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Yea 70s seems like a fair comparison.

I'm optimistic long term. Good schools. Strong legal system. History of reinventing yourselves.

Could be a bit of a slog to get there though.
Well yeah but were is the income going to come from to service the debt? America has silicon valley, energy exports now, large tech industrial base etc etc so it's eye watering debt isn't such a problem to solve (although I wouldn't want to increase it)

The UK has good financial services and universities but they are feeling the squeeze the now. I work all round the UK and Ireland and there are now very very distinctive areas in the UK that have money and those that don't. If you go to work somewhere and none of the pubs of restaurants are open until Wednesday you're in a have not area, if you're having to book a table on a Tuesday then you're in a have and the have not areas are getting bigger.
 
Well yeah but were is the income going to come from to service the debt? America has silicon valley, energy exports now, large tech industrial base etc etc so it's eye watering debt isn't such a problem to solve (although I wouldn't want to increase it)

The UK has good financial services and universities but they are feeling the squeeze the now. I work all round the UK and Ireland and there are now very very distinctive areas in the UK that have money and those that don't. If you go to work somewhere and none of the pubs of restaurants are open until Wednesday you're in a have not area, if you're having to book a table on a Tuesday then you're in a have and the have not areas are getting bigger.
How much could you sell Wales or Scotland for?
 
Think that's a UK government problem. The UK revolves around one big city.

London in big parts is rich vibrant and diverse. University towns similar. Southshields, Scunthorpe and Grimsby are so different. The American rust belt.

Yet people can't understand why people in the have not areas think different to them. Life's different when after school your choices are the Army, dole or prison.
 
Think that's a UK government problem. The UK revolves around one big city.

London in big parts is rich vibrant and diverse. University towns similar. Southshields, Scunthorpe and Grimsby are so different. The American rust belt.

Yet people can't understand why people in the have not areas think different to them. Life's different when after school your choices are the Army, dole or prison.
I work in industrial laundries and Bottling factories like coca cola and AJ Barr. The bottling factories are pretty decent places to work and have a good mix of staff, the laundries are either entirely local work force (poor areas) or completely migrant work force (rich areas).
 
@dirty harry yeah keep laughing you sick ****. Hopefully it won't happen to anyone you know and love.

If i rmeember correctly, this isnt the first time you've used an issue as serious as rape as a shield and conflated an argument to use it. I wish you would stop, its too serious an issue for you to be banding around for your own gain.
 
Think that's a UK government problem. The UK revolves around one big city.

London in big parts is rich vibrant and diverse. University towns similar. Southshields, Scunthorpe and Grimsby are so different. The American rust belt.

Yet people can't understand why people in the have not areas think different to them. Life's different when after school your choices are the Army, dole or prison.

You could add large swathes of London in there, that's why the gang crime has become so popular, lack of options. At least Prison feeds you hot meals, and puts a roof over your head for a bit.
 

I'll be honest, im pretty ignorant on this specific issue, and that was a tough read, yahoo journo really tried not to clarify or simplify any of that...

So, Texas are trying to redistrict, and the Democrats answer to this which they are against, is to flee to cities all over the US to block any vote in the session?

Im not sure of the redistricting law, but presumably to Republican friendly areas, and I know Trxas Dems have done this previously to pretty much no avail, and its been tolerated and forgotten...

But I dont see any winner here. If Abbott fines them 500 a day, the tax payer pays, if he sets another session the tax payer foots the bill, infact im assuming the tax payer is footing the travel costs now.

Are civil arrest warrants enforceable outside of Texas? Are the Democrats willing never to return to Texas to avoid arrest?

None of this is flattering, Democrats claim not to be running away, but running into a fight, while literally fleeing the state to avoid consequences of failing to appear, and Republicans are gerrymandering to solidify mid term power.

From my knowledge Gerrymandering has occurred on both sides, Republicans tend to use it better, but ultimately on the national level it is inconsequential.
 
Mate this is exhausting...

