Wales Tour 2013: Japan

[Draggs]

​

Robin McBryde has been announced as head coach for the June 2013 two-test tour of Japan. He will be assisted by current Wales coaches Shaun Edwards and Neil Jenkins, along with Scarlets attack coach and former Welsh wing Mark Jones.

Thoughts on the staff? Possible tourists? Six months to go, but I am looking forward to this tour, I like seeing new players come through.

Fixtures:
<big>• Japan v Wales, Osaka, 8 June 2013
</big><big>• Japan v Wales, Tokyo, 15 June 2013</big><big>
</big>

 

[pete82]

As far as the staff for the tour, Interesting to see Mark Jones included, the backs coach at the Scarlets has come in for criticism from some sections of fans it's fair to say, especially the last week or two.

I'm really looking forward to seeing some young players blooded and expect to see some of the boys make the step up from the U20's side, especially after how well they applied themselves at the World cup in South Africa....

Here is my team (feel free to judge)

15) Liam Williams (Scarlets)
14) Harry Robinson (Blues)
13) Ashley Beck (0spreys)
12) Scott Williams (Scarlets)
11) Eli Walker (Ospreys)
10) Rhys Patchell (Blues)
9) Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets)

1) Rhys Gill (Saracens)
2) Emyr Phillips (Scarlets)
3) Samson Lee (Scarlets)
4) Bradley Davies (Blues)
5) Jake Ball (Scarlets)
6) Sam Lewis (Ospreys)
7) Josh Navidi (Blues) (Captain)
8) Luke Hamilton (Blues)

16) Richard Hibbard (Ospreys)
17) Rhodri Jones (Scarlets)
18) Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
19) James Down (Blues)
20) Lewis Evans (Dragons)
21) Gareth Davies (Scarlets)
22) Jason Tovey (Blues)
23) Tom Prydie (Dragons)

Props from:

Rhys Gill (Saracens) Rhodri Jones (Scarlets) Paul James (Bath) Samson Lee (Scarlets) Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)

Hookers from:

Richard Hibbard (Ospreys) Emyr Phillips (Scarlets) Ken Owens (Scarlets)

Locks From:

Bradley Davies (Blues) James Down (Blues) Jake Ball (Scarlets) Lou Reed (Blues) Lloyd Peers (Ospreys)

Back row from:

Josh Navidi (Blues) Lewis Evans (Dragons) Sam Lewis (Ospreys)
Luke Hamilton (Blues) Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys)

Scrum Halves From:

Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets) Gareth Davies (Scarlets) Tom Habberfield (Ospreys)

Fly halves from:

Rhys Patchell (Blues) Jason Tovey (Blues)
Steffan Jones (Dragons)

Centres From:

Scott Williams (Scarlets) Ashley Beck (Ospreys) Andrew Bishop (Ospreys)
Adam Warren (Scarlets)

Wingers From:

Eli Walker (Ospreys) Tom James (Blues) Harry Robinson (Blues)

Full Backs from:

Liam Williams (Scarlets) Dan Fish (Blues) Tom Prydie (Dragons) Ross Jones (Ospreys)

 

[psychic duck]

Here is my team (feel free to judge)

15) Liam Williams (Scarlets)
14) Harry Robinson (Blues)
13) Ashley Beck (0spreys)
12) Scott Williams (Scarlets)
11) Eli Walker (Ospreys)
10) Rhys Patchell (Blues)
9) Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets)

1) Rhys Gill (Saracens)
2) Emyr Phillips (Scarlets)
3) Samson Lee (Scarlets)
4) Bradley Davies (Blues)
5) Jake Ball (Scarlets)
6) Sam Lewis (Ospreys)
7) Josh Navidi (Blues) (Captain)
8) Luke Hamilton (Blues)

16) Richard Hibbard (Ospreys)
17) Rhodri Jones (Scarlets)
18) Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
19) James Down (Blues)
20) Lewis Evans (Dragons)
21) Gareth Davies (Scarlets)
22) Jason Tovey (Blues)
23) Tom Prydie (Dragons)

I reckon you are overestimating the amount of players going on Lions tour, and selecting too many rookies in one side. I would select a few players with a bit more experience such as Paul James, Hibbard. Also have players like Dan Biggar given a chance. That side looks more like a midweek side.

