#ABsToSamoa- Campbell LIVE

[Sam Owen]

Hi didn't though. He said our comparatively generous welfare policies are more attractive to potential migrants than Australia's harsher policies.. that's just a fact. He never said "All PIs are dole bludgers" which is what you seem to have read.

You probably didnt see the post underneath by William which I think shows what he thinks of us. William says that to an Islander, William gets hurtIMO. Do I say stupid things like that about other races? NO. I should probably put that post underneath as my signature.

I think the word 'move' was suppose to be in between the words New Zealand and because. Refferring to moving to Austrailia for those reasons.

Those Pacific Islanders who do not prefer to stay in New Zealand because of established community links and a more generous welfare system.

Samoa benefits so much more from NZ than any other country like I said in the other thread. If all NZ born players of Samoan descent weren't allowed to play for Samoa then their national team would be a lot worse so that argument goes both ways Sam.

Yeah I guess it does. Point taken.

 

[Sam Owen]

Only thing I have to say is, if other nations are happy to tour the Islands, then why not NZ? Scotland had a tour in 2012 that took them to Fiji and Samoa and Wales are sending one come 2017. Admittedly its likely that will be a development tour (that we'll probably lose...) as its also a Lions year, but you'd think NZ could go there if other Tier 1 Nations are! This does not apply solely to the AB's, or even the Pacific Islands - The 6N and TRC really and truly should be helping the growth of the world game by actually going out to the PI's, Georgia, Romania and North America more often.
Even just bringing them over to play would be a good start, and would break up the bloody monotony of playing the TRC teams + 1 PI nation every single Autumn! I think this Autumn I'd much rather see Wales vs a full strength Georgian side (a team Wales have NEVER played) than watch Wales vs Australia AGAIN, a fixture that come the end of the RWC2015 will have been played an astonishing 9 times in 4 years (not counting potential knock out fixtures)...
In summary, the concept is correct, reasoning of a lot of people here probably not so much. NZRFU, WRU, RFU and all the others are in it to make money for the most part, so as the multitude of Wales vs Aus fixtures show, they aren't all that willing to give up their "money fixtures" to play fixtures in less lucrative places just yet.

I totally agree, finally, someone. All we want is to host the All Blacks and for them to play in the Islands.

 

[nzlizard]

Back to the Folau thing. I seriously do think the Wallies will be a force in years to come. I think they're bound to have a major Rugby superstar of P.I decent come through and Folau is just the 1st of many to come. Digby Ioane, while good, I dont see as a great, there will be like a real standout force along the likes of Folau. No it wont happen due a massive caused by the ABs not playing in the Islands. However I just think, with all the P.Is they have over there, especially the Tongans, they're bound to have their own Lomu soon.

I really hope Aussie rugby gets to that level, them playing rugby on par with us is great for us and the game in general.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

My very last post on this matter

https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/23970318/labour-mp-offers-to-help-send-abs-to-samoa/

lies!

 

[FlukeArtist]

I totally agree, finally, someone. All we want is to host the All Blacks and for them to play in the Islands.

I agree it would be great, but at the end of the day, the NZRFU's only mandate is to look after the best interests of NZ Rugby.
A trip to the Islands would be great, but it would eat into NZ money.
Money that NZ needs to pay our players in order to KEEP them playing in NZ (and not at a club in France/UK/Japan)

And the venom that is coming from some quarters (ie: Fuimano-Sapolu) accusing NZ of all sorts of corrupt and greedy practices really pi55es me off.

Fuimano-Sapolu is a perfect example of how education does NOT necessarily equate to Intelligence.
The guy is the worst kind of whinger. He would not be out of place working in NZ politics with John Minto.

Sick to death of everyone having a dig at NZ.

If these people are THAT concerned about countries not touring Samoa, have ANY OF YOU taken these issues up with the IRB?
They are the governing body of the game. They are the ones that should hear about it.

Remember this: the NZRFU does not owe Samoan Rugby ANYTHING.
If you think it does; I would love to hear what you think it is that NZ owes.

 

[FlukeArtist]

I agree with you. Its not good at all. We shouldnt say the All Blacks but the NZRFU. Im sure most of the All Blacks would love the oppertunity to go to the Islands considering a lot of them are Islanders and those who arent love to holiday there (e.g. Guildford in Rarotonga).

NZRFU need to get off their high horse. The All Blacks back in the day when they were great (amateur days) were never really about the money despite their reasons for playing the apartied Springboks which is quite the contrary that caused all that controversy and protest.

The All Blacks dont owe the Islands anything but you imagine ALL of the Island greats for the ABs in the past and present, you imagine all of them playing for the Wallabies, the All Blacks would be average IMO. The Wallabies wouldve at least played a game in the Islands to show appreciation. Jonah, Bunce, Jones in a Wallabies jumper..its goodnight All Blacks!

I've got to say Sam, this post really really annoys me.

Not only have you straight out said the ABs would be average if it weren't for polys, so basically saying all "white" and Maori players that have played for the ABs are average.
Even if you are inferring that the current team would be average, that is flat out insulting and borderline racism.

Look at the possible team for the test: Woodcock, Mealamu (you can only claim 1/2 Samoan there BTW), Franks, Retallick, Whitelock, Messam, McCaw, Kaino, Smith, Cruden/Barrett, Savea, Nonu, Smith, Jane, Dagg.
Take out Kaino, Nonu, and Savea and replace them with Kieran Read, Crotty and Ben Smith.