Trump wasnt a Republican, before MAGA the Republicans were dead in the water, Obama won twice, their base was literally dying off, they had no serious candidate in the primaries and Trump filled the void and made MAGA the new Republican party.

To say the Republicans were paving a way for Trump, by failing miserably at record rates, and being on life support is absolute nonsense. In fact the argument that Obama paved the way for Trump is much more valid, Trump has taken his expanded presidential powers, his immigration policy, and in fact used his hindsight failings as a route to near despot power.

2016 wasnt a year when clever Republican ground work put Trump in a great position hahahah it was sheer desperation Trump won the primaries, and then 12 months of him being laughed at, and his small base derided, which became distasteful and riled just enough Obama voters (go and Google Obama -Trump voters, its fascinating) to turn the tables.

Trumps victory was social media and Democrat led, and since that day November day, their strategy has been exactly the same as Republicans vs Obama. Twist everything he says into a lie, and ignore when it is proved wrong and move on to the next quote.

Look at the constant stream of links Alrums posts, he is probably the biggest Trump enabler on this thread, more so than Chicagokid. And that's the environment in large parts of the US, where his immigration policies are popular across the country.

You obviously view everything he says as a lie, because you've been conditioned that way, as MAGA believe every word he says because they have. If either of you took facts into consideration youd see the nuance...

Let take this, you made the claim Republicans couldn't back their definition, I havnt seen a single case so asked for a link or evidence. This still hasn't happened, you keep dancing around it, but back your claim up?

I cant keep going round in circles with such vitriolic delusion, if you want the likes of Trump to keep winning, just keep doing what your doing, defending criminals, advocating for representitives starting fights in car parks, making a claim that a cartoon skit is violence against Democrats, and making the claims that Trump is saying and doing what is clearly evidenced that he isnt.

I dislike Trump, but I guarantee you im going to dislike the next Republican (and probably Democrat) president more, because you (that's right you personally) have contributed to erasing the meaning of words, the meaning of truth, and the meaning of facts.

I'll keep being honest about the events i see, idiotic videos posted on this board of a child being abducted by ICE, that turn out to be Sherrifs rescuing her from a drug bust (which i didnt see you come out and decry BTW) or campaign ads including a light hearted skit about Democrats being run out of Arizona, that is called violence hahaha.

I suppose you condemned pro.inant Democrat celebrity's showing Trump dead, cutting his head off, shooting him, crowds chanting to blow up the whitehouse, or even the violent rhetoric from Democrats themselves? Harrass Republicans, find out where they live, put a bullseye on Trump.

You condemn all these events?
Yeah it is exhausting when Mr Nuance consistently fails to grasp basic concepts requiring nuance.

Trump isn't a Republican now really, the Republicans have become Trumpian. He is very much his own thing and I've not claimed otherwise. Republicans were not dead before MAGA at all. In 2010, largely off the back of the tea party movement, the Republicans gained 7 Senate seats and 63 House seats (the largest shift to Republican since 1948). Democrats clawed a little bit back in 2012 only to then have the Republicans gain 9 senate seats and thirteen house seats in 2014, giving them the largest senate gain since 1980 and the largest majority in the house since 1928. In what world is that "dead in the water"? Obama's personal popularity shielded him but Republicans as a whole were not dead in the water at all. This massive uptick in support followed the emergence of the tea party movement following Obama's victory. I cannot understand why you brushed all that under the carpet and pretended it didn't happen or can claim that the Republicans having their largest majority in a century is dead in the water. What alternative reality are you living in?

The Tea Party movement also brought a certain type of Republican. It was the conspiracy theorists, the shameless liars, the openly racist, the worst elements of society. The Republicans embraced this ideology and it brought them huge success in the Legislature. This all predated Trump and MAGA although one of the big things of the Tea Party movement was the Birthers. Do you know who one of the most vocal birthers was? Trump. If the strategy was failing the Republicans so badly, why were they getting record wins embracing this strategy? Did you really look no further than the presidential elections and Obamas personal popularity...? This was also where the Republicans began being extremely obstructionist, with one of the most obstructionist Congresses in American history. They successfully blocked Obamas nomination to the Supreme Court among other things, which directly enabled Trump to fill them when he came in. But you still see no laying the groundwork prior to MAGA...?

