Again as I mentioned Healy is contracted up until 2016 so it won't happen until then if it was to. But again it either a paper looking for a story or an agent preparing negotiations but Healy won't go anywhere. I'd presume it more papertalk as the research would show immediately it not true.
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Toulon - Cian Healy?
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Furthermore with the new system where IRFU are allowing private funding I can't see Toulon being able to offer that significant a pay rise to outweigh the negatives. Agree with MM probably the agent drumming up attention as a tool for down the line.
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Mtawarira was a good player 2 years ago but he has gone down hill under the new laws or fatigue for some reason.
gaston le gaff
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You could be well right, but more often than not its the agents who cause half the problems by inventing when they know contracts are coming to the end, which is not the case for Healy, but there have been buy outs before today, but i have to agree this could be fairly ficticious.,
Buyouts happen but never with IRFU. As I said it not true. Healy not the type to cause trouble for move so that won't happen. And well why'd he leave a good team on the rise again with Sexton coming back for an equally good team where he'd be flogged alot. In Ireland players get perks like Christmas holidays,
managed nicely and sponsorship deals are better for these guys here than the bigger ocean in France.
I doubt any Leinster fan is worried. With Sexton he was forced in to it but was a type of character that would try it. Heaslip is 1 I believe will go too. But not Healy and I believe it just papers looking for stories. There's alot of bluffer/fraud journalists reporting in Ireland and one of them probably chanced their arm at making their collumn interesting.
Serious question................is Healy really the player he was maybe two years ago? At that time he was one of then current great props but my impression is that he has regressed a little following that injury?
Big Ewis
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oh I've been watching him, I know. Still think he'd be a very good fit for Toulon, unless he degenerates considerably by post-2015. He'd make a good, strong, experienced 30+ yo LH for Toulon. OKAY ?!..
well he wasn't nearly as good a scrummager 2 years ago. He was good during the last 6N.
I think he is just hasn't performed at the level enough recently due to injuries stopping the consistency. But as was said his scrummaging is better and he's easily up there with best in world.
This is it. No harm to Toulon on my part, if they can get him, then good luck to him and them, I just don't find it very realistic. The current evidence says that signing a current first choice Irish international is nearly as hard as signing a first choice NZ international. As mentioned, the likely money is on it being an agent stirring, and as said in the article, it wouldn't happen until 2016 anyway.
I also think people are forgetting about the Lions tour. There were definite worries about player release before that one, it is quite likely that players in France will be stuck in a cleft, and players do want to go on it. Particularly guys like Healy, who have lost the opportunity once before.
I also think people are forgetting about the Lions tour. There were definite worries about player release before that one, it is quite likely that players in France will be stuck in a cleft, and players do want to go on it. Particularly guys like Healy, who have lost the opportunity once before.
Funny, the article falls short of answering the question it asks.
and the comparison with soccer has no point. No rugby player over here drives a Lamborghini.
Falcao at Man U earns more than the entire salary cap of a Top 14 club.
Don't you love your media tripe about the Top 14...
and the comparison with soccer has no point. No rugby player over here drives a Lamborghini.
Falcao at Man U earns more than the entire salary cap of a Top 14 club.
Don't you love your media tripe about the Top 14...
Thanks fella!
gaston le gaff
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Don't you just love these posters who make a massive impression with their first ever post, hearty congrats to Rugbyheadline and even more congrats to the journo who wrote it if its the same person take a bow Monsieur, next time do your homework instead of writing ficticious rubbish.
Fairly unknown rugby club Toulon??????
4 FRENCH CHAMPIOPNSHIPS, 2 PRO D2 CHAMPIONSHIPS, 40 French Internationals over the number of years the club has evolved, winning nearly 400 caps between them, created, in 1908, Great players, heres just a few, Califano remember him even went to NZ to play, 3 Herrero brothers, Bruno, Carrere Champ, Crenca,Tordo, Gallion, Huber ,Maestri the list goes on and on and they are all French but if i listed them all it would really be embarassing. Presidents have sports cars Ferraris, Lamborginis, Maserati etc but have you ever seen a 120+kgs TOP 14 forward trying to get into a modern day sports car, could be fun, but how the hell would he get out, just think of it "sorry boss can't play today, stuck in the car again "!!!!!!! Toulons average att. around 14,000 per match per season they are also self finacing, thats means the President does not shovel bucket loads of cash into the club every week, but uses the cash which is generated by the club at all levels to run a very successful rugby club who can afford to do exactly what they are doing, irrespective whether Rugyheadline likes it or not
The Salary cap has been in the Top 14 for many years it seems this gentleman is ignorant of this!!!! but it's 10,000,000 €'s which is about £8,333,333, so you take the Premiership salary cap just been uped to £6.5 mil + 2 marquee players.at eg 500,000 per year thats a million so we are now at 7.5mil but in France the academy's costs are included in the salary cap is this true in the Premiership??? so there is not much difference at the end of the day.
