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[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 5: South Africa v Australia (29/09/2018)

TRF_heineken

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Venue: Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium
Time: 17:05 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
Teams

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Andre Esterhuizen, 11 Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Sikhumbuzo Notshe, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Tendai Mtawarira


Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Wilco Louw, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Damian Willemse


Australia: 15 Dane Haylett-Petty, 14 Israel Folau, 13 Reece Hodge, 12 Matt Toomua, 11 Marika Koroibete, 10 Kurtley Beale, 9 Will Genia, 8 David Pocock, 7 Michael Hooper (captain), 6 Ned Hanigan, 5 Izack Rodda, 4 Adam Coleman, 3 Taniela Tupou, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 1 Scott Sio

Substitutes: 16 Folau Faingaa, 17 Sekope Kepu, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rory Arnold, 20 Rob Simmons, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Bernard Foley, 23 Jack Maddocks

 
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Oliver Madden

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what does everyone think here?. personally I can't see past an easy win for the Boks. the Wallabies are an absolute rabble at present. my gut feeling is that Cheika needs at least one win from this tour to save his job. don't see him getting it here though. SA will win easy, by more than 20 points.
 

mania

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yeah my moneys on the boks. more important than winning for the boks is to show some consistency. they need to play with the heart they showed in wellington. if they can sustain that level of commitment then they are back on the road to recovery.
but aus can take this. WBs are smart enough to do enough to win it, if boks let them.

i dont believe cheika's job is on the line tho. not till after the next wc
 

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Well I'm hoping for a good showing from the boys. I was surprized that we didn't have a lot of injuries after that monumental effort against the AB's. But I do suspect that we'll see a few changes in the starting line-up, and perhaps a fresh face here or there.

I think Marx and Etzebeth might be on the bench this week, with Mbonambi and Snyman coming in for a start, while the rumour is that Jantjies will start at 10 with Pollard at 12.

The big question everyone is asking is who will play 13? It seems like it's either going to be Jesse Kriel or Ruhan Nel.

As for the back 3, it looks like Sbu Nkosi might come back at 14 and Kolbe might start at 15 with Willie Le Roux on the bench...

My biggest hope is that we keep the same intensity we had against the All Blacks.
 

mania

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My biggest hope is that we keep the same intensity we had against the All Blacks.
i hope so too. this has always been the boks achilles heel. keeping the intensity , brutality and accuracy levels up. such an awesome team when they play the ABs yet next game theyre unrecognisable.
good luck boks. hope theres lots of beautiful rugby and no injuries
 

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i hope so too. this has always been the boks achilles heel. keeping the intensity , brutality and accuracy levels up. such an awesome team when they play the ABs yet next game theyre unrecognisable.
good luck boks. hope theres lots of beautiful rugby and no injuries

I think this game will tell a lot about Rassie's coaching and whether he can get more out of his players than Allister Coetzee. I think Rassie has already shown that he's a better coach than AC was, and I'm not only using the victory against the AB's as an example. For me, the structures are just way better, and the defensive tactics we are employing are starting to show much sooner than under AC's reign.

Bok team will be announced today around lunch time.
 

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The Boks must get a win as the result would count more for their progress as a team than the performance would. This is where this side is at.

The Wallabies are now in a similar position to the Boks side going into the Wellington test in that they need a favorable result in an away fixture they aren't expected to win. Honorable mention to the Pumas for injecting some spice into TRC !

Sort of boils down to which side wants it the most on the day and we might not see the best rugby on display as a result (and as this fixture usually plays out), but you can bet the intensity to hit the roof if the scoreline stays close.
 

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Springboks

15 Willie le Roux
14 Cheslin Kolbe
13 Jesse Kriel
12 Andre Esterhuizen
11 Aphiwe Dyantyi
10 Handre Pollard
9 Faf de Klerk
8 Sikhumbuzo Notshe
7 Pieter-Steph du Toit
6 Siya Kolisi (captain)
5 Franco Mostert
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Frans Malherbe
2 Malcolm Marx
1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Wilco Louw, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Marco van Staden, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Damian Willemse

Kolbe gets a start on the wing, Notshe starts for the injured Whiteley, Esterhuizen and Kriel in for injured DDA and Am, Beast rotates with Kits and Embrose Papier & Marco van Staden are added to the bench