The Republicans weren't positioning to put Trump in power, nowhere have I claimed that. Mr Nuance can't keep up? What I actually said is Republicans had already embraced a strategy and mentality that enabled Trump to win. They had embraced conspiracy, racism, obstructionism, lying, win at all costs to a degree well beyond political norms. It was an environment of openly being the biggest shits they could. It is an environment that suited the likes of Trump. Had the Republicans not embraced this strategy throughout the Obama years, Trump would not have risen to the top.

No, Trump's victory was not social media led, Trump's victory was led by the mentality that the Republican party had already been embracing since day dot of the Obama presidency through the Tea Party takeover. Before MAGA took over the Republican party, the Tea Party had. They were already shifting in that direction before MAGA became a thing.

There isn't much twisting needing with Trump, he lies far more frequently than any previous president. Oh I think everything he says is a lie, the other side thinks it's all true therefore the truth is in the middle!? By that logic, flat earthers think the earth is flat, I think the earth is round, therefore the reality must be the Earth is slightly deflated? You realise it's possible for one side to actually lie more than the other right? These things aren't perfectly even. Your refusal to even accept this possibility is incredible. You can't "both sides" everything, although you appear to be trying very hard. You realise it is possible to objectively prove Trump is lying right? Also to show that the lies vastly eclipse the numbers for other presidents?

Again, and I can't believe I'm having to repeat this, the Republicans BELIEVING they can easily define a woman is not the same as Republicans ACTUALLY being able to define a woman. The fact they won't admit to the issues with their definitions doesn't mean they therefore can define a woman. If you had a kid who could very confidently say the answer to 2+2=5, would you say they have no problem doing maths or would you say they merely believe they have no problem doing maths? It's not about merely asserting you can do it, it's about actually being able to.

But seeing as you want examples:

Funny isn't it how these people who all act like it's so easy are all failing to do so without glaring errors isn't it? But you've bought their self-promoted propaganda in full and this is EXACTLY what I've been going on about. Republicans are simply better liars. They all openly state they know how to define a woman yet you couldn't produce a single case where they can actually do so without an issue in the definition.

I really can't be bothered with this any more, you literally claimed that Republicans most successful period in elections in a century was evidence of them being in the doldrums, you completely ignored the influence of the Tea party, the parrot the Republican line about women, you both-sides the extent of lying and you claim Republicans aren't the ones with thin skins and pearl clutching, even as Trump fires the chief statistician for giving him figures he didn't like. You're living in a ******* alternative reality.
 
It's because it was initially populated with all the crazy religious people Europe didn't want.
No no. They moved there so that they could express there freedom of religion.

Of course, the particular religious freedom they wanted so badly, was the freedom to persecute non-puritans
 
When you become the First Minister of Scotland please ban that Australian racist ******* Mel Gibson from entering your country. And when Trump comes back to cheat at golf again please (I'm begging you) smuggle him out into the middle of the North Sea and leave him there. You'd be doing humanity a great favor. 👍
 
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Yeah it is exhausting when Mr Nuance consistently fails to grasp basic concepts requiring nuance.

Trump isn't a Republican now really, the Republicans have become Trumpian. He is very much his own thing and I've not claimed otherwise. Republicans were not dead before MAGA at all. In 2010, largely off the back of the tea party movement, the Republicans gained 7 Senate seats and 63 House seats (the largest shift to Republican since 1948). Democrats clawed a little bit back in 2012 only to then have the Republicans gain 9 senate seats and thirteen house seats in 2014, giving them the largest senate gain since 1980 and the largest majority in the house since 1928. In what world is that "dead in the water"? Obama's personal popularity shielded him but Republicans as a whole were not dead in the water at all. This massive uptick in support followed the emergence of the tea party movement following Obama's victory. I cannot understand why you brushed all that under the carpet and pretended it didn't happen or can claim that the Republicans having their largest majority in a century is dead in the water. What alternative reality are you living in?