Remember Japan will be stronger than perhaps most expect, unlike other Tier 2 sides who have most players based in Europe, Japan get all their players available no problems as nearly all their players play in a JRFU run league and can get much more preparation time compared to say Samoa who would only get their players a few days beforehand. Japan will have had a whole Asian 5 Nations to prepare and test out combinations and familiarity if against weak opposition. So I expect they will be a tough side to face, they nearly beat a strong Samoa side in June by the way blowing a 16-0 lead. So Wales can't take this lightly and liberally throw too many experiments in at once. Saying that though there is more chance to experiment compared to normal.

A big weakness of Japan is their scrum, which is why I would make sure Paul James plays to make the best advantage of this area. Hopefully Craig Mitchell will be available too. It is also a good time to debut Samson Lee imo.

I hope there are no undeserved caps on this tour though, Rhodri Jones and Harry Robinson are two players who in my opinion I haven't seen do an awful lot yet get selected for Wales. Until Harry Robinson gets past Tom James in the Cardiff Blues side he shouldn't play for Wales imo. Eli Walker, Tom Prydie, Richard Fussell are on better form. As for Rhodri Jones he was seen as a utility prop I think at one stage, but now with 23 man squads there is no need, he needs to get back having game time with his region, last time I saw him play he was destroyed by Leinster. Gill and James should be far ahead of him, given both of their credentials shown at H Cup level.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Pretty much agree Duck.

Paul James, Richard Hibbard and Craig Mitchell would be starters for me in the front row. I am sure Charteris would be in the second row. Tipuric would be in the backrow, probably alongside Ryan Jones and Aaron Shingler.

Lloyd Williams would be the backup / starting scrum half and Biggar would be in contention to start and I feel Henson would be there or there abouts.

 

[psychic duck]

I think one area where Wales should try something new is at scrum half. If Phillips goes on the Lions tour, then there is a big opportunity for all of the scrum halves at the regions to put their hand up with some good form.

Wales need to find a replacement for Phillips who remains in the side despite some not so great form due to lack of options, with the likes of Knoyle and Lloyd Williams progress stalling and Webb not being good enough. Hopefully one of those players will be able to put some good form together get a good partnership with Biggar at 10 and give some more competition for Phillips so there is an alternative when he's on poor form.

There also could be a possible opportunity for a real youngster like Jonathan Evans perhaps to go on tour as third choice.

Are there mid week games on this tour by the way?

I remember there were in 2001 and Wales lost to Suntory Sungoliath.

 

[pete82]

I reckon you are overestimating the amount of players going on Lions tour, and selecting too many rookies in one side. I would select a few players with a bit more experience such as Paul James, Hibbard. Also have players like Dan Biggar given a chance. That side looks more like a midweek side.

Remember Japan will be stronger than perhaps most expect, unlike other Tier 2 sides who have most players based in Europe, Japan get all their players available no problems as nearly all their players play in a JRFU run league and can get much more preparation time compared to say Samoa who would only get their players a few days beforehand. Japan will have had a whole Asian 5 Nations to prepare and test out combinations and familiarity if against weak opposition. So I expect they will be a tough side to face, they nearly beat a strong Samoa side in June by the way blowing a 16-0 lead. So Wales can't take this lightly and liberally throw too many experiments in at once. Saying that though there is more chance to experiment compared to normal.

A big weakness of Japan is their scrum, which is why I would make sure Paul James plays to make the best advantage of this area. Hopefully Craig Mitchell will be available too. It is also a good time to debut Samson Lee imo.