Wobblies

15 Dane Haylett-Petty
14 Israel Folau
13 Reece Hodge
12 Matt Toomua
11 Marika Koroibete
10 Kurtley Beale
9 Will Genia
8 David Pocock
7 Michael Hooper (captain)
6 Ned Hanigan
5 Izack Rodda
4 Adam Coleman
3 Taniela Tupou
2 Tatafu Polota-Nau
1 Scott Sio

Substitutes: 16 Folau Faingaa, 17 Sekope Kepu, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rory Arnold, 20 Rob Simmons, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Bernard Foley, 23 Jack Maddocks
 
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TRF_heineken

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Must say I'm a bit surprized that Rassie didn't make wholesale changes, but then again, it shows that he wants to build on that victory in NZ.

can't disagree much with the selections though, sensible selections...
 

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I don't understand why Chieka puts one of the best FBs in the game, Folau, on the wing. IMO Haylett-Petty is a better winger than Folau and Folau is a better FB than Haylett-Petty
 

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I don't understand why Chieka puts one of the best FBs in the game, Folau, on the wing. IMO Haylett-Petty is a better winger than Folau and Folau is a better FB than Haylett-Petty
cos folau doesnt have the traditional skills of a fullback. eg doesnt have a , get out of gaol, kicking game. or for that matter doesnt really have a kick. i ve seen him kick it once .
doesnt have a tackling game. fullBack is your last line of defence.

for all of folaus skills he can pretty much execute from anywhere on the field. he doesnt have to be FB to catch a high ball or do his hot stepping to score tries.

folau isnt the best FB around by a long shot. he's an awesome player but as far as FBs go theres way better with the right skillset to be back there
 

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I don't understand why Chieka puts one of the best FBs in the game, Folau, on the wing. IMO Haylett-Petty is a better winger than Folau and Folau is a better FB than Haylett-Petty
Folau is literally only good at two things. Running with the ball in hand and catching a ball in the air. Possibly the best in the world at those two things. Problem is, full backs need to be able to kick, have some semblance of positional awareness, tackle, pass, etc.

He's a strike winger through and through. DHP is much more rounded and is also the only form player in the Wallabies at the moment. He's like a slightly worse version of Bun Smuth.

That said, we have no chance of winning this match, at all. All the Bokkies have to do is not drop the pill 40 times like they did in Queensland and they win.

This is by far the worst Wallabies team i have ever seen. Beale at 10 is downright depressing.
 
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yeah my moneys on the boks. more important than winning for the boks is to show some consistency. they need to play with the heart they showed in wellington. if they can sustain that level of commitment then they are back on the road to recovery.
but aus can take this. WBs are smart enough to do enough to win it, if boks let them.

i dont believe cheika's job is on the line tho. not till after the next wc
That's the official line from RA but every man and his dog, even Cheika's staunch defenders (of which i used to be one), will be baying for blood if he comes away 0/2 from the next two games.

And rightly so. His strategic systems are faulty, he makes poor tactical and selection decisions. He's a tournament coach. Bring him in short term to motivate players to exceed their ordinary levels of performance. Worked perfectly in RWC15. He can't build a team though. Very similar to Eddie Jones.

If you look at the team on a player by player basis there is clearly enough talent to have them playing much better football. Australian rugby is in the doldrums but that excuse doesn't fly for levels of performance this low.
 

mania

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If you look at the team on a player by player basis there is clearly enough talent to have them playing much better football. Australian rugby is in the doldrums but that excuse doesn't fly for levels of performance this low.
sorry Derpus i disagree. i dont think Aus have the cattle at all.
when robbieDeans was coach it was the same thing. deans kept getting blamed for losing to the ABs, yet everyone was. Deans kept Aus consistently 2nd in the IRB rankings.
Deans got sent down the river without a paddle because it was perceived that the WBs could be better without him. at a guess i'd say that link was pulling some strings in the background to get the job. which he got then walked away from when things got a bit difficult.
time elasped now shows us that deans was the best modern day coach for aus since dwyer.

question Derpus - if the naysayers get their way and cheika gets dumped, who do u think would be able to do the job? i cant think of anyone good enough or more importantly desperate enough to take up the poison chalice that is the Wallabies Coach.

honestly its getting harder to coach the WBs than it is the Boks. at least SA have political interference and fierce parochialism to blame.
 

