Top 10 Fullbacks

[Peat]

Essentially what your saying boils down to two things, "if you don't speak fluent french you don't understand our players" or "if you dont' speak french you can't possibly watch the top 14, and if you do you don't understand our players"

Which is just garbage.

I'm not having a pop here but you seem to think no one outside of the french speaking community watches french club rugby/top14, ESPN in the UK showed a game every week (not sure if they still do *just checked two this weekend) that's free for anyone with BT, and most people in France get canal+ with their subscription and some of us who live here even go along to the games - and not just top 14 games. (why I watched David Attoub refereee St Denis vs Courbevoie only last week).

*cough* I don't think that's true

It could quite as easily mean "It is easier for you plural to watch games from other Anglophone countries and therefore most of you watch more" or "You're more likely to have rugby following friends from other Anglophone countries and therefore discuss those countries more than France". Or maybe "You are more likely to have emotional and family ties to other Anglophone countries and therefore develop bigger interests in their rugby". Not that France is short of Britons, or that London is short of the French mind. But then, he's talking about the people in general rather than specific individuals.

Would be interesting to have a poll/thread on who's from where, what they watch and why...

 

[nickdnz]

Why who is exciting at FB? Most of em are defensive...catch...kick. Zzzz. Brown six nations player of the year..dear god.

Yes I'm a moaning Minnie and for good reason too...the free flowing game of Rugby of brilliant attacking play that I was brought up watching no longer exists. The Aus of Campese, NZ of Lomu, South Africa of Van der Westhuizen, France of Sella, England of Guscott..besides the individual brilliance of O'Driscoll only Wales has got me remotely excited in recent years. The increased emphasis on physicality over flair is to blame. The worst case is France who are unrecognisable.

I don't want to be the one to break it to you - but there are far more exciting players than O'Driscoll out there...

Have you watched a New Zealand game...besides their last one against Ireland?

It doesn't mater anyway as every national team is conveniently terrible. South Africa beat everyone this year except New Zealand - but they're not anywhere near as good as the team which was coached by Peter de Villiers from 2008-2011, clearly. Because you say so.

Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time - he could cut a team apart like no one else. But I'd be suprised if he could tear teams to shreads as effectively as he could with a modern defense. If you're so disgusted by the state of the modern game, why watch? You're clearly more into football anyway.

 

[FrenchFan]

*cough* I don't think that's true

It could quite as easily mean "It is easier for you plural to watch games from other Anglophone countries and therefore most of you watch more" or "You're more likely to have rugby following friends from other Anglophone countries and therefore discuss those countries more than France". Or maybe "You are more likely to have emotional and family ties to other Anglophone countries and therefore develop bigger interests in their rugby". Not that France is short of Britons, or that London is short of the French mind. But then, he's talking about the people in general rather than specific individuals.

Would be interesting to have a poll/thread on who's from where, what they watch and why...

I watch the Top14 because thats where I'm from and its a fantastic league. I love it. Club rugby is everything here. The 6N can have great games but with its 5 games is a pisser for value & entertainment in comparison. Compared with what the Top 14 and HCup offer, 6N is great but on my rugby horizon its a pimple on an elephant's back.

I watch the Heinecken Cup. I also watch some Super Rugby, I will also watch the Four Nations.

 

[big ginger 8]

I don't want to be the one to break it to you - but there are far more exciting players than O'Driscoll out there...

Have you watched a New Zealand game...besides their last one against Ireland?

It doesn't mater anyway as every national team is conveniently terrible. South Africa beat everyone this year except New Zealand - but they're not anywhere near as good as the team which was coached by Peter de Villiers from 2008-2011, clearly. Because you say so.

Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time - he could cut a team apart like no one else. But I'd be suprised if he could tear teams to shreads as effectively as he could with a modern defense. If you're so disgusted by the state of the modern game, why watch? You're clearly more into football anyway.

Can always count on you Nick...

Anyway please ignore he harps on with the same old tune and won't change it despite any evidence to the contrary.

 

[ruggabee]

Essentially what your saying boils down to two things, "if you don't speak fluent french you don't understand our players" or "if you dont' speak french you can't possibly watch the top 14, and if you do you don't understand our players"

That's pretty much it. Better learn some French so our eyes can see how well they're playing.

