The Autopsy thread: Which England team members are for the chopping block?

[ncurd]

Not upset, no. In fact, every time I see garbage like that, it makes me smile.

Yeah but all I forgot to do was clarify when I used the collective "we" I was referring to united kingdom as a whole....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yeah but all I forgot to do was clarify when I used the collective "we" I was referring to united kingdom as a whole....

He's a Scot with a chip on his shoulder, reason doesn't apply.

 

[Peat]

If anyone really wants to continue this topic please take it elsewhere.

 

[TJAY]

Lancaster has a contract with England until 2020 and says he will take a full part in the post-World Cup review with the aim of making improvements.

"There will be a lot made out of the review that is to come," he said. "I have no problem with the reviews.

"I've conducted them myself in age grade teams and after every tournament or Six Nations. The whole purpose of them is to get better."

I think it's time to review the reviews system.

 

[Isengard]

For me it's more a case of the All Blacks spent four years introducing the guys who he felt were the best fit - into the starting line up straight from 2012. Julian Savea, Aaron Smith, Brodie Retallick, Ben Smith, Aaron Cruden, Dane Coles.

These guys filled the gap left by guys Thorn, Weepu, Kahui, Hore etc, etc. He then went on to establish a bench; Cane, Barrett, Peranara, Piatau.

But what you will notice is - aside from right winger - the majority of the squad and its pecking order has been pretty well established - with the a bit of room added for who is third or fourth choice.

It's not that England introduced too many players in my opinion. It's that after four years he didn't know who his best players were. Players weren't added to the squad and slowly given opportunities; they were thrown in as starters with other inexperienced players - and then the squad was gutted when they didn't all of a sudden perform like experienced world class players.

People wonder how Sam Cane has so many caps? It's because he has been blooded carefully, mainly used from the bench, and built up his skill set and confidence without the pressure of being first choice and his squad position on the line. There is a clear succession plan in place.

What happens if Robshaw is injured? Is Kvesic now the starting 7? What happens if in his first 6 Nations match - he starts and has a bad game? Is he replaced with Haskell/Clarke/another player who has a bit of experience but ultimately a low cealing?

This is absolutely spot on!

A good international quality manager would have developed a system or a series of systems which can be deployed against varying oppositions. These should be clearly communicated to the players. The All Blacks play a certain way and players brought in can slot in. Lancaster, because he has no real high level coaching experience had not developed a system. He had lots of ideas based on "the score will look after itself" and other jargon filled books but no actual practical experience. Therefore he has not developed a way of playing, a settled line up, etc.

We need a coach who will come in with a way of playing. Who will pick his best available line up and stick with it, only replacing players when it is compelling to do so. Also they need to pick players who are good in their natural positions not pick players based on work rate, tackling and willingness to stick to rigid instructions then shoehorning them in. No place for the likes of Barrit, players should be chosen for positive and not negative reasons. He had three years and should have been in a position to pretty much name his starting XV for the pool games at least a year ago, with contingencies, etc and known how they would play. Tinkering in the warm up games was a sign of failure.

 

[Willodell100]

I think it's time to review the reviews system.

Yeah there has tonnes of articles questioning Lancaster's judgement but Andrew was one of very few men that picked Robinson, Ashton, Johnson & Lancaster.

I'm not sure why the press haven't picked this up but he should be the first to go in my opinion.

I have a nagging suspicion Lancaster will be used as the fall guy just like Robinson, Ashton & Johnson before him. The RFU will pick another yes man and everything else will stay the same.

I hope I'm wrong!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

PacDuran - Vunipola did the full 80 in the 6N everytime this year with no issues. He's fit enough. He's also lost 10kg since then, so he should be even fitter. I suspect I'd prefer it if he was even bigger instead and am curious to see what Saracens make of this.

edit edit: Speaking of weight loss, going by what the RFU says now on their site and what their club sites say/said, Dan Cole is down 5kg, Joe Marler down 6kg, TYoungs down 3kg, Dave Wilson down 1kg, Webber weighs the same, Mako's down 9kg, George weighs the same, Brookes weighs the same... Not the most reliable sources (as in nothing's reliable for how much rugby players weigh), but seems to point to a fair bit of weight lost by our first choice front row, who suddenly looked worse at scrummaging. Joe Marler in particular did not need to lose 6kg.