The Tea Party movement also brought a certain type of Republican. It was the conspiracy theorists, the shameless liars, the openly racist, the worst elements of society. The Republicans embraced this ideology and it brought them huge success in the Legislature. This all predated Trump and MAGA although one of the big things of the Tea Party movement was the Birthers. Do you know who one of the most vocal birthers was? Trump. If the strategy was failing the Republicans so badly, why were they getting record wins embracing this strategy? Did you really look no further than the presidential elections and Obamas personal popularity...? This was also where the Republicans began being extremely obstructionist, with one of the most obstructionist Congresses in American history. They successfully blocked Obamas nomination to the Supreme Court among other things, which directly enabled Trump to fill them when he came in. But you still see no laying the groundwork prior to MAGA...?

The Republicans weren't positioning to put Trump in power, nowhere have I claimed that. Mr Nuance can't keep up? What I actually said is Republicans had already embraced a strategy and mentality that enabled Trump to win. They had embraced conspiracy, racism, obstructionism, lying, win at all costs to a degree well beyond political norms. It was an environment of openly being the biggest shits they could. It is an environment that suited the likes of Trump. Had the Republicans not embraced this strategy throughout the Obama years, Trump would not have risen to the top.

No, Trump's victory was not social media led, Trump's victory was led by the mentality that the Republican party had already been embracing since day dot of the Obama presidency through the Tea Party takeover. Before MAGA took over the Republican party, the Tea Party had. They were already shifting in that direction before MAGA became a thing.

There isn't much twisting needing with Trump, he lies far more frequently than any previous president. Oh I think everything he says is a lie, the other side thinks it's all true therefore the truth is in the middle!? By that logic, flat earthers think the earth is flat, I think the earth is round, therefore the reality must be the Earth is slightly deflated? You realise it's possible for one side to actually lie more than the other right? These things aren't perfectly even. Your refusal to even accept this possibility is incredible. You can't "both sides" everything, although you appear to be trying very hard. You realise it is possible to objectively prove Trump is lying right? Also to show that the lies vastly eclipse the numbers for other presidents?

Again, and I can't believe I'm having to repeat this, the Republicans BELIEVING they can easily define a woman is not the same as Republicans ACTUALLY being able to define a woman. The fact they won't admit to the issues with their definitions doesn't mean they therefore can define a woman. If you had a kid who could very confidently say the answer to 2+2=5, would you say they have no problem doing maths or would you say they merely believe they have no problem doing maths? It's not about merely asserting you can do it, it's about actually being able to.

But seeing as you want examples:

Funny isn't it how these people who all act like it's so easy are all failing to do so without glaring errors isn't it? But you've bought their self-promoted propaganda in full and this is EXACTLY what I've been going on about. Republicans are simply better liars. They all openly state they know how to define a woman yet you couldn't produce a single case where they can actually do so without an issue in the definition.

I really can't be bothered with this any more, you literally claimed that Republicans most successful period in elections in a century was evidence of them being in the doldrums, you completely ignored the influence of the Tea party, the parrot the Republican line about women, you both-sides the extent of lying and you claim Republicans aren't the ones with thin skins and pearl clutching, even as Trump fires the chief statistician for giving him figures he didn't like. You're living in a ******* alternative reality.
I absolutely appreciate the response, but after the first sentence of confirming my entire premise, im not sure i can be bothered to read on. You cant claim the Republicans laid a foundation to push Trump to where he is, then agree with me that the Republicans failed during the Obama presidency and allowed Trump to take over. Its either one or the other. And when you use mid term gains, that are universal for both parties as evidence of victories, despite losing the following elections, you lose all credibility.