Seriously though, no one is saying Dulin is crap. I'm pretty sure most of us have agreed that he's a good player and has been a stand out for France. However, he's not there yet I don't think to be in the top 10. This has nothing to do with Anglo bias or whatever crap Ewis was on about. Guys like Fofana, Picomoles, Parra, Huget and the list goes on all get the praise they deserve with a couple of them being rated up there with the best in the world. That English-speaking defence sounds so sour. Don't worry if we make a Top 10 Centres thread Fofana will be in it.

Why who is exciting at FB? Most of em are defensive...catch...kick. Zzzz. Brown six nations player of the year..dear god.

Yes I'm a moaning Minnie and for good reason too...the free flowing game of Rugby of brilliant attacking play that I was brought up watching no longer exists. The Aus of Campese, NZ of Lomu, South Africa of Van der Westhuizen, France of Sella, England of Guscott..besides the individual brilliance of O'Driscoll only Wales has got me remotely excited in recent years. The increased emphasis on physicality over flair is to blame. The worst case is France who are unrecognisable.

Really? The Welsh are more exciting to watch than the Springboks, Wallabies, THE ALL BLACKS? And come on, O'Driscoll was great and finished off well but he hasn't been an excitement machine for a good few years now.

It's not really just the physicality that's nullified flair. It's the structure. Back in the day it was possible to throw the ball around and there would be a good chance of breaking the line. You can't do that any more and France have been an example of that. They aren't clinical and don't have enough structure to compete internationally at the moment. In my view it's because they play like how they would have played in the old days. Chuck it about and hope someone makes a break. The teams that are well drilled produce the most exciting play now because they dismantle those defensive structures and allow their exciting players to shine. The All Blacks do that the best. It's like they're one combined consciousness the way they play. There's still a lot of exciting play in modern rugby. Teams just need to be good enough.

 

[Big Ewis]

*cough* I don't think that's true

It could quite as easily mean "It is easier for you plural to watch games from other Anglophone countries and therefore most of you watch more" or "You're more likely to have rugby following friends from other Anglophone countries and therefore discuss those countries more than France". Or maybe "You are more likely to have emotional and family ties to other Anglophone countries and therefore develop bigger interests in their rugby". Not that France is short of Britons, or that London is short of the French mind. But then, he's talking about the people in general rather than specific individuals.

Would be interesting to have a poll/thread on who's from where, what they watch and why...

I'm not interested in replying to someone who calls a fact "garbage". I glanced at his reply and just gave up. Let ppl understand what they want out of other people's posts and call it garbage. This is just getting very, very tiring so I'll stop replying to those.

How do you deny the English-speaking world (Eng, Wal, Ire, Sco, Aus, NZ) has ties it doesn't nearly have with the rest of the world. You go to a party here in Doha, they're all English, Aus, Irish with a hint of American or NZ.
It's interesting to see apparently those within that world don't see it as such. I'm not calling anyone anything, or blaming aaaanyone at all. I'm just pointing out this rigid, rigid reality. As in everything, so in sports for that matter.

Back to the exact topic: it IS going to take Dulin a few more breaks and dancing around on the field bringing the ball up, more impressive catches, etc...to be noticed by the anglophone world. He's going to have to score another try on NZ, or make huge plays this summer in Australia for ppl to take notice properly.

It's certainly not "francophobic" or wtvr. It's just the way this world works.

Talk to any common Rugby fan who's, say, English - he'll know about the other UK sides, he'll know all about George North, Halfpenny, Rob Kearney, Stuart Hogg, Richie Gray etc...he'll know a lot of the Aussies and NZ'ers. The French and Italians and Argies will be more vague to him although they're all Tier 1 nations. There's undeniably this connivance, a certain complicity or at very least this knowledge of each other that just does not exist with areas like France.
France will always remain the odd side in top level Rugby. Even South Africa has the closeness of being SH with the other two SANZARs, but we are really alien and will remain that in the higher spheres of Rugby.