I hope there are no undeserved caps on this tour though, Rhodri Jones and Harry Robinson are two players who in my opinion I haven't seen do an awful lot yet get selected for Wales. Until Harry Robinson gets past Tom James in the Cardiff Blues side he shouldn't play for Wales imo. Eli Walker, Tom Prydie, Richard Fussell are on better form. As for Rhodri Jones he was seen as a utility prop I think at one stage, but now with 23 man squads there is no need, he needs to get back having game time with his region, last time I saw him play he was destroyed by Leinster. Gill and James should be far ahead of him, given both of their credentials shown at H Cup level.

I'm working on the basis that this Japanese tour will be very much seen as a platform to see how a few of the "prospects" fair at international level. As we both know, in the past year or so the National side has more or less picked it's self and it seems to be very much a case of players being picked not so much on form but more like pieces to fit a jigsaw.

It is not the case I am over estimating how many players will go on the Lions tour, more a case of senior players having a long season behind them and needing a rest, coupled with the fact there are others who are not really an unknown quantity at International level any more. I can't really see a point in going with the strongest possible team, winning all the games and not learning anything at all from the tour, or indeed the strength in depth of Welsh rugby, which I feel is a much more pressing exercise especially after the autumn tests.

I feel you are missing my point also as I have picked this squad taking into account there is still a long way to go this season and a lot can happen over the next few months, Rhodri Jones For instance, has just had shoulder surgery and missed much of the season so far, but I believe that if he is utilised at his natural position of loose head (It is Warren Gatland who came up with the idea of trying him at tight) He does not play there for his region. He can Push on and stake a claim for a place, of course he is nowhere near the likes of Jenkins and James in terms of the scrum, but he is still only 20 and has a Bright future ahead of him.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I think one area where Wales should try something new is at scrum half. If Phillips goes on the Lions tour, then there is a big opportunity for all of the scrum halves at the regions to put their hand up with some good form.


Wales need to find a replacement for Phillips who remains in the side despite some not so great form due to lack of options, with the likes of Knoyle and Lloyd Williams progress stalling and Webb not being good enough. Hopefully one of those players will be able to put some good form together get a good partnership with Biggar at 10 and give some more competition for Phillips so there is an alternative when he's on poor form.


There also could be a possible opportunity for a real youngster like Jonathan Evans perhaps to go on tour as third choice.


Are there mid week games on this tour by the way?


I remember there were in 2001 and Wales lost to Suntory Sungoliath.

In the official press release when they announced McBryde as coach it only said two test matches but team manager Alan Phillips 'will again oversee and organise tour facilities and team arrangements during the Japan trip' so make of that what you will.

 

[Draggs]

15 Liam Williams (God no. I'd rather see... Fussell...)/Morgan Stoddart
14 Tom Prydie
13 Allen? Dixon? Not Scott Williams
12 Ashley Beck
11 Harry Robinson (I'd also select Eli Walker just as easily)
10 Dan Biggar
09 Tavis Knoyle
01 Paul James/Ryan Bevington
02 Richard Hibbard
03 Craig Mitchell
04 Bradley Davies
05 ? (Want a new player here)
06 Aaron Shingler
07 Justin Tipuric/Josh Navidi
08 ? (Again, we need someone new here)

16 Scott Baldwin (Forgive me, Cymro)
17 Ryan Bevington/Rhodri Jones (Focus on one side)
18 Scott Andrews
19 ?
20 Pretorius/Lewis Evans/Navidi
21 Jonathan Evans (Would make my year)
22 Rhys Patchell
23 Eli Walker/Morgan Stoddart

 

[Draggs]

Eli Walker on the wing.
Who is he???

Wonderful runner, reminds me of Tom James in his ability to just pass players with ease.

 

[SelimNiai]

Eli Walker on the wing.
Who is he???