Lawes is also down 4kg. I too take these numbers with a pinch of salt, except that they seem to back up what my eyes were telling me. Some looked physically smaller and we saw what happened in the scrum. It's not the weight loss per se but the suspicion that some had lost power by being below their natural fighting weight.

If this really is the case I'll bet it's the product of some daft formula written by a 19 year old with a sports science A level. Whether cock up or conspiracy I have no doubt the scrum inquest will seep into the public domain eventually.

 

[barkinghooker]

I wonder what their clubs will say about the weight drops?

 

[Hulkster]

I get the impression Lancaster and his team have tried to replicate and adopt something of an NFL style approach to coaching and setting up the team.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there is a hell of a lot that can be learned from NFL, but while it is a physical collision sport, it is fundamentally different.

The most relevant difference being that it is a play-by-play game: play stops and everyone gets back into position after every tackle. There is no real broken play.

I get the impression that England are coached to within an inch of their lives, that they try to try to adopt an NFL style whereby the players are meant to he stand in the exact place the coaches tell them to in defence and use attacking moves from a set play book.

That would explain why so much emphasis is placed on what has happened in training, and why players who are more 'solid' and likely to stick to the play book seem to be preferred over more instinctive players.

Not saying this is the magical explanation to England's problems or anything like that, but I do get the impression that this is the style a lot more so than in other teams.

 

[BraidyBoy]

Are you genuinely upset? Christ.....that's one hell of a chip.

I really don't want to get into a politics debate about the structure of United Kingdom of GB & NI. The point was simply when you create a thing you generally create previledges for yourself.

Basic deficiency in English attitudes is that they forget that the United Kingdom comprises 4 sovereign countries plus various dependencies. As

- - - Updated - - -

Are you genuinely upset? Christ.....that's one hell of a chip.

I really don't want to get into a politics debate about the structure of United Kingdom of GB & NI. The point was simply when you create a thing you generally create previledges for yourself.

Basic deficiency in English attitudes is that they forget that the United Kingdom comprises 4 sovereign countries plus various dependencies. As someone with more than a little English genes I find it incredible that the Twickenham masses blast out GSOQ - a UK anthem - rather than something apposite like Jerusalem . History has moved us on - get with it !

 

[ratsapprentice]

You're ignoring the fact that English national teams have tried quite hard to establish our own separate sporting anthem.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Isn't Scotland Wales just classed as really big counties?

Like a bigger Dorset etc?

 

[BraidyBoy]

You're ignoring the fact that English national teams have tried quite hard to establish our own separate sporting anthem.

Haven't done very well , have they ?

 

[Peat]

I'll make it clearer.

Do not discuss the subject in this thread. If you want to start a new one, do so by all means, but any further replies on the subject will be deleted.

 

[ncurd]

Peat I've moved my reply to the political thread where it should be discussed. Everyone else should head that way.

Not that isn't going to end in a bunch of jingoistic nonsense.

 

[Willodell100]

Back to the England rugby team...

Who's is everyone's choice for Captain come the Six Nations opener and why?

For me no one in the current group is screaming out to be picked as captain.

 

[Hulkster]

Back to the England rugby team...

Who's is everyone's choice for Captain come the Six Nations opener and why?

For me no one in the current group is screaming out to be picked as captain.

Launchbury for me.

 

[ncurd]

I've stated my opinion on this.

No one yet...select your England squad...select your probable starters for the 5 games....select the best leader among your men from those starters. Tell those starters they are the leaders of this group as a collective.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah - should be chosen match by match, and certainly nothing more permanent than one international window.

 

[ncurd]

In two years if a dominant leader appears like a Johnson(although he many co captains) or McCaw. You can then elect a permanent captain but make it clear it's still dependant on form.