[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: France vs. England (19/03/2016)

[Willodell100]

For fear of pedantry, Chudley is 28 today according to Facebook! It's a shame that he came to top flight rugby so late, he would never have been a world beater, but could have been a consistent option for England during a period when consistent performances have been sadly lacking.

In that case Happy Birthday Will!

Also Dan Robson turned 24 on Monday according to Wikipedia.

 

[Every Time Ref]

OK, I'll bite. What makes you think that England are overconfident? If other posters are right that Care has been brought in to target the French midfield, then surely says that Jones is taking the opposition seriously.

I don't follow the popular press, maybe there are signs of overconfidence there.

On this forum, the only comments that I've seen from respected posters seem reasonable - England are favourites, but it's far from a foregone conclusion.

Maybe one of us is misinterpreting the signals. I'd be interested to know why you think that England are overconfident.

Arrogant

 

[Willodell100]

For fear of pedantry, Chudley is 28 today according to Facebook! It's a shame that he came to top flight rugby so late, he would never have been a world beater, but could have been a consistent option for England during a period when consistent performances have been sadly lacking.

In that case Happy Birthday Will!

Also Dan Robson turned 24 on Monday according to Wikipedia.

 

[ElRoach]

Well, I have watched every match so far, and on Saturday night I have to go to an amateur Theatre production. yay for me.

Depressing thoughts aside. I believe England have to be favourites for this game, and they really will have only themselves to blame if they throw this away. I thought Youngs did very well at some aspects of the game such as keeping his head up and looking for space, and getting to the breakdown asap. As some of you have said, his deliveries were suspect at times but no one is perfect. If there were small holes around the fringes I would back Care to get through them over youngs as his acceleration is amazing. So with those two 9's switching around, I cant complain about Care starting, I do agree that one of them needs to step it up, but im unsure if that will actually happen.

With regards to Marler/Mako (Marlo?) again I am unfazed by the change. I think Mako deserves a shot even if Marler was dropped for whatever. Does anyone know when the next England games are? I struggled to find it.

 

[RedruthRFC]

As some of you have said, his deliveries were suspect at times but no one is perfect. If there were small holes around the fringes I would back Care to get through them over youngs as his acceleration is amazing. So with those two 9's switching around, I cant complain about Care starting, I do agree that one of them needs to step it up, but im unsure if that will actually happen.

With regards to Marler/Mako (Marlo?) again I am unfazed by the change. I think Mako deserves a shot even if Marler was dropped for whatever. Does anyone know when the next England games are? I struggled to find it.

If England do indeed attack France wider out earlier on, we can expect more gaps around the fringes, so Care's selection seems sensible. I also agree that it's good to see how Mako looks in the starting shirt.

Here's the summer tour details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_England_rugby_union_tour_of_Australia

Enjoy your trip to the theatre!

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Arrogant

My bad!

Genuine question though. I'm open to the possibility that I've glossed over / brushed under the carpet arrogant comments that don't fit with my view of the game or idea of sporting etiquette. If this is the case, I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong.

 

[Thingimubob]

If England do indeed attack France wider out earlier on, we can expect more gaps around the fringes, so Care's selection seems sensible. I also agree that it's good to see how Mako looks in the starting shirt.

Here's the summer tour details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_England_rugby_union_tour_of_Australia

Enjoy your trip to the theatre!

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My bad!

Genuine question though. I'm open to the possibility that I've glossed over / brushed under the carpet arrogant comments that don't fit with my view of the game or idea of sporting etiquette. If this is the case, I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong.

Assuming you missed the "Arrogant English" recurring joke that started a while back?

Damn arrogant English too arrogant to see their own arrogance.

 

[ElRoach]

If England do indeed attack France wider out earlier on, we can expect more gaps around the fringes, so Care's selection seems sensible. I also agree that it's good to see how Mako looks in the starting shirt.

Here's the summer tour details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_England_rugby_union_tour_of_Australia

Enjoy your trip to the theatre!

Thanks for that. Should have trusted my first google a bit more! I would like to think that we will try the same tactics as most of the other games. Tempo, quick ball, heads up rugby. My knowledge of this French team is actually the worst of all the nations (apart from maybe Italy) so I find it difficult to talk about how we will match up. What I will say, is after watching France, I feel they lack a real game plan, and look lost a lot of the time. I am hoping we have a better blend of using Billy and shipping it out, we have to keep them honest after all.

