Wales Tour 2013: Japan

[Draggs]

I'm bored, let's speculate!
This is the squad going to France for the U20:

Forwards: Ellis Jenkins (capt, Blues / Cardiff), Nicky Smith (Ospreys / Swansea), Gareth Thomas (Scarlets/ Carmarthen), Tom Davies (Blues /Cardiff), Dan Suter (Ospreys / Bridgend), Nicky Thomas (Ospreys / Swansea), Ethan Lewis (Blues / Cardiff), Elliot Dee (Dragons / Bedwas), Carwyn Jones (Scarlets / Carmarthen), Jack Jones (Ospreys / Rovigo), Rhodri Hughes (Ospreys / Swansea), Ieuan Jones (Dragons / Newport), Daniel Thomas (Scarlets / Llanelli), Sion Bennett (Scarlets / Carmarthen), James Benjamin (Dragons/ Bedwas)

Backs: Rhodri Williams (Scarlets / Llandovery), Joshua Davies (Dragons / Bedwas), Rhys Patchell (Blues / Cardiff), Sam Davies (Ospreys / Swansea), Cory Allen (Blues / Cardiff), Steffan Hughes (Scarlets / Llanelli), Jack Dixon (Dragons / Bedwas), Thomas Pascoe (Blues / Pontypridd), Harry Robinson (Blues / Cardiff), Aaron Warren (Llandovery), Ashley Evans (Ospreys / Bridgend), Jordan Williams (Scarlets / Llanelli), Hallam Amos (Dragons / Bedwas)

Now, let's assume that none of these will go to Japan, what do we do?

15 L Williams/Fussell
14 L Williams/Fussell
13 O Williams (Blues outside back)
12 Henson
11 Prydie
10 O Williams (Scarlets/Tigers standoff)/Priestland/Hook
09 Evans/Davies/Williams

01 James (C)
02 Owens
03 Mitchell
04 Davies
05 Coombs/King
06 Shingler/King
07 Navidi
08 Pretorius/McCusker (weakness here)

16 Baldwin/Rees
17 Bevington
18 Andrews
19 King/Coombs/Kohn
20 Any of those left out above
21 Evans/Davies/Williams
22 O Williams/Priestland/Hook
23 Harries!

 

[Ospreylian]

15 L Williams/Fussell
14 L Williams/Fussell
13 O Williams (Blues outside back)
12 Henson
11 Prydie
10 O Williams (Scarlets/Tigers standoff)/Priestland/Hook
09 Evans/Davies/Williams

01 James (C)
02 Owens
03 Mitchell
04 Davies
05 Coombs/King
06 Shingler/King
07 Navidi
08 Pretorius/McCusker (weakness here)

16 Baldwin/Rees
17 Bevington
18 Andrews
19 King/Coombs/Kohn
20 Any of those left out above
21 Evans/Davies/Williams
22 O Williams/Priestland/Hook
23 Harries!

Pretty good squad for a second team. There are some players though that I would include that aren't in your squad.

Beck in the centres, has been showing good form for a while now and deserves another run. Matthew Morgan would be my starting 10 potentially, I would also have Eli Wales on the wing (if fit, which is maybe looking doubtful). Also Morgan Allen could be a good option at 8, I think he's been superb when playing for the Ospreys this season, has got a couple of MOTM performances - a star of the future, definitely. Also, what about Scott Williams?

 

[Draggs]

Completely forgot about Beck.
Has been injured on-and-off. Definitely play him.
Can't see Morgan going, he hasn't done anything of note, not even his classic nipper-breaks.

No clue about Wales' fitness, but I wish he could go.
Allen, eh, I dunno. Maybe as we have no other 8s coming through, but I don't see him as a long-term option.
Forgot about Scott Williams as well. He'll go, although I am not his biggest fan.

 

[dullonien]

May as well wait one more day to see the Lions squad. Out of those in your Wales squad above Draggs, I'd say there's a possibility of Paul James, Ken Owens and James Hook making it on the plane to Aus, even if slightly unlikely.