Wonderful runner, reminds me of Tom James in his ability to just pass players with ease.

Balls to the summer, he's making a tangible case for a 6N start. Cuthbert better watch out, Eli's about.

 

[psychic duck]

15 Liam Williams (God no. I'd rather see... Fussell...)/Morgan Stoddart
14 Tom Prydie
13 Allen? Dixon? Not Scott Williams
12 Ashley Beck
11 Harry Robinson (I'd also select Eli Walker just as easily)
10 Dan Biggar
09 Tavis Knoyle
01 Paul James/Ryan Bevington
02 Richard Hibbard
03 Craig Mitchell
04 Bradley Davies
05 ? (Want a new player here)
06 Aaron Shingler
07 Justin Tipuric/Josh Navidi
08 ? (Again, we need someone new here)

16 Scott Baldwin (Forgive me, Cymro)
17 Ryan Bevington/Rhodri Jones (Focus on one side)
18 Scott Andrews
19 ?
20 Pretorius/Lewis Evans/Navidi
21 Jonathan Evans (Would make my year)
22 Rhys Patchell
23 Eli Walker/Morgan Stoddart

I certainly don't want to see Harry Robinson who has yet to get past Tom James and has done little in regional rugby selected ahead of Eli Walker who has improved massively and scored important H Cup tries this season and is a sure starter for the only Welsh H Cup team capable of winning a match.

I'm also a little concerned about Liam Williams capabilities in attack of late, he's not made so many attack of late imo, he seems to be a player who is all about tremendous effort and passion and less about intelligence and skilful play to me at the moment.

Also Rhodri Jones is a no for me. Gill, Bevington and James are all ahead imo on regional form, and Jenkins may be available too the ways things are going with his form. No idea why you left Ryan Jones completely out of that side by the way Draggs, he seems the most likely candidate to skipper the squad.

I definitely do want to see Mitchell back though, he's become a forgotten man with all his injuries and player release issues preventing him from appearing for Wales since last year.

 

[Draggs]

As I said, Walker ahead of Robinson now.
Don't rate Liam Williams either.

Ryan Jones should be a tourist to Australia. Otherwise, play him at 8 (Shinglere must develop on the blindside).

Not a fan of Gill. Not a great scrummager and can leak penalties at times.

Cuthbert??? North is the one who has done eff all this season. Checked his step when he should have gunned it a few times today.

 

[psychic duck]

As I said, Walker ahead of Robinson now.
Don't rate Liam Williams either.

Ryan Jones should be a tourist to Australia. Otherwise, play him at 8 (Shinglere must develop on the blindside).

Not a fan of Gill. Not a great scrummager and can leak penalties at times.

Cuthbert??? North is the one who has done eff all this season. Checked his step when he should have gunned it a few times today.

Gill keeps Mako Vunipola out of the Saracens starting lineup. And although I haven't seen an awful lot of Premiership this season, English fans see Vunipola as one of their best props and there is a hype and excitement around him so Gill must be doing something right there to stay in that team. Also sent former Springbok Deon Carstens back to SA without seeing much game time as well.

He certainly wouldn't be my preferred choice loosehead with everybody available as I agree he can leak penalties, as Jenkins and the underrated and undervalued Paul James are the best two, then Bevington is emerging as well. But he has more credentials at a higher level than Rhodri Jones, who has had many H Cup starts? And plays in a Scarlets scrum that has struggled when faced with the top European teams Clermont and Leinster.

I don't think Ryan Jones will go to Australia to be honest. And by the way, North set up the Scarlets try before getting injured today and is the second leading try scorer in the RaboPro12 behind Visser, that's something even though he didn't do much in November in red.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Love to know where this concept of leaking penalties are coming from. Gill is a good player and always delivers when called upon. His club competition has meant he has raised his game. People often are quick to look for negatives here.

Was not so long ago some here was saying Eli Walker was not good enough, now championing him after him today. The boy is still raw and needs to work on parts of his game. No doubt a talent but needs developing, same would go to Patchell.