Why always Toulon, Toulouse Racing and others have bigger budgets, but we hear alot less about them, this could be a " have a massive budget but do not win anything so thats fine, Toulon have not done this so they are in the front line taking all the flak", obviously the price you pay for success!!!!!!
The problem with the French National team, yes i agree there is, but is not due to the money situation or the importation of the foreigners, more the coaching staff they are going through a very bad patch but they will get better after the WC next year, after the new coaches are in place.also maybe a good idea to have a look at what the "JIF" is might open a few eyes.
Critisism is fine as long as its somewhere near the truth, this is so far of, it's plain ridulous, i understand there is a problem in the UK with the way the French TOP 14 is run, but this continuous bleating is becoming increasingly boring, to actually make comparisons with the Premier league in Footie is somewhat hilarious, 2 players in one club earn more than the budgets of some of the other TOP 14 clubs
I am not a massive fan of Toulon but why should they be continually slagged off by anyone and everyone especially when its from reading articles which have little or no truth to them, so it is my duty to try and defend them, so if this gets up peoples noses so be it, but lets print the honest truth about these clubs and leave the bed time story stuff to our beloved children!!!!!!
I have tried to be polite and precise, but if you need to be personal as in many previous threads towards myself, please carry on, but its like poUring water on a ducks back!!!!
Don't you just love these posters who make a massive impression with their first ever post, hearty congrats to Rugbyheadline and even more congrats to the journo who wrote it if its the same person take a bow Monsieur, next time do your homework instead of writing ficticious rubbish.
Fairly unknown rugby club Toulon??????
4 FRENCH CHAMPIOPNSHIPS, 2 PRO D2 CHAMPIONSHIPS, 40 French Internationals over the number of years the club has evolved, winning nearly 400 caps between them, created, in 1908, Great players, heres just a few, Califano remember him even went to NZ to play, 3 Herrero brothers, Bruno, Carrere Champ, Crenca,Tordo, Gallion, Huber ,Maestri the list goes on and on and they are all French but if i listed them all it would really be embarassing. Presidents have sports cars Ferraris, Lamborginis, Maserati etc but have you ever seen a 120+kgs TOP 14 forward trying to get into a modern day sports car, could be fun, but how the hell would he get out, just think of it "sorry boss can't play today, stuck in the car again "!!!!!!! Toulons average att. around 14,000 per match per season they are also self finacing, thats means the President does not shovel bucket loads of cash into the club every week, but uses the cash which is generated by the club at all levels to run a very successful rugby club who can afford to do exactly what they are doing, irrespective whether Rugyheadline likes it or not
The Salary cap has been in the Top 14 for many years it seems this gentleman is ignorant of this!!!! but it's 10,000,000 €'s which is about £8,333,333, so you take the Premiership salary cap just been uped to £6.5 mil + 2 marquee players.at eg 500,000 per year thats a million so we are now at 7.5mil but in France the academy's costs are included in the salary cap is this true in the Premiership??? so there is not much difference at the end of the day.
Why always Toulon, Toulouse Racing and others have bigger budgets, but we hear alot less about them, this could be a " have a massive budget but do not win anything so thats fine, Toulon have not done this so they are in the front line taking all the flak", obviously the price you pay for success!!!!!!
The problem with the French National team, yes i agree there is, but is not due to the money situation or the importation of the foreigners, more the coaching staff they are going through a very bad patch but they will get better after the WC next year, after the new coaches are in place.also maybe a good idea to have a look at what the "JIF" is might open a few eyes.
Critisism is fine as long as its somewhere near the truth, this is so far of, it's plain ridulous, i understand there is a problem in the UK with the way the French TOP 14 is run, but this continuous bleating is becoming increasingly boring, to actually make comparisons with the Premier league in Footie is somewhat hilarious, 2 players in one club earn more than the budgets of some of the other TOP 14 clubs
I am not a massive fan of Toulon but why should they be continually slagged off by anyone and everyone especially when its from reading articles which have little or no truth to them, so it is my duty to try and defend them, so if this gets up peoples noses so be it, but lets print the honest truth about these clubs and leave the bed time story stuff to our beloved children!!!!!!