The next few weeks will tell us a lot about who will be playing 10 as well. I'm guessing that Priestland will be favourite, but we'll see how he goes for the Scarlets in the play-offs.

I'm not sure who will play at centre. Henson or Beck at 12? That's a tough choice. Scott Williams will probably play at 13, and most likely rip sh*t up against Japan, but it won't tell us too much.

What about Kieran Murphy at 8? Unfortunately the Scarlets are obsessed with McCusker there, so probably unlikely. Wouldn't be surprised if McCusker is at 8 for Wales tbh, would be a rubbish choice though.

Eli Wales is almost certainly out of the tour

 

[psychic duck]

16 Baldwin

Needs to improve lineout throwing badly.

 

[Big Ewis]

what's the record for penalty tries in an official capped Rugby test ?

 

[Draggs]

Yeah he does. Not sure who else would go.

 

[dullonien]

Yeah he does. Not sure who else would go.

Emyr Phillips? Probably a more consistent player, even if his impact in the loose isn't as big as Baldwin's. That performance has really dented Baldwin's hopes imo.

 

[Draggs]

Emyr Phillips? Probably a more consistent player, even if his impact in the loose isn't as big as Baldwin's. That performance has really dented Baldwin's hopes imo.

Yeah, he was looking pretty decent before then. Still has time on his side.
Lineout throwing isn't a fair benchmark to judge Welsh hookers...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales squad announced Wednesday 1pm ish for those interested.

 

[Thingimubob]

Interesting that people don't seem to be picking Patchell now? I'd certainly bring him!

 

[Draggs]

Wales squad announced Wednesday 1pm ish for those interested.

Nah, it's cool, just gonna make a squad in Rugby Challenge of the Draggs XV and slam Japan 169-0.
Will Harries x15 for those wondering.

 

[dullonien]

Interesting that people don't seem to be picking Patchell now? I'd certainly bring him!

I just think he'd gain more going to the JWC.

 

[Draggs]

I just think he'd gain more going to the JWC.

Exactly.
More matches to play, more time; at his level.
Don't Prydie these nippers.

 

[dullonien]

Exactly.
More matches to play, more time; at his level.
Don't Prydie these nippers.

He will also help the U20's prospects. Why take players away from them when they are challenging in a WC, to play him in a meaningless tour to Japan? In all likelihood we'll have Biggar, Hook, Priestland, Owen Williams and Matthew Morgan to chose from anyway. Plenty of options.

I also think that some of the teams at the JWC are more difficult opposition than Japan.

 

[Thingimubob]

I just think he'd gain more going to the JWC.

Whoops, didn't see he was in the u20s squad. Hopefully he'll get plenty of game time there!

 

[Draggs]

I have nothing to add right now except for that great sig, Thing.

 

[psychic duck]

So with the Lions confirmed then:

1. James (captain)
2. Owens
3. Mitchell
4. Coombs
5. Bradley Davies
6. Shingler
7. Navidi
8. Pretorius
9. Aled Davies
10. Biggar
11. Brew
12. Henson
13. Beck
14. Liam Williams
15. Fussell

16. Rees
17. Bevington
18. Lee
19. Kohn
20. King
21. Lloyd Williams
22. Hook
23. Scott Williams

Looks pretty weak in all honesty. Two or three of those names I only put in due to lack of options rather than actually rating them.

Interesting that people don't seem to be picking Patchell now? I'd certainly bring him!

Owen Williams has levelled him with performance in the second half of the season to be honest. Patchell starred in the first half of the season, Williams has done as well in the second. Williams looked decent, a shame he is leaving to Tigers.

He will also help the U20's prospects. Why take players away from them when they are challenging in a WC, to play him in a meaningless tour to Japan? In all likelihood we'll have Biggar, Hook, Priestland, Owen Williams and Matthew Morgan to chose from anyway. Plenty of options.

I also think that some of the teams at the JWC are more difficult opposition than Japan.

