Startign 23 for next season

[j'nuh]

That team on paper should get at least top 4.

Very contentious statement, but I think they should be challenging. I think it to be a fight between Quins, Glos and Bath for that 4th spot, with the others to make up 5th-6th, Exe pushing at 6. Wasps have fallen somewhat and imo are weaker than last season. Irish and Worcester are more looking at relegation than top 6. Don't think Sale will break top 6, but I don't see them in the relegation battle this year either. Not sure about Newcastle.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then duck!

 

[Peat]

I have to say, I would not be surprised in the slightest if Henson did nail down a starting berth, at 10 if not 12. He is very much definitely better than both Heathcote and Ford at this stage of their careers. Also think Caldwell might feature a lot, think Guy Mercer is lucky if he features as much as Rats mentions.

I'd also reverse Daly and Masi in Henry's line-up, and ask why no Poff?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I would be, particularly at 10.
The situation with Heathcote and Ford is a strange one already, they will have to handle it fairly carefully I would have thought.
What with Heathcote putting his hand up as the best 10 at the club last season, and Ford leaving Leicester specifically for more game time.
Then you add in that Heathcote had to play second choice to Ford in the Eng age groups, and now will be under pressure from the SRU to get game time/move north.

I don't doubt that they want Ford to be their first choice in the future, and that they will have recognised that Heathcote's international career necessitates that he will have to move north at some point. (He'll be under pressure to anyway)
But I don't think they will want to light the match by making Heathcote frustrated. It's entirely possible that this is going to be Heathcote's last season with Bath, particularly if he goes well in the 6N.
I can see Henson being the starter when Heathcote goes off for the 6N, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, especially if Ford manages to raise his game to where most people wanted it to be at this stage.
Bath may decide he needs more conditioning work too, as he still looks fairly immature physically (which is understandable, given that his much talked about bulking last year only lasted a couple of months).
Although I think this pre-season should have him reaching there or thereabouts his potential (in a very unscientific estimation ), so it shouldn't be an issue.

Having said that, if Bath see this as Heathcote's last season, then they will want Ford to be in a position to be their first choice 10 at the start of next season.
I don't think they will want to rely on someone so prone to injury/controversy as Henson.

I agree on Mercer, he will certainly not be nailed on if he can't improve his consistency this season.
He was very prone to handling errors and giving away penalties at the ruck last season, he was impressive when he played well though.
Attwood has his starting slot nailed on barring some calamitous drop in form (or another ban), but the other shirt is definitely up for grabs.
Dom Day was very impressive last season, and was probably unlucky not to get some sort of recognition from the WRU. But he isn't the most well rounded player.
There should also be plenty of opportunity now that Atters is (probably) going to be away during the 6N.

What Bath certainly have now though, is depth.
They had it to a certain degree before, but the drop in quality between their first choice and their replacement was particularly noticeable.

 

[Draggs]

Yeah, I am not fully convinced by Heathcote. I think his biggest asset was not being Stephen Donald (who did look good at some points near the end of the season). He will be a good standoff, and certainly ahead of Jackson and probably the Barrel for Scotland. I see him leaving for Scotland within two seasons, Bath will want to use their foreign players in other positions (and probably try to keep ahold of Louw, as unlikely as it will be). Going to follow Bath more closely this season, they have been my Prem team of choice lately.

I wouldn't play Ford and Eastmond together yet. Not saying smaller players can't do it, but they will be targeted constantly (Eastmond is a good defender though). Furthermore, they are both relatively inexperienced. Bath really have some cracking players to select, let down only with inside half options.

 

[Peat]

I agree with what a lot of you say Rats, but to me there's a very simple equation - Henson, if he is fit and wants it, is a far superior player to either at this stage. Bath want those players to develop, they want those players to be their future, but if Henson is seen as a big difference between winning and losing he'll play, regardless of other circs... and I see that as a distinct possibility.

 

[j'nuh]

I agree with what a lot of you say Rats, but to me there's a very simple equation - Henson, if he is fit and wants it, is a far superior player to either at this stage. Bath want those players to develop, they want those players to be their future, but if Henson is seen as a big difference between winning and losing he'll play, regardless of other circs... and I see that as a distinct possibility.

I think it's a lot more of a balancing act than you'd think. Not playing young players stifles their progress. eg, Glos didn't extend Robinson's contract in order to develop Burns and imo it was well worth it. And we've seen how Twelvetrees has gone from strength-to-strength by having regular time in his best position. There's the Dan Robson/Ben Spencer thing too: Robson understudies Spencer at U20 level, and then soars past him at senior level because he gets the game time. Launchbury and Kvesic were possibly the fastest improving players last season, and imo that's in part down to the amount of game time they received.