I have tried to be polite and precise, but if you need to be personal as in many previous threads towards myself, please carry on, but its like poUring water on a ducks back!!!!
sorry hit the wrong key!!!!!!!
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We'll said Gaston and we can only hope that it now puts an end to this saga but would bet it will not!!!!
Was this your 1st post
Ye are going well in Top14 my man. Look dangerous from bits I've seen and dare I say it better than last year.
gaston le gaff
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even the great have been know you have a mishap from time to time.!!!!!!!
see you in the 1/4's i hope!!!! as far as the team goes we had everybody from the start of the season well even the 6 weeks prep before the start so much easier to get all a team thinking in the same direction, we are just waiting for Pat Cilliers the Saffa prop top to arrive after the Currie Cup, end of Oct i think.Tough match tonight against Stade who are on a high after beating Toulon in Toulon last week could be a handful but if we play well should get at least 4pts, but no FTD his young replacement Enzo Selponi makes his debut but he was -20 fly half for the last 2/3 years and he is very good for a young un!!!!
see you in the 1/4's i hope!!!! as far as the team goes we had everybody from the start of the season well even the 6 weeks prep before the start so much easier to get all a team thinking in the same direction, we are just waiting for Pat Cilliers the Saffa prop top to arrive after the Currie Cup, end of Oct i think.Tough match tonight against Stade who are on a high after beating Toulon in Toulon last week could be a handful but if we play well should get at least 4pts, but no FTD his young replacement Enzo Selponi makes his debut but he was -20 fly half for the last 2/3 years and he is very good for a young un!!!!
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Interesting article. Some posters are getting a little over defensive about it
but its a big topic in rugby at the moment and its not going to go away. -The French salary cap was mentioned but its well know there are ways around that. Image rights, employing family members etc.
-French clubs get to use stadiums provided free by the local council and in Toulons case they get paid millions from the city because they're viewed as being important to the city. So French clubs are not as private as people think.
-While France is driving up costs, other nations are also competing against each other. For example Leinster have just signed Australian international Kane Douglas and Gareth Anscombe has signed for Cardiff. So its probably unfair to put too much blame on the French. Its what happens in professional sport.
-The way the clubs are going its basically turning rugby into a soccer style sport where the gap between the bottom, middle and top teams in the leagues is growing. Prize money should always continue to be as evenly distributed as possible to avoid this.
-As the gap grows between the top and bottom French clubs, you could see the success of the top 14 being its own worst enemy. Nobody wants to watch matches where the smaller teams are going to get a beating.
-The French national side is suffering due to the success for the top 14. Thats a price they have to pay. I think theres a new English type of player welfare deal made this season. Lets see if it has any effect.
gaston le gaff
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Interesting article. Some posters are getting a little over defensive about it
-The French salary cap was mentioned but its well know there are ways around that. Image rights, employing family members etc.
-French clubs get to use stadiums provided free by the local council and in Toulons case they get paid millions from the city because they're viewed as being important to the city. So French clubs are not as private as people think.
-While France is driving up costs, other nations are also competing against each other. For example Leinster have just signed Australian international Kane Douglas and Gareth Anscombe has signed for Cardiff. So its probably unfair to put too much blame on the French. Its what happens in professional sport.
-The way the clubs are going its basically turning rugby into a soccer style sport where the gap between the bottom, middle and top teams in the leagues is growing. Prize money should always continue to be as evenly distributed as possible to avoid this.
-As the gap grows between the top and bottom French clubs, you could see the success of the top 14 being its own worst enemy. Nobody wants to watch matches where the smaller teams are going to get a beating.
-The French national side is suffering due to the success for the top 14. Thats a price they have to pay. I think theres a new English type of player welfare deal made this season. Lets see if it has any effect.
Nobody is being defensive i am just putting the honest truth infront of you, instead of articles that are really make belief!!
1 If you think the stadiums are free you live in cuckoo land we rent the stadiums and they are very expensive rates, nothing is free in this world.
2 please do not make the comparison with footie French rugby is nothing like it.
3 The big bugets teams middle and smaller budgets, please explain why Toulouse and Castres are nowhere near the top of the TOP 14, Toulouse being the largest budget and Castres another hefty one, so how is the gap growing, Bordeaux have a smaller budget and they are doing very well, pure fantasy!!!!