How is the tour "meaningless"? Just because a side is weaker doesn't make it "meaningless". Add to that the Raeburn Shield is up for grabs of course. I would also be careful about the Junior teams better than Tier 2 teams as well.

 

[dullonien]

How is the tour "meaningless"? Just because a side is weaker doesn't make it "meaningless". Add to that the Raeburn Shield is up for grabs of course. I would also be careful about the Junior teams better than Tier 2 teams as well.

Wrong choice of word. There isn't anything on the line (Raeburn Shield means little), unlike the JWC where there's a world cup on the line. I think the likes of the baby blacks and baby boks would more than hold their own against the likes of Japan. I just see their physicality and skill levels as higher, regardless of their age.

With regards to your team, I'd still be very, very weary about picking a midfield of Biggar, Henson and Beck. Imo, neither Henson or Beck are outside centres, and playing them both will be just in an effort to shoe-horn them both into the side. Playing Hook at outside centre would be better imo, but I would be weary about blooding someone like Owen Williams (Blues centre) so quickly. In the long run I see Cory Allen challenging for the 13 jersey, but the same Patchell, it's better he play in the JWC.

I'm unsure about Olly Kohn as well. In a development tour like this, I'd maybe prefer to see Peers given a shot. I don't think Kohn was all that impressive when he was given a shot in the 6 nations, and he isn't exactly one for the future, he was just an emergency stop-gap. The main attribute he has is size, which I don't think is enough when it comes to international rugby.

 

[psychic duck]

With regards to your team, I'd still be very, very weary about picking a midfield of Biggar, Henson and Beck. Imo, neither Henson or Beck are outside centres, and playing them both will be just in an effort to shoe-horn them both into the side. Playing Hook at outside centre would be better imo, but I would be weary about blooding someone like Owen Williams (Blues centre) so quickly. In the long run I see Cory Allen challenging for the 13 jersey, but the same Patchell, it's better he play in the JWC.

I'm unsure about Olly Kohn as well. In a development tour like this, I'd maybe prefer to see Peers given a shot. I don't think Kohn was all that impressive when he was given a shot in the 6 nations, and he isn't exactly one for the future, he was just an emergency stop-gap. The main attribute he has is size, which I don't think is enough when it comes to international rugby.

I reckon Beck could play 13. Although I only put him there due to lack of options though. Hook isn't an outside centre either. Besides it would be good for Beck's career if he could use this to play 13 as it will help him in breaking into the Wales team properly in the future.

You may be right about Kohn. Especially considering that the matches will be played in humid 25 degree heat and it will likely be tiring free flowing matches that would suit fitter Sevens players than Kohn who is like 22 stone. However Reed's fitness was exposed in November too and I don't rate him so there is a real lack of options with Charteris injured. A bit harsh to judge Kohn on the 6N though, he had how many minutes?

Wrong choice of word. There isn't anything on the line (Raeburn Shield means little), unlike the JWC where there's a world cup on the line. I think the likes of the baby blacks and baby boks would more than hold their own against the likes of Japan. I just see their physicality and skill levels as higher, regardless of their age.

But if there isn't anything on the line, then by that logic all the Autumn/June internationals are "meaningless". In regards to the Raeburn Shield, I actually think Wales should big up it's importance now they have it. They'll never win a RWC, so it will be the only claim to being the world's best they get.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong but U20's are still a long way from their peak performance both mentally and physically. The full national teams are selected over the best of 15 age groups not just 1. I think the matches you see at full adult level and U20 level are a different type to be honest.

Remember Japan, Canada and Georgia etc really aren't so far behinds the likes of Italy, Samoa, Tonga etc. Japan only lost by 1 point last year to a Samoa team that included the likes of Fotuali'i, Cencus Johnston, Tekori, Paul Williams, Paulo, Mulipola, Lemi etc. And also led Italy at half time away from home in 2011 until the scrum took the game away from them. Some think there is a giant chasm between the top 10 and below, but really is goes down gradually until the likes of Namibia.