Same on the other side, although this is another topic. Fans in France are mostly preoccupied by the Top 14 and the XV de France (national side). There's quite a large separation from the 'other side'.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Talk to any common Rugby fan who's, say, English - he'll know about the other UK sides, he'll know all about George North, Halfpenny, Rob Kearney, Stuart Hogg, Richie Gray etc...he'll know a lot of the Aussies and NZ'ers. The French and Italians and Argies will be more vague to him although they're all Tier 1 nations

I think it's because of what's on the tele where they are. That simple. If French rugby was on sky a lot more people would now players from each country but it isn't and because that the only time most English people see French teams is in the HCup and then you have the problem of French players on show. Toulon- Basteraud and Michalak. Clermont - Domingo, Kayser, Chouly, Parra, Fofana and Buttin Toulouse - quite a few so won't go through them. In the groups you had teams like Castres and RM 92 who didn't perform so no one gets to see Dulin play. I would like to see more French rugby but it's harder to see so I can't watch as much as I once did. It could be that anglo-speaking-thingy but its just down to what's on my TV

 

[The Jones Boy]

Folau -because he's a freak of a talent and destined to become a star at next year's WC
Dagg - not as good as he was in 2011, but still great under the high ball, huge boot on him which gets his team out of trouble. Just love how he seamlessly joins the AB backline to give them an extra dimension.
Brown - what a 6 nations he's had, but he's also taken it to the SH sides when he's faced them. Starting add tries to his great play.

I would throw in Le Roux because he runs like a Rolls Royce and he's a class act. SA are definitely better and more dangerous when he plays.
Rob Kearney- superb under the high ball and shows a real desire to run the ball back and make yardage.

 

[Darwin]

Why who is exciting at FB? Most of em are defensive...catch...kick. Zzzz. Brown six nations player of the year..dear god.

Yes I'm a moaning Minnie and for good reason too...the free flowing game of Rugby of brilliant attacking play that I was brought up watching no longer exists. The Aus of Campese, NZ of Lomu, South Africa of Van der Westhuizen, France of Sella, England of Guscott..besides the individual brilliance of O'Driscoll only Wales has got me remotely excited in recent years. The increased emphasis on physicality over flair is to blame. The worst case is France who are unrecognisable.

If you think most of the players on that list's game revolves around catching, kicking, and defense I would suggest you probably haven't watched them play. Have you ever watched Israel Folau play? or Ben Smith? or Willie Le Roux?

The fact you complain about the "increased emphasis on physicality over flair", then claim Wales are the only side that have got you excited in recent season is incredibly amusing. You do realize that over the last few seasons the Welsh game-plan has revolved around a massive physical backline?

 

[goodNumber10]

I'm not interested in replying to someone who calls a fact "garbage". I glanced at his reply and just gave up. Let ppl understand what they want out of other people's posts and call it garbage. This is just getting very, very tiring so I'll stop replying to those.

How do you deny the English-speaking world (Eng, Wal, Ire, Sco, Aus, NZ) has ties it doesn't nearly have with the rest of the world. You go to a party here in Doha, they're all English, Aus, Irish with a hint of American or NZ.
It's interesting to see apparently those within that world don't see it as such. I'm not calling anyone anything, or blaming aaaanyone at all. I'm just pointing out this rigid, rigid reality. As in everything, so in sports for that matter.

Back to the exact topic: it IS going to take Dulin a few more breaks and dancing around on the field bringing the ball up, more impressive catches, etc...to be noticed by the anglophone world. He's going to have to score another try on NZ, or make huge plays this summer in Australia for ppl to take notice properly.

It's certainly not "francophobic" or wtvr. It's just the way this world works.

Talk to any common Rugby fan who's, say, English - he'll know about the other UK sides, he'll know all about George North, Halfpenny, Rob Kearney, Stuart Hogg, Richie Gray etc...he'll know a lot of the Aussies and NZ'ers. The French and Italians and Argies will be more vague to him although they're all Tier 1 nations. There's undeniably this connivance, a certain complicity or at very least this knowledge of each other that just does not exist with areas like France.
France will always remain the odd side in top level Rugby. Even South Africa has the closeness of being SH with the other two SANZARs, but we are really alien and will remain that in the higher spheres of Rugby.

Same on the other side, although this is another topic. Fans in France are mostly preoccupied by the Top 14 and the XV de France (national side). There's quite a large separation from the 'other side'.