I would personally start the season with Ford at 10. (Henson at 12/13 possibly.) If after a few games he is obviously struggling, then I'd probably move Henson in. The key to keeping a squad happy is rotation really.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So I was going to post the likely Wasps 23, but then I glimpsed the Saints one and got depressed/jealous, so now I won't bother

...Ok, so maybe I will

1. Mullan
2. Lindsay
3. Swainston
4. Launchbury
5. Myall
6. Ash-monster
7. Jones
8. (Nathan) Hughes

9. Simpson
10. Goode
11. Varndell
12. Bell
13. Daly
14. Wade
15. Masi

16. McIntyre
17. Taylor
18. Cochrane
19. Cannon
20. Haskell/Guy Thompson
21. Moates/Davies
22. Carlisle
23. (Tommy) Bell / Lee Thomas

From going name by name through our squad the overriding theme is.. **** off Tim Payne and Hugo Southwell. And Haskell/Palmer if they don't bring some better form to the table.

I think Wasps are steadily getting a better and better squad together, i don't know why but i always want Wasps to do well (maybe it was them detroying the Tigers all those years ago).
So Haskell and Palmer who both must be on big salarys havent really shown anything. No idea why we let Cannon go as he has turned into a great club player.

You have so much talent with Thomas, bell, Masi, Daly, little Bell it's just fitting them all in th ebackline that will be the problem!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Just thought I'd amend my choice of Nick Abendanon as Bath's 15, as he's going to be injured for some time from what I can make out...

There are a few possibilities when replacing him.

1.) Ollie Devoto continues to fill in there. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen, he was seriously shown up for pace on occasions last season.

2.) Anthony Watson. This would probably be the most entertaining option, I don't know what Bath intend to do with him though. (Wing, FB, LV cup?)

3.) Henson. Again, I don't know whether they would want him to play there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They should, IMO, take a punt on Watson.
Always thought his best position was 15 - would be a bit of a risk having someone as green as he is straight in at 15, but he's insanely talented, so why not?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah, especially as it seems he's the long term successor to Abendanon.

 

[j'nuh]

Just thought I'd amend my choice of Nick Abendanon as Bath's 15, as he's going to be injured for some time from what I can make out...

There are a few possibilities when replacing him.

1.) Ollie Devoto continues to fill in there. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen, he was seriously shown up for pace on occasions last season.

2.) Anthony Watson. This would probably be the most entertaining option, I don't know what Bath intend to do with him though. (Wing, FB, LV cup?)

3.) Henson. Again, I don't know whether they would want him to play there.

There's also Eastmond and Agulla.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Agulla will be away in Argentina, and Eastmond is a center

 

[j'nuh]

Indeed with Agulla. I know Eastmond's a centre, but him playing fullback has been mooted for a while, and it may happen to accommodate Henson...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think he needs continuity at IC, and as has already been demonstrated Henson should not be relied upon.
Particularly if it inhibits someone else gaining experience.

 

[Peat]

I'd also point out that I'd expect Ed Jackson to play 8 for Wasps ahead of Nathan Hughes.

 

[j'nuh]

Sale:
10. Danny Cipriani
15. Rob Miller

Out of interest, do you think there's much of a chance of seeing Miller move back to 10? There was a rumour floating around that it was his preferred position.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think so - not long term, anyway. He may well cover there in the case of injury, but can't see it beyond that - especially with Ford signing.
It used to be his preferred position when he first joined, but then Foden's preferred position, for a loooooong time, was scrumhalf - he's since said he loves playing 15.
He's looked decent enough when we've played him there, but he's a far better fullback, and with us having 3 fulltime 10s and an academy 10 starting to get gametime at the end of last season, it'd take a lot for him to make his way back there - always handy having a player who can cover 10 though.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Peat - Poff is leaving Wasps this season. I know this isn't on the Wasps wiki but it's been understood for a while, think he's going back to New Zealand(In same way we all knew Taulafo was going to Stade for weeks and weeks whilst he was totally denying it on twitter!). Now I think back to it, it's possible he just isn't being offered a new contract. My opinion? Not terribly bothered - he's had a handful of storming games but most of those were last season - in our wins against Sarries and Tiggers for example. His game is more the 'make a bloody nusiance of yourself' type 7 than anything else, which is all very well but you actually have to do it. I think Sam Jones' all-round game - carrying, fetching, rucking - is already better than Poff's - and then there's still Haskell, if he can be arsed to do something other than the gym! So for most 'Drunken Waspies' Poff would have little chance of featuring anyway, 'specially with the new boys

I'd also point out that I'd expect Ed Jackson to play 8 for Wasps ahead of Nathan Hughes.

I actually agree, I think - v. excited about Jackson - however, it may take him longer to get into the squad, as he's going to have to adapt bearing in mind the cha......*

* Wait, just realised you're not talking about who I think your'e talking about . I thought you were referring to Guy Thompson. But Jackson I can't say I know, would be interested to hear if you or others have any views on the guy? Think the only Welsh game I watched this season was when Wasps had our wicked way with them

 

[Peat]

I only saw bits of him, but was impressed, thought he was a stand-out before it all went sour for LW - good athlete, makes yards, scores tries... I'm looking forwards to seeing how he goes with a better platform.