We did some great blind side attacking plan against wales, so I am interested to see if anyone thinks if that was specifically targeted at Wales?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I can't believe some of the comments about Youngs, I genuinely thought he had a good game. Dodgy pass for Ford obviously, but other than that he kept the tempo up and looked dangerous. Don't think Care has offered anything more than Youngs did last game. Still, they're very evenly matched players, whichever one starts seems to have a lot of criticism levelled at them whilst the other is praised as the solution to all our problems. When Care starts kicking poorly and giving away possession we will once again long for the days of Ben Youngs.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Assuming you missed the "Arrogant English" recurring joke that started a while back?

Damn arrogant English too arrogant to see their own arrogance.

My bad again, I should have added a "lol" and a smiley to the original "my bad"! I'm mostly a lurker, but have been lurking for long enough to get the joke.

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I can't believe some of the comments about Youngs, I genuinely thought he had a good game. Dodgy pass for Ford obviously, but other than that he kept the tempo up and looked dangerous. Don't think Care has offered anything more than Youngs did last game. Still, they're very evenly matched players, whichever one starts seems to have a lot of criticism levelled at them whilst the other is praised as the solution to all our problems. When Care starts kicking poorly and giving away possession we will once again long for the days of Ben Youngs.

Isn't this the Hobson's Choice situation that other posters have bemoaned though? If you look the choice in terms of staff recruitment, if you're "recruiting" a scrum half, you have a set of essentials and a set of desirables. The way I see it, there isn't a SH in the EPS who has a full list of essentials, Care is at least a good breaking scrum half which I would call a desirable which you could say tips the scales in his favour. Given that both player's strengths and weaknesses are well known, I don't see a problem with picking the player whose strengths are best suited to a given game or whose weaknesses are less likely to be problematic.

FWIW, maybe I've got a bit of a downer on Youngs, but I seem to have spent a fiar portion of the Six Nations screaming at him to get the ball out, then bemoaning the result when he actually does, so I'm happy with the change.

 

[Thingimubob]

My bad again, I should have added a "lol" and a smiley to the original "my bad"! I'm mostly a lurker, but have been lurking for long enough to get the joke.

Haha fair play mate! Obvz too arrogant for smileys

 

[Every Time Ref]

I can't believe some of the comments about Youngs, I genuinely thought he had a good game. Dodgy pass for Ford obviously, but other than that he kept the tempo up and looked dangerous. Don't think Care has offered anything more than Youngs did last game. Still, they're very evenly matched players, whichever one starts seems to have a lot of criticism levelled at them whilst the other is praised as the solution to all our problems. When Care starts kicking poorly and giving away possession we will once again long for the days of Ben Youngs.

Still disagree about Youngs's performance on Saturday but you're bang on about the relationship between Care, Youngs and the English fans!

Haha fair play mate! Obvz too arrogant for smileys

Only because there isn't a "Lick my shoe, peasant" smiley

 

[RedruthRFC]

Only because there isn't a "Lick my shoe, peasant" smiley

How about :whip: ?

Obviously it would represent one of my subordinates keeping the masses oppressed rather than me getting my hands dirty!

 

[Peat]

I thought Ben Youngs had a very good game when not required to pass the ball more than 5m but a genuinely horrifying, abysmal game when he was required to do so. His passing actually seems to be getting worse.

I suppose flip-flopping between whichever of the two is the least out of form isn't the worst thing to do for scrum-half around, but my desire for consistently international standard 9 has only grown and grown. Last Lions tour, I thought it possible both would travel. Next one, I hope neither's within a million miles of it (as things stand).

 

[TobesHodges]

Never ever right off the French!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I thought Ben Youngs had a very good game when not required to pass the ball more than 5m but a genuinely horrifying, abysmal game when he was required to do so. His passing actually seems to be getting worse.[/QUOTE

The 9 sets the tempo for the team and sometimes when Youngs has the ball at his feet you can almost see the cogs turning as he cogitates on what to do next. But in contrast he's got a great instinct when the gap opens.

I guess I see the 9's pass as I see a prop's scrummaging - the absolute staple of their position. If they can't do it consistently they can't be certain of their place.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

It is a frustrating one with Youngs to be sure

I thought Ben Youngs had a very good game when not required to pass the ball more than 5m but a genuinely horrifying, abysmal game when he was required to do so. His passing actually seems to be getting worse.[/QUOTE

The 9 sets the tempo for the team and sometimes when Youngs has the ball at his feet you can almost see the cogs turning as he cogitates on what to do next. But in contrast he's got a great instinct when the gap opens.