 

[Draggs]

I've seen him get pushed around in the scrums at times, and sometimes for ruck infringements. Bevington is a safer bet with regards to penalties.

With regards to North and Cuthbert, I feel that people have two different sets of standards. Cuthbert scores tries and is called one trick pony, but North is just ace. Cuthbert looks to actually play for his sides with some guts. He is one of the few Blues players who can say they actually contribute.

 

[j'nuh]

No idea why you left Ryan Jones completely out of that side by the way Draggs, he seems the most likely candidate to skipper the squad.

Without meaning to disrespect Japan, don't you think that it would be a good time to give some of the players which have been heavily involved with the national team a break? International tests choke all the rest points that non-international players would have, and I don't think it's surprising how many injuries Wales have been getting when you consider this. Players like Ryan Jones may have to go back years since they last strung together a decent amount of weeks without rugby to play! It's especially important for players who are old and need preserving to make them last.

Wouldn't even have to be a much weaker team tbh. Just full of players like Tipuric, Beck, Biggar, Walker, Shingler etc., who haven't been run into the ground by the national team over the last few years.

 

[Draggs]

Without meaning to disrespect Japan, don't you think that it would be a good time to give some of the players which have been heavily involved with the national team a break? International tests choke all the rest points that non-international players would have, and I don't think it's surprising how many injuries Wales have been getting when you consider this. Players like Ryan Jones may have to go back years since they last strung together a decent amount of weeks without rugby to play! It's especially important for players who are old and need preserving to make them last.

Wouldn't even have to be a much weaker team tbh. Just full of players like Tipuric, Beck, Biggar, Walker, Shingler etc., who haven't been run into the ground by the national team over the last few years.

That is what I'd like to see. We need another 8 besides Faletau. Anybody who says Andy Powell gets negged.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I've seen him get pushed around in the scrums at times, and sometimes for ruck infringements. Bevington is a safer bet with regards to penalties.

But doesn't Bevington do exactly the same? In me eyes that is seemingly ignored. I only had to watch today's game and he was lucky not to get penalised more often at scrum. He also tends to fade in and out of games regularly. The same myth argument is given about Gill. If you were to pick players based on the amount of penalties they give away then some regular starters for Wales and club sides would not play. Gill has done the job for Wales and done it well, some would argue he wasn't great against the Barbarians but neither was the entire team.

I really can't be bothered defending the likes of Gill anymore. It becomes tiring and just a repeat process. Bloody depressing.

 

[Draggs]

Gill conceded three penalties in both tests this year, more than any other player. His tackle stats v Ireland were also the lowest of the front rowers.
I think he is a decent club player, but simply not up to international rugby.

I'd rather see Rhodri Jones get a good solid season with the Turks at loosehead, I think he will make a good player. Rob Evans is another for the future.

Bevington is ever-improving, and could offer front row mobility comparable to on-form Jenkins. I'd rest Ryan (god knows he needs it) and consider Paul James for captaincy. He is a very dedicated player and also one who doesn't do stupid things.

We all have our own player preference, just comes down to personal opinions mate. I have been on an Alex Cuthbert crusade for the past year, how do you think that is going?

PAUL JAMES 2013.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Gill conceded three penalties in both tests this year, more than any other player. His tackle stats v Ireland were also the lowest of the front rowers.
I think he is a decent club player, but simply not up to international rugby.

I take the stats from ESPN Scrum with a pinch of salt, would be better if I had access to the Opta ones for the sake of the argument. But for arguments sake ...

(Captain Pedantic) Against Ireland Gill didn't miss a tackle, he made more meters than the other entire combination of the Welsh front row and sub. His tackle stats against the Barbarians was again high and didn't miss one, made more meters again on carries.

Looking back ... why have I become Captain Pedantic and started to argue stats of nothingness?