Doesn't look average to me mate.

 

[Sam Owen]

Flukey everythings already been answered. I cant be stuffed repeating myself. You came too late lol.

And you have read ALL the posts to understand and try reading it without any "NZ is always right and never ever wrong" glasses.

 

[Blackdevil]

We shouldnt say the All Blacks but the NZRFU.

You have right but william made some points, if you're so proud to be samoan, fijian or tongian, you should play for your country. I can't how you can be so proud and play for an another country? what does it make you? a mercenary. Now we see players from Pacific islands plays for european countries & refuse to play for their homeland, i don't understand that. The former coach of Fji, Inok Male says "lack of patriotism" when Nakaitaci & Vakatawa refuses to play for fiji.

The Wallabies wouldve at least played a game in the Islands to show appreciation. Jonah, Bunce, Jones in a Wallabies jumper..its goodnight All Blacks!

there are a lots of players from the Pacific Islands in the wallabies now, more than i ever see

 

[FlukeArtist]

Flukey everythings already been answered. I cant be stuffed repeating myself. You came too late lol.

And you have read ALL the posts to understand and try reading it without any "NZ is always right and never ever wrong" glasses.

Yeah, I've read all the other posts Sam.

Just for clarity: You're sticking by your statement that the ABs would just be average without Islanders? That all those other players I listed above are average?

 

[FlukeArtist]

.

 

[FlukeArtist]

To say the ABs would be average at best without the Islander players is pretty fair and is only racist if you go and stamp it a racist remark(1). Now nick you've been on here long enough to know that the rest of the worlds TRF posters say "the ABs are only good cos they poach P.I players", this is a clear indication that the world sees the Island players as the ABs big advantage and noticeble advantage. You take that away, you take anyones biggest advantage away(2) and its a big loss.

Lomu and other Islanders wouldve carved up against the All Blacks had their parents went elsewhere instead of choosing NZ. I base that on what he did to all NZ teams when he was playing provincial and Super. Lomus just an example of so many other Islanders (whose parents chose NZ) who had ripped up or smashed fellow Kiwis in the national games.

If I did poll on which is worse..

• Me saying that the ABs would be average at best without the Islanders ever playing for them

or

• William insinuating us Islanders are just beneficiaries.

Which of those..(3)

Lets not get away from the main arguement though. As I've stated before. We are having to beg NZ to play in our country. That is why Im on this thread. That is my arguement.

(1) No, that's not how it works Sam. If you make a racist remark like you did, people call it for what it is. It's not a matter of people labelling it so because they feel like it. You ostensibly said: PI players are the only difference between the ABs and the rest of the world, and without the PI players the ABs would be "average at best" therefore insinuating the PI players are the best thing the ABs have going for them. And "average at best" by IRB rankings would place them in what region? maybe 5-10 on the rankings table?
I think that is complete bull5hit Sam. there is absolutely no grounding for that statement. Look at my post above and that team I listed. No polys- still an awesome team.

(2) Since when was any one race the AB's biggest advantage?? Correct me if i'm wrong Sam, but the biggest "advantages" (read:best players) the ABs have had for the past decade have been McCaw, Carter and Read. Now, i'm not positive, but I believe 2 are from from the South Island and one from Pukekohe and none of them have any PI heritage.

(3) Why are you even trying to compare the two issues? What does that matter? That's just trying to deflect attention from remarks you have made.

 

[Sam Owen]

You want some tissues Flukey? Chill pill? Anger management number? Lol

You sound angry, please don't get angry over people's opinions lol.

Should I say the opposite then? Will that make you happy? Lol

Yeah I'm a racist! Oh wow! Yeah woohoo! I've been on TRF for 4 years and I've been racist throughout towards the All Blacks. Yeah racism is the best. Yeah...

 

[FlukeArtist]

You want some tissues Flukey? Chill pill? Anger management number? Lol

You sound angry, please don't get angry over people's opinions lol.

Should I say the opposite then? Will that make you happy?

lol

Yeah sorry, I don't often get angry about opinions... unless they are racist ones, then that does get me angry Sam. Why? Is being racist funny to you chief?

Just man up and answer the question: Do you stand by your inference that the PI players are better than all the other ABs?

 

[fale009]

NZ born Samoans play for the All Blacks over Samoa because the AB's are the pinnacle. Probably the highest international honour. Playing for the greatest rugby nation in history is the goal of just about every Samoan who grows up in NZ. Does that mean they're not proud Samoans? ABSOLUTELY NOT! In fact, I guarantee that if you ask All Blacks like Jerome Kaino, Kevan Mealamu and other Samoan All Black what they are, they will tell you they're Samoan. I don't expect you non-Samoans to understand this.

 

[Sam Owen]

NZ born Samoans play for the All Blacks over Samoa because the AB's are the pinnacle. Probably the highest international honour. Playing for the greatest rugby nation in history is the goal of just about every Samoan who grows up in NZ. Does that mean they're not proud Samoans? ABSOLUTELY NOT! In fact, I guarantee that if you ask All Blacks like Jerome Kaino, Kevan Mealamu and other Samoan All Black what they are, they will tell you they're Samoan. I don't expect you non-Samoans to understand this.

Thank you. Obviously you're a hamo. Its good to get a fellow Samoan perspective on