'The Republicans weren't positioning to put Trump in power, nowhere have I claimed that'

Really?

'Trumps lies are succeeding because the Republicans laid the groundwork for years'

And

'The difference is, their impact is even higher now. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything the left do or don't do and is about a decades long effort to fine tune extreme propaganda by the far right'

These comments by you certainly make the claim there was a decades long effort, or groundwork laid by Republicans to allow Trump to succeed. Im not sure why you have U turned on that position now?
 
When you become the First Minister of Scotland please ban that Australian racist ******* Mel Gibson from entering your country. And when Trump comes back to cheat at golf again please (I'm begging you) smuggle him out into the middle of the North Sea and leave him there. You'd be doing humanity a great favor. 👍

Did you believe the claim that Trump claimed to shoot a 17?
 
I'll be honest, im pretty ignorant on this specific issue, and that was a tough read, yahoo journo really tried not to clarify or simplify any of that...

So, Texas are trying to redistrict, and the Democrats answer to this which they are against, is to flee to cities all over the US to block any vote in the session?

Im not sure of the redistricting law, but presumably to Republican friendly areas, and I know Trxas Dems have done this previously to pretty much no avail, and its been tolerated and forgotten...

But I dont see any winner here. If Abbott fines them 500 a day, the tax payer pays, if he sets another session the tax payer foots the bill, infact im assuming the tax payer is footing the travel costs now.

Are civil arrest warrants enforceable outside of Texas? Are the Democrats willing never to return to Texas to avoid arrest?

None of this is flattering, Democrats claim not to be running away, but running into a fight, while literally fleeing the state to avoid consequences of failing to appear, and Republicans are gerrymandering to solidify mid term power.

From my knowledge Gerrymandering has occurred on both sides, Republicans tend to use it better, but ultimately on the national level it is inconsequential.

Redistricting is a once a decade process usually, after the census shows population migration/growth between states.


Redistricting mid decade is very unusual and is only really done to attempt to influence upcoming elections.

In this instance the orange-utan has demanded Texas do this to give him a flve seats buffer against what is a probably a proper pasting in the midterms.

Abbot has already been helping him out by denying a special election to replace Sylvester Turner a Texan democrats congressman who died in mar 2025, not allowing the replacement election until Nov, 8 months later.

Gerrymandering does occur almost everywhere including here in the UK, but it is unusual to do it this way.

The democrats have threatened retaliatory actions in California and NY if this goes ahead.

The Texan Dems left Texas to prevent a quorum of 2/3 of the house being able to sit in this special session and pass this redistricting case. (There have been accusations that it's taking priority over floods etc). They only have to stay out of state for another couple of weeks until the special sessions ends (limited to 30 days)

Any fines are not paid by the taxpayer but like strumpet, fund raising is taking place to fund the fines and other costs.


No, Abbott can not enforce criminal or civil (which these are) warrants in another state of this states don't agree.

Redistricting seems to be always contentious, probably rightly so, but sometimes they fly directly in the face of the Votings Rites Act, 1965 which certain elements of the supreme court have been slowly chipping away and destroying.

 
When you become the First Minister of Scotland please ban that Australian racist ******* Mel Gibson from entering your country. And when Trump comes back to cheat at golf again please (I'm begging you) smuggle him out into the middle of the North Sea and leave him there. You'd be doing humanity a great favor. 👍
A few years back I went to the William Wallace Monument near Stirling


What was disturbing was the statue in the car park which looked like this

1000028610.jpg


Fortunately this has now been removed and sanity has prevailed.

Btw: Mel Gibson is a yank, born in New York

As for the last part, throw him out of the plane mid ocean, much cleaner. Wouldn't want him poisoning our fish. (That'll probably get me on a watchlist)
 
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I absolutely appreciate the response, but after the first sentence of confirming my entire premise, im not sure i can be bothered to read on. You cant claim the Republicans laid a foundation to push Trump to where he is, then agree with me that the Republicans failed during the Obama presidency and allowed Trump to take over. Its either one or the other. And when you use mid term gains, that are universal for both parties as evidence of victories, despite losing the following elections, you lose all credibility.