We're not talking about general life though are we? We're talking about Rugby, and you're assertion that anyone outside of france, or non-french speakers don't appreciate french players is just wrong. I think you're confusing exposure with understanding, because if a player is good, people generally recognise that regardless of what language they speak.


You're posts are generally great, but you do constantly make nationality an issue on here and i don't understand why when we're all here to talk rugby.

 

[Big Ewis]

I think it's because of what's on the tele where they are. That simple. If French rugby was on sky a lot more people would now players from each country but it isn't and because that the only time most English people see French teams is in the HCup and then you have the problem of French players on show. Toulon- Basteraud and Michalak. Clermont - Domingo, Kayser, Chouly, Parra, Fofana and Buttin Toulouse - quite a few so won't go through them. In the groups you had teams like Castres and RM 92 who didn't perform so no one gets to see Dulin play. I would like to see more French rugby but it's harder to see so I can't watch as much as I once did. It could be that anglo-speaking-thingy but its just down to what's on my TV

yeah yeah. Again, I'm not complaining, just noting fact. There's a great disparity between Eng and all those other countries I mentioned, and nations like France/Ita/Arg...for Italy it's understandable as they are not a great Rugby nation yet so it doesn't attract too many eyes but in France's case there's a point to be made because they are a great (or main) Rugby nation and yet their players are far less solicited/talked about/known by the avg. 'other world' fan.

And you watch as much or little Top 14/French Rugby as you want, I've got nothing to say about that. It's not a *fault* not to watch it, I mean.

 

[SimonG]

I don't want to be the one to break it to you - but there are far more exciting players than O'Driscoll out there...

Have you watched a New Zealand game...besides their last one against Ireland?

It doesn't mater anyway as every national team is conveniently terrible. South Africa beat everyone this year except New Zealand - but they're not anywhere near as good as the team which was coached by Peter de Villiers from 2008-2011, clearly. Because you say so.

Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time - he could cut a team apart like no one else. But I'd be suprised if he could tear teams to shreads as effectively as he could with a modern defense. If you're so disgusted by the state of the modern game, why watch? You're clearly more into football anyway.

First off i never uttered anything about NZ, they are the exception to the rule and have mantained a high standard. South Africa beat..."everyone". Do tell, given that there are at best 4/5 competitive teams (historically), who are "everyone"?.

My lamenting the current game is based on what pros have said (Guscott, O'Gara etc.). France, have never, ever, been worse. Australia are on their knees and the game is in crisis. Bledisloe cup is now a mismatch. The Lions will never have an easier win. England have been dreadful for a decade, could barely manage to get an Englishman in a Lions team. So thats three of the five competitive teams. Meanwhile South Africa, while they are still a very good side, they ain't the team of Matfield.

Players don't make stuff up for the fun of it. I call a spade a spade, and can only contend your in denial.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't want to be the one to break it to you - but there are far more exciting players than O'Driscoll out there...

Have you watched a New Zealand game...besides their last one against Ireland?

It doesn't mater anyway as every national team is conveniently terrible. South Africa beat everyone this year except New Zealand - but they're not anywhere near as good as the team which was coached by Peter de Villiers from 2008-2011, clearly. Because you say so.

Christian Cullen is my favourite player of all time - he could cut a team apart like no one else. But I'd be suprised if he could tear teams to shreads as effectively as he could with a modern defense. If you're so disgusted by the state of the modern game, why watch? You're clearly more into football anyway.

Dont feed the troll Nick. Hes a wannabee soccer fan with an inferiority complex.

 

[SimonG]

Really? The Welsh are more exciting to watch than the Springboks, Wallabies, THE ALL BLACKS? And come on, O'Driscoll was great and finished off well but he hasn't been an excitement machine for a good few years now.

It's not really just the physicality that's nullified flair. It's the structure. Back in the day it was possible to throw the ball around and there would be a good chance of breaking the line. You can't do that any more and France have been an example of that. They aren't clinical and don't have enough structure to compete internationally at the moment. In my view it's because they play like how they would have played in the old days. Chuck it about and hope someone makes a break. The teams that are well drilled produce the most exciting play now because they dismantle those defensive structures and allow their exciting players to shine. The All Blacks do that the best. It's like they're one combined consciousness the way they play. There's still a lot of exciting play in modern rugby. Teams just need to be good enough.