4. image rights non existant they are for players nothing to do with club budgets, employing family members, do you really think this is going to make a massive difference if it exists in like 1% similar to petty cash.!!!
5. The French National team is suffering!!! nothing to do with club bugets or foreigners just change the coaches and several positions in the FFR and the difference will be seen by all.
6 As far as Toulon is concerned they have payments from the local city authorities, yes and its not the multi millions you suggest, but most of that goes towards running of the academies and the rugby schools which can hold as many as 1,000 kids, most of this money is put back into the grass roots of the club and surrounding clubs it does not go into the pockets of the pro's.
7. The bugets that clubs use in France are monitored by the DCGN, which is run buy the a goverment authority, you have negligence in your audits and you can be relegated to 2/3 div below or fined very substancial amounts of €'s, eg Montaban a few years back and several TOP 14 clubs have come very close to it being relegated but instead fines huge amounts.
8. Nobody is going to watch the little guys get a beating from the big bully top buget teams, have a look at the at the average club attendances in the TOP 14 make the comparisons with the Premiership and the Celtic leagues, La Rochelle very near the bottom yet they get around 15,000 which is capacity most home games.
Please please if you are going to post honest articles do your homework i think i have answered all your statemenst as accurately as possible with the truth, you have mentioned so many points that are just guess work nothing more nothing less.
Interesting article. Some posters are getting a little over defensive about it
-The French salary cap was mentioned but its well know there are ways around that. Image rights, employing family members etc.
-The French national side is suffering due to the success for the top 14. Thats a price they have to pay. I think theres a new English type of player welfare deal made this season. Lets see if it has any effect.
I like the bit about FREE stadiums. Hilarious
. Gaston has all the answers. Will just add my 2 cents.the national side is suffering because it has been messed around by the incompetent fools of FFR. Not because of the Top 14. The article is asking the wrong questions. They should be asking.
What have FFR done to protect the national sidde? answer is NOTHING.
what have LNR done to protect the league? answer is NOTHING.
FFR are incapable of involving the clubs in the running of the national team, yet this is is exactly what they should be doing as a matter of priority. Even Toulouse these days are no longer buying into the current national side.
Les Bleus are not FFR's priority. FFR have their own agenda.
Their priority is 1) to win the presidency election in 2016 and reelect their own men (Blanco)
2) to build a new stadium outside of Paris that will sink a staggering 600 Millions euros. See for yourself http://grandstaderugby.fr/
So you think the money is bad in Top 14? just ponder about the insanity of building another stadium to the tune of +600 M Euros in a country where there is no shortage of stadiums.
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Big Ewis
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I've read gaston's full post up there but haven't read all of this thread's posts. I'd like to say a few things about the French national team that seem to be surfacing here.
The idea that we have too many foreigners, and that this is making us a weaker nation is ridiculous. I'm tired of repeating this so won't be explicit, but we're made stronger by the current Top 14 setting.
Think: the perfect utopic situation for France would be a plethora of clubs, not just a handful, where each team is *truly* competitive, no.14 can beat no.1, no.13 can beat no.2. Each team would have good company, really good players everywhere, not just all concentrated in the titanic strongholds like Toulouse and Paris. No, everywhere, spread out. As to not isolate ourselves, let's make our league more vibrant yet by adding SH players: we'd be used to South African forward monsters, Fijian race-cars on the wings, and graced by the professionalism of stars from around the globe like the Wilkos, Giteaus or others.
With all the foreigners in our clubs, we still produce the Lamerat, Teddy Thomas, Jonathan Danty, Sofiane Guitoune, Brice Dulin...which are all young, world class players. Nothing short of that.
Even the "France doesn't produce flyhalves" bullshieet cliché is wronger than ever this season with Lopez, Trinh-Duc, Pierre Bernard, Jon Wisniewski, Plisson easily in the Top 10 league wide. This season I'd even include Michalak in there in fact.
TIGHTHEAD IN DANGER IN FRANCE !
The one department, as I keep reiterating, where we are CLEARLY in deficit though, and this is bad; in this scope of foreigners hindering our local talent, is specifically the Tighthead Prop position. All Pacific Islander (huge, cannon fodder) or Georgians (already trained often, excellent adequate physiology, cheap). We now have to count on a young kiwi Samoan from the Pacific (Uini Atonio) to conduct our scrum on the right. I appreciate him a lot personally, but where are our rugged, ballsy Southwestern French front row destroyers ? Califano, Milloud, Servat, Mas, Lecouls, Marconnet, Poux, Crenca...where are those scrummaging legends ????