'The Republicans weren't positioning to put Trump in power, nowhere have I claimed that'

Really?

'Trumps lies are succeeding because the Republicans laid the groundwork for years'

And

'The difference is, their impact is even higher now. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything the left do or don't do and is about a decades long effort to fine tune extreme propaganda by the far right'

These comments by you certainly make the claim there was a decades long effort, or groundwork laid by Republicans to allow Trump to succeed. Im not sure why you have U turned on that position now?
Jesus Christ... Ok let me put it in the simplest possible way for you:
1) Republicans DIDN'T fail under Obama as you claimed, they had record high swings their way and total number of Congress people for a century. That's not "dead in the water" by any stretch of the imagination.
2) Obama weathered their attacks because he personally was a very capable statesman, Democrats did not weather the attacks at all and were torn to shreds.
3) Trump was the existing Republican mentality turned up to 11. The Neocons lost out and the Tea Party took hold. The Tea Party oversaw a massive resurgence in Republican fortunes. Trump bought into the Tea Party movement, particularly in relation to Birthgate.
4) Trump was not a Democrat, he switched his party registration multiple times, 5 times between 1987 and today. He's been registered Republican far longer than he's been registered Democrat
5) He switched back to Republican at the same time as the Tea Party Republicans had been riding high on their successes for 2 years after he had been involved in pushing Tea Party birtherism
6) The Tea Party pushed the Republicans towards a far less cooperative and far more confrontational attitude that embraced extreme language, demonising political opponents, frequent lying, defamation, conspiracy theories, obstructionism, hypocrisy and hyperbole. At this point in time the Republican party existed pretty much for the sole purpose of wrecking whatever they could.
7) This Tea Party Republican party became THE most obstructionist Congress in the entire history of the USA. They were frequently threatening government shutdowns and not raising the debt limit. It was in this era that the current situation of continuing resolutions became the norm due to their non-stop brinksmanship.

So by the time Trump came to the fore in 2015, the Tea Party had already taken over the Republican party for the most part, with the old guard still holding the final reins of power in the legislature due to a proven ability to get their way (McConnell). They had already embraced moving towards a more extreme position, they had already abandoned any semblance of being reasonable and seeking bipartisan cooperation, every single thing needed to be a zero sum game, to the extent they would block the Democrats on even the most inconsequential and non-political issues, including aid distribution.

That is the environment he came into. Of all the candidates, Trump represented the traits the Republican party was embracing but ramped up even more. Brashness, no regard for facts, absolutely zero integrity, serial lying, hyperbolic language, portraying it as fighting an enemy rather than a political opponent etc. He succeeded because the Republican party had already been lurching towards that attitude for the best part of a decade and was seeing great success with it, not failure as you claim. The reason they failed at the presidency is because, whilst the Legislature moved towards that attitude and had great success with it, their presidential candidates didn't and were the more established neocons. Trump was the first time they ditched a neocon for their candidate and then the success they had been seeing in Congress also happened in the presidency.

They didn't do what they did with the aim of making Trump president, most likely they had intended another candidate to win, but what they did enabled him to become president. Again, nuance that you appear to not grasp. Had Republicans not embraced the extreme positions of the Tea Party and lurched heavily in that direction in the preceding years, Trump would not have become their nominee and would not have won. Trump didn't rescue a dying party, he was the turbo boost on a party that had already embraced a far more confrontational and non-stately mentality.
 
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A few years back I went to the William Wallace Monument near Stirling


What was disturbing was the statue in the car park which looked like this

View attachment 24289


Fortunately this has now been removed and sanity has prevailed.

Btw: Mel Gibson is a yank, born in New York
Gibson was born in New York? Sorry! We'll give that state to Canada (part of the Monarchy) and call it even. And they can rename Trump Tower and then demolish it live on TV.
 
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