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The name being bandied about is Jake White, though i am skeptical he'll do any better. At some point your **** results have to mean your job, even if there isn't a better replacement. Has to be some accountability.

And who cares about being competitive with the All Blacks? It's irrelevant. Even at our absolute peak where we had best players in the world in key positions we were only competitive with you for 4 maybe 5 of the last 30+ years. It's just a stupid metric. You will continue to win 95% of your matches and the majority of all major competitions you compete in.

I'm more concerned with our performances against England, Ireland, Scotland, South African and Argentina. These are teams that we should be capable of competing with, and we have the playing stock to do so. 2015 proves this. We just aren't utilizing it.

Deans is another issue completely. He had a far better team than Cheika and was far more competitive. I agree that he got sacked unfairly and i also agree that it was entirely because we kept comparing ourselves to the All Blacks. Which, again, is stupid.

It doesnt help that we have to play you lot 3 times a year.

Anyway, this is quite off track. Springboks by 15.
 
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TRF_heineken

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Well the Aussies certainly have enough firepower in the backline to make life difficult for the Boks, but I think Australia's downfall might be their defence, Folau, Koroibete and Beale aren't that great at defending, and should the weather be nice and dry like I'm expecting it to be, I think the Boks might have the upper hand here.

My biggest worry is the breakdowns, with both Pocock and Hooper there and we only have Marx...
 

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Well the Aussies certainly have enough firepower in the backline to make life difficult for the Boks, but I think Australia's downfall might be their defence, Folau, Koroibete and Beale aren't that great at defending, and should the weather be nice and dry like I'm expecting it to be, I think the Boks might have the upper hand here.

My biggest worry is the breakdowns, with both Pocock and Hooper there and we only have Marx...
I know Kolisi went through a period where they were trying to convert him into a blindside flank and I know he is not a natural fetcher but I've been very disappointed with his industrious at the breakdown. Doesn't feature at all most matches in that area. If he could just add that trick to his bag he'll balance the backrow a bit.
 

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I know Kolisi went through a period where they were trying to convert him into a blindside flank and I know he is not a natural fetcher but I've been very disappointed with his industrious at the breakdown. Doesn't feature at all most matches in that area. If he could just add that trick to his bag he'll balance the backrow a bit.

I think Kolisi should stop trying to do the work for others like Whiteley, who is the biggest breakdown inspector in the game (even worse than Pierre Spies).

With Notshe at 8 we might see a bit more of Kolisi in the breakdowns. But Kolisi has been our biggest carrier in metres gained in the tournament so I think he should keep on trying to eek out metres where he can.
 

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I think Kolisi should stop trying to do the work for others like Whiteley, who is the biggest breakdown inspector in the game (even worse than Pierre Spies).

With Notshe at 8 we might see a bit more of Kolisi in the breakdowns. But Kolisi has been our biggest carrier in metres gained in the tournament so I think he should keep on trying to eek out metres where he can.

Bit of both really. I think the Boks forwards are being trained to not necessarily commit much efforts to poaching. It is still a specialist skill and quite clearly only a few players in SA for that matter are able to master it. At the same time, ANY player is actually able to go for it if its on, including the backs.

Could pick up the flattery in Jake White's column he posted after the ABs game. The Boks committed more players to tackling support than competing for the ball on the ground and this enhanced that defensive game, which to a large extent is how he tailored his World Cup winning team. Only for that same team to fall short in the next World Cup against we know who because of we know what? (sips tea o_O)

The approach to beating every team is different and given the Boks overall forward dominance against this current Wallabies team in the last 5 games, the Boks are expected to win this time.
 

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^^^^
Games tend to go in cycles and tactics that were once effective become ineffective, laws change etc.

I think the pure pilferer is on the way out.

Also, i don't think pilferers cancel each other out. It's not like George Smith was nullified by McCaw or vice versa, it's about how effective your whole team is at securing offensive rucks.

I wish they'd phase out rolling mauls. A properly set rolling maul can't be defended and half the tries in any match tend to be from rolling mauls these days.
 
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