A Political Thread pt. 2

[dirty harry]

I actually think Isreal are dogshit at propaganda and haven’t controlled any narrative to be honest. Hamas are much better on that front. Obviously Isreal don’t exactly help themselves either but neither do Hamas.

It helps when western media use Hamas resources and statistics and present them as fact.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It helps when western media use Hamas resources and statistics and present them as fact.

And the UN fully on board as well. I’ve heard people at the UN talk like actual Hamas propagandists.

 

[dirty harry]

I still have one issue, which is that people keep suggesting that Hamas and the Israeli government are on equal footing. They are not. One holds almost all the power and the other fights back with what little they can. That doesn't make them right or their actions less abhorrent, but suggesting that Hamas have

I feel there's a distinction to be drawn between 7 October (which is a terrorist atrocity rather than the action of a state or population in my view) and the actions of the Israeli government against the Palestinians since then.

It doesn't strike me as a "war" when one side is barely capable of fighting back, has limited affiliation with one of the aggressors and is constantly having their infrastructure turned to rubble. Meanwhile they get to starve to death because they won't even allow aid in.

I agree with this 100% except for 1 little issue...

They just refused a ceasefire, they refuse to return hostages, and they poke the bear at every opportunity, like using aid money to build military infrastructure.

Hamas have agency, and they make decisions based on what they think is best for their... um... reputation? Doners? Place in history?

 

[dirty harry]

I appreciate you didn’t but saying they fight back with what little they can implies October 7th is legitimate resistance. They didn’t have to do that and they didn’t have to film it and they didn’t have to say straight after doing it they will do it again and again.

One side usually has a lot more power than another in a war. Especially in wars similar to this.

Didn't they also go on middle eastern TV trying to encourage the Islamic world to join them in this war to eradicate Isreal?

 

[dirty harry]

I would say the Ukraine war is a zero sum, though.

Depends which angle you look at it from, Russian, or Ukrainian citizens yes, Zelensky has gained a great deal, as has the Ukrainian military and reputation, trade and negotiations with USA etc..

 

[dirty harry]

And the UN fully on board as well. I’ve heard people at the UN talk like actual Hamas propagandists.

I remember early on the reports from the BBC, interviewing a UN on the number of deaths... never mentioned a source, and it turned out they literally just took it from the ministry of health, and were supposed to interview a MOH executive until he said some questionable pro Hamas things pre interview...

Wild times lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

I remember early on the reports from the BBC, interviewing a UN on the number of deaths... never mentioned a source, and it turned out they literally just took it from the ministry of health, and were supposed to interview a MOH executive until he said some questionable pro Hamas things pre interview...

Wild times lol

To be fair, though, and I'm not being a contrarian. This problem is also largely of Israel's making by not letting journalists in.

 

[Ddanno]

Unless Israel let journalists operate in Gaza safely it's only ever going to be he-said, she-said. There's a reason they won't do that.

 

[dirty harry]

To be fair, though, and I'm not being a contrarian. This problem is also largely of Israel's making by not letting journalists in.

100%! I would say Isreal are being outplayed in the propaganda sharing by a mile.

They were always going to struggle, bignpowerhouse showing aggression to minnows, but they could have handled the PR side of it much better, I mean they probably could have handled a lot of things better lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

Unless Israel let journalists operate in Gaza safely it's only ever going to be he-said, she-said. There's a reason they won't do that.

It’s impossible to operate in a ware zone safely. You can mitigate risks for sure but it’s never safe, especially in a conflict in such a tiny area. I agree, though, they still should’ve let them in and say some of you are going to die.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm not being a contrarian.

That makes one of you

 

[dirty harry]

It’s impossible to operate in a ware zone safely. You can mitigate risks for sure but it’s never safe, especially in a conflict in such a tiny area. I agree, though, they still should’ve let them in and say some of you are going to die.

I read a few weeks ago about a US based data group finding thousands of names being deleted from MOH lists on a regular basis, and that stats about women, children and loosely civilian deaths had been overblown to the degree that new stats show that the IDF are incredibly effective in their combatant / civilian KIA rate, certainly more so than the Afghnistan, or Iraq rates.

I also read an article from an IDF official that made the claim eruopean and US leaders backed the journalist ban based on safety, and they specifically discussed the Barbati case, in which an Italian reporter witnessed and could confirm an IDF action did not kill school children, but was essentially forced to report on behalf of Hamas's claims while in Gaza.

International journalists would not just be unsafe, but it would be unsafe for western governments when they inevitably are captured, and forced to write nonsense, before the negotiations for return. I probably agree though, let them all flood in, after signing waivers.

 

[Ddanno]

It's impossible to operate in a ware zone safely. You can mitigate risks for sure but it's never safe, especially in a conflict in such a tiny area. I agree, though, they still should've let them in and say some of you are going to die.

Oh sure, war zone journalists know what the risks are - poorly worded on my part - but they aren't letting anyone in

 

[Welsh Exile]

Oh sure, war zone journalists know what the risks are - poorly worded on my part - but they aren't letting anyone in

No it's **** poor and it's completely understandable, logical even (going on what we're seeing in Gaza) to assume that the reason behind why they won't is proper dodgy. I wouldn't rule it out but I think something like this wouldn't be purely down to Netenyahu and they'd be cultural things at play as well. Also not helped by this us against the world thing they tell themselves which while has some basis in truth it is also counterproductive.

 

[Ddanno]

Also not helped by this us against the world thing they tell themselves which while has some basis in truth it is also counterproductive.

And nonsensical, if the US suddenly withdrew military aid Israel would fall in weeks.

 

[Welsh Exile]

And nonsensical, if the US suddenly withdrew military aid Israel would fall in weeks.

Maybe, I’m not so sure, though. Having said that I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about really. I think it could definitely get pretty hairy for sure which is why you need America exerting influence.

I remember saying before the election in America that I could understand single issue voter Jews voting for Trump but really Trump isn’t good for Isreal, he may be one minute and then the next he’s taking a jet from Qatar and he couldn’t give a monkies. The only thing you can count on Trump to do is do what’s best for him at any given time.

 

[Ddanno]

The only thing you can count on Trump to do is do what's best for him at any given time.

Yep, and that's likely why Israel have been pushing harder recently. If he decides he wants a 'deal' with Iran (currently stockpiling uranium again) or the Saudis then possibly goodbye missiles shipments.

 

[AlRums]

To be fair, though, and I'm not being a contrarian. This problem is also largely of Israel's making by not letting journalists in.

And lying to journalists, like the way extra guns were "found" in a hospital between filming

 

[Which Tyler]

Polish presidential election looks like a close one

 

[dirty harry]

Yep, and that's likely why Israel have been pushing harder recently. If he decides he wants a 'deal' with Iran (currently stockpiling uranium again) or the Saudis then possibly goodbye missiles shipments.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Trump's position. He has totally changed his middle Eastern policy from culture change to economic advantage.

Isreal will not be left out in the cold, even when dropping bombs on Yemenese Houthis stop, when gulf states make trillion dollar deals, and give the USA 400 million dollar jets, and certainly not when an Iranian deal occurs...

All these allegations of 'tense discussions' from anonymous US / Isreali sources who are part of them lol, I've never seen a bigger chess move in all my life. It's all staged for Iran to capitulate.

Iran has no air defence, Hamas and Hetzbollah have been crippled, Trumpnis schmoozing the middle east, and word has it his keeping Isreal at bay on their behalf has made relations tense hahahaha

This has George Bush surprised Pikachu face level of theatre lol