I guess I see the 9's pass as I see a prop's scrummaging - the absolute staple of their position. If they can't do it consistently they can't be certain of their place.

I've rarely seen a 9 happier to be in close proximity to players around the fringes (Phillips for Wales maybe). He causes defences all sorts of problems by refusing to just sling it wide, or perhaps it's because he can't? But he's capable and often holds the back row and involves the opposing 10 in trying to stop him. That in itself creates space outside. I can't believe how often he survives for as long as he does considering where he puts himself and how rarely he coughs it up because of it. When he does get through he's quick enough to get behind and then he's a good decision maker.

Care is a better passer, quicker speed of thought and generally just quicker. But he doesn't pose a physical threat. Once caught, he's done. Thus, to play Care you have to have another way of creating space. Watching the French thus far I reckon the plan is to get outside the 13. We'll see how that goes.............

 

[Maverick1987]

Man I wish we had either Gareth Davies or Rhys Webb available for us ..... Maybe Dan Robson can be our gem but I'm leaning a bit more towards Ben Spencer tbh

 

[ElRoach]

Man I wish we had either Gareth Davies or Rhys Webb available for us ..... Maybe Dan Robson can be our gem but I'm leaning a bit more towards Ben Spencer tbh

Gareth Davies? I don't see what all the hype is about really. Webb on the other hand, I can see him being the Lions 9. Don't see Care or Youngs getting a look in at the moment with their current form. I would like to know what benefit, if any, does the team have by switching Ben Youngs and Danny Care each game? Fresh legs? Difficult for France to see how we are going to play? I don't know. What I do know, is that hospital pass led to the charge down, which led to the try which led to the Welsh getting their heads up which led to us almost losing the game. Above poster said that passing is like a props scrum. I have to agree.

 

[optimuswolf]

I've rarely seen a 9 happier to be in close proximity to players around the fringes (Phillips for Wales maybe). He causes defences all sorts of problems by refusing to just sling it wide, or perhaps it's because he can't? But he's capable and often holds the back row and involves the opposing 10 in trying to stop him. That in itself creates space outside. I can't believe how often he survives for as long as he does considering where he puts himself and how rarely he coughs it up because of it. When he does get through he's quick enough to get behind and then he's a good decision maker.

Care is a better passer, quicker speed of thought and generally just quicker. But he doesn't pose a physical threat. Once caught, he's done. Thus, to play Care you have to have another way of creating space. Watching the French thus far I reckon the plan is to get outside the 13. We'll see how that goes.............

Just wanted to say i think this post is spot on. One of my mates consistently moans about youngs slow service (as do some on here, but he really fixes the fringe defenders and he usually makes the right decision.

Just flinging it out from the ruck old skool is mana from heaven for modern blitz defences.

That said, he's gotta pass more consistently particularly when ford goes deeper.

I'd have murray and webb ahead of him in lions terms right now. Maybe even davies.

 

[Thingimubob]

Gareth Davies? I don't see what all the hype is about really. Webb on the other hand, I can see him being the Lions 9. Don't see Care or Youngs getting a look in at the moment with their current form. I would like to know what benefit, if any, does the team have by switching Ben Youngs and Danny Care each game? Fresh legs? Difficult for France to see how we are going to play? I don't know. What I do know, is that hospital pass led to the charge down, which led to the try which led to the Welsh getting their heads up which led to us almost losing the game. Above poster said that passing is like a props scrum. I have to agree.

To be fair to Davies, he is currently where Webb was a year or two ago. Guy is a prolific try scorer and adds a lot to a team, but his decision making at the top level isn't quite there yet. Wasn't that long ago that Webb was throwing silly passes and getting intercepted by onrushing blitz defenders by picking the wrong receiver (did it twice vs Aus in 2013 - had he picked the right guy to pass to ,we'd have been in for a try both times).

Obviously he's worked hard on that aspect to get to where he is now, and I'm confident that Davies will up his game and work on his decision making now that Webb is back fit!

Anyway back on topic!

I find Youngs' passing style odd in the sense that it looks as if it shouldn't really come off, but yet it still does!

Watching the game last week, when he went off on one of his little runs around the fringes, it seemed really obvious where the ball was going, yet more often than not the pass came off and England made decent ground.

Obviously as a spectator, I'm always gonna have a better overview of what's happening than any of the guys in the defensive line would, but it still looks so telegraphed!