hope he bounces back
Danie Rossouw - Best option for the nr. 4
BJ Botha - Not good enough but with the tons of injuries, we don't have any better
John Smit - He might be a captain but he's changed from a big hooker into a fat hooker, and not the 5 dollar street-corner type
Gurthro Steenkamp - Is okay

Player that deserve a chance besides these 15:

Patrick Lambie
Francois Steyn
Gerhard van den Heever
Keegan Daniel
Francois Hougaard
Bjorn Basson
Craig Burden
Dean Greyling
Dewaldt Duvenhage

Then we still have players like JP Pietersen, Juan Smith, Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis and Mtawarira who missed out on this because of injuries or other affairs.

There's a lot of talent but you have to use it to give them the experience that can make them better for the World Cup next year.

You wouldn't have Bekker ahead of Rossouw?
I think that SA really need to get themselves a real 2nd choice 9. Janurie and Pienaar don't seem good enough to me but no-one else has experience and so they are really suffering there.

 

[smartcooky]

Cooky, does this mean that a player who has been red carded and sent from the field of play cannot be cited?
If so, who becomes the adjudicator?

Yes. A red carded player is automatically going in front of the Judiciary. That is covered under 17.8 Initial Procedures Ordering Off later in the document. There is a very specific set of procedures that must be followed by the referee. Effectively, a red carded player has been cited by the referee.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Well... Let's see which players represented the Boks...

Zane Kirchner- Not good enough
Gio Aplon - Good back-up for Pietersen
Jaque Fourie - Highly overrated
Wynand Olivier - Not good enough
Bryan Habana - Hasn't shown his skills lately but in my opinion good enough
Morne Steyn - Not used to playing without Du Preez, says enough
Ruan Pienaar - Underestimated player. Multi-functional player
Pierre Spies - Physical strenght, speed but needs the right players around him
Ryan Kankowski - Deserves a real chance
Schalk Burger - Criminal in a rugby jersey
Victor Matfield - Having a bad phase in his career. Hope he bounces back
Danie Rossouw - Best option for the nr. 4
BJ Botha - Not good enough but with the tons of injuries, we don't have any better
John Smit - He might be a captain but he's changed from a big hooker into a fat hooker, and not the 5 dollar street-corner type
Gurthro Steenkamp - Is okay

Player that deserve a chance besides these 15:

Patrick Lambie
Francois Steyn
Gerhard van den Heever
Keegan Daniel
Francois Hougaard
Bjorn Basson
Craig Burden
Dean Greyling
Dewaldt Duvenhage

Then we still have players like JP Pietersen, Juan Smith, Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis and Mtawarira who missed out on this because of injuries or other affairs.

There's a lot of talent but you have to use it to give them the experience that can make them better for the World Cup next year.

Remarkable how often you mention F.Steyn as one of the players you would like to see in a Boks jersey again.
Due to club obligations I don't think he will be back for the remaining Tri nations and for me, please don't take this personal, he didn't had such a outstanding season.
the most important thing the Boks need to do now is getting things straight in the team, playing fair so they don't lose a player every game due to a card.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

You wouldn't have Bekker ahead of Rossouw?
I think that SA really need to get themselves a real 2nd choice 9. Janurie and Pienaar don't seem good enough to me but no-one else has experience and so they are really suffering there.

Bekker and Rossouw is not that much of a difference. Boh better than Bakkies though. For instance, they won't be banned for weeks every year.

Ruan Pienaar is a good stand-in for du Preez but I prefer Duvenhage there and Pienaar as a back-up if Du Preez is not available. Pienaar however, can play as fly-half and full back as well so should be called up no matter what. Multi-functional top players on the bench is a privilege you should take advantage of.

Januarie is horrible. He is not even first choice at his club

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Remarkable how often you mention F.Steyn as one of the players you would like to see in a Boks jersey again.
Due to club obligations I don't think he will be back for the remaining Tri nations and for me, please don't take this personal, he didn't had such a outstanding season.
the most important thing the Boks need to do now is getting things straight in the team, playing fair so they don't lose a player every game due to a card.

And why is Butch James part of the squad then? CJ van der Linde? They play in Europe.

 

[Sam Owen]

Why is their no Francois Steyn?...

Mr de Villiers please invite Francois to your house, make the best tea youve ever made in your life, have a sip and then out of the blue and in a sudden get down on your knees and beg Francois to play for your team.

I dont know what the real reason Francois is not a Springbok but if its something between de Villiers and him they should so it out. It'll be great to see Steyn back especially while hes in-form and young,