And why can't you do that anymore?

 

[ruggabee]

And why can't you do that anymore?

You can but it rarely works. You'll find that kind of 'off the cuff' play happens when an opposition makes a mistake or for returning a kick by running it back. A well coached team won't use the philosophy of "just throwing the ball around" as their plan of attack. You don't have to see it my way.

 

[FrenchFan]

First off i never uttered anything about NZ, they are the exception to the rule and have mantained a high standard. South Africa beat..."everyone". Do tell, given that there are at best 4/5 competitive teams (historically), who are "everyone"?.

My lamenting the current game is based on what pros have said (Guscott, O'Gara etc.). France, have never, ever, been worse. Australia are on their knees and the game is in crisis. Bledisloe cup is now a mismatch. The Lions will never have an easier win. England have been dreadful for a decade, could barely manage to get an Englishman in a Lions team. So thats three of the five competitive teams. Meanwhile South Africa, while they are still a very good side, they ain't the team of Matfield.

Players don't make stuff up for the fun of it. I call a spade a spade, and can only contend your in denial.

But Guscott NEVER had anything positive to say about France now or before, and he doesn't watch the Top14 either. He despises French rugby. Nothing has changed. Can't you see thru people's personal agenda? O'Gara is a rookie coach with 6 months in Top14 under his belt, he is still getting to grip with the league, he has zero credibility. He's slowly burying his own little Irish fairy tales about French rugby, why can't you do the same?

 

[Conish64]

1. Israel Folau
2. israel Dagg
3. Rob Kearney
4. Bryce Dulin
5. Mike Brown
6. Ben smith
7. Jesse Mogg
8. Willie Le Roux
9. Leigh halfpenny
10. Charles Piuatau

Mike Brown pobably should and will feature higher but hes only really been playing at this level of consistent brilliance for a year so I gave it to more tested performers. I know Piatau is primarily a winger but I reckon his best position is full baback.

 

[dragos03]

I bet very few people here even heard of him, but Romanian fullback Catalin Fercu could make the global Top 10 in my opinion. Here's a short article about him:
http://tier2rugby.blogspot.ro/2014/03/catalin-fercu-hidden-gem-of-world-rugby.html

Fercu never got much recognition outside Romania, mainly due to his fear of flying that made him reject transfer offers from clubs like Castres or Northampton in the past. He missed RWC 2011 for the same reason. Romania's heavy forward-oriented gameplan does not give him much chance to shine either. But people who have watched at least one match of the Romanian national team know that he is more dangerous than the other backs of the Oaks combined, a great player who loves solo runs and counters.

I couldn't find many clips of his runs, but here are a few from 2013 and 2014:



http://youtu.be/mgu00_phtLk?t=24s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u10jqdpBNU
http://youtu.be/xs3--0jIk5c?t=42m41s

 

[goodNumber10]

But Guscott NEVER had anything positive to say about France now or before, and he doesn't watch the Top14 either. He despises French rugby.

I don't think that's true at all. He's always talking about French and how amazing they are on their day - he always rates Sella as one of the best players he's ever faced. He is just dissapointed in the current french set up, as are lots of people.

 

[ruggabee]

I bet very few people here even heard of him, but Romanian fullback Catalin Fercu could make the global Top 10 in my opinion. Here's a short article about him:
http://tier2rugby.blogspot.ro/2014/03/catalin-fercu-hidden-gem-of-world-rugby.html

Fercu never got much recognition outside Romania, mainly due to his fear of flying that made him reject transfer offers from clubs like Castres or Northampton in the past. He missed RWC 2011 for the same reason. Romania's heavy forward-oriented gameplan does not give him much chance to shine either. But people who have watched at least one match of the Romanian national team know that he is more dangerous than the other backs of the Oaks combined, a great player who loves solo runs and counters.

I couldn't find many clips of his runs, but here are a few from 2013 and 2014:



http://youtu.be/mgu00_phtLk?t=24s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u10jqdpBNU
http://youtu.be/xs3--0jIk5c?t=42m41s

I remember seeing him play for Romania a few years ago and was really impressed. If someone asked me if I knew any Romanian players it would be that guy.