Our closest incarnation of that is currently Clermont's Clément Ric, who's alright but not nearly dominant.
I understand the rules have changed and you wouldn't see this sort of procession nowadays, but just for the good old times:
(front rows in the description)
The idea that we have too many foreigners, and that this is making us a weaker nation is ridiculous. I'm tired of repeating this so won't be explicit, but we're made stronger by the current Top 14 setting.
Think: the perfect utopic situation for France would be a plethora of clubs, not just a handful, where each team is *truly* competitive, no.14 can beat no.1, no.13 can beat no.2. Each team would have good company, really good players everywhere, not just all concentrated in the titanic strongholds like Toulouse and Paris. No, everywhere, spread out. As to not isolate ourselves, let's make our league more vibrant yet by adding SH players: we'd be used to South African forward monsters, Fijian race-cars on the wings, and graced by the professionalism of stars from around the globe like the Wilkos, Giteaus or others.
With all the foreigners in our clubs, we still produce the Lamerat, Teddy Thomas, Jonathan Danty, Sofiane Guitoune, Brice Dulin...which are all young, world class players. Nothing short of that.
Even the "France doesn't produce flyhalves" bullshieet cliché is wronger than ever this season with Lopez, Trinh-Duc, Pierre Bernard, Jon Wisniewski, Plisson easily in the Top 10 league wide. This season I'd even include Michalak in there in fact.
TIGHTHEAD IN DANGER IN FRANCE !
The one department, as I keep reiterating, where we are CLEARLY in deficit though, and this is bad; in this scope of foreigners hindering our local talent, is specifically the Tighthead Prop position. All Pacific Islander (huge, cannon fodder) or Georgians (already trained often, excellent adequate physiology, cheap). We now have to count on a young kiwi Samoan from the Pacific (Uini Atonio) to conduct our scrum on the right. I appreciate him a lot personally, but where are our rugged, ballsy Southwestern French front row destroyers ? Califano, Milloud, Servat, Mas, Lecouls, Marconnet, Poux, Crenca...where are those scrummaging legends ????
Our closest incarnation of that is currently Clermont's Clément Ric, who's alright but not nearly dominant.
I understand the rules have changed and you wouldn't see this sort of procession nowadays, but just for the good old times:
(front rows in the description)
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1. Unlike Britain and Ireland (with the exception of Ulsters Ravenhill) most teams in France didn't have to pay to build the stadiums. They are owned by the local councils.
2. French rugby is club rugby and its run similar to soccer with a few exceptions.
3. Pure fantasy that big budgets buys success? I don't think so. Toulouse has always been the wealthiest club in Europe in the professional era and they've won 4 HECs. Big spending Toulon have won the last 2. Of course money isn't everything but it helps. Rugby is continuing to go more the way of soccer. The wealthy clubs now will get bigger sponsorship and the cycle will continue.
4. Its been well known that clubs have many tactics to get around the salary cap. Free housing and cars, family members employed, free food and other free things, image rights, post retirement job etc.
5. You might be right. Its been well documented (by you French posters too) that France and French teams are disadvantaged because they have to play more games. So the coach might be bad but he isn't being helped either. “In France, an international player can play 43 games/season but is only at national team’s disposal for 87 days. All Blacks internationals usually play a maximum of 26 games and spend 146 days together as a squad. English internationals play 26 games and spend 119 days with the national coach. In Oz, its 26 matches/145 days.” http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/11/02/philippe-saint-andre-on-whats-wrong-with-french-rugby/
6. From the previous link it said they receive €3m from local city council.
7. See point 4. They watch clubs but theres ways around the salary cap.
8 I said in future the league could damage itself if the big teams get too big and start hammering the smaller sides. Everything is grand now but things can change.
It looks like you're in denial. Anyway some French posters are getting a little too defensive. Pointing out that French rugby could damage the game around the world is just stating the obvious. The more they drive up wages the more other countries comes under pressure. People like Boudjellah is dangerous for the game because he has no sense of history and doesn't care about French rugby but only about HIS team.
Its very dangerous for France too to have the wages driven up. Smaller clubs might not ask themselves why bother developing players and investing in the future when they need more players now to get results. England is similar. Last weekend Saracens hammered Harlequins 39 - 0 or something like that. Saracens sign players from around the world while Harlequins have been trying to produce their own players. Harlequins might be rethinking that strategy to remain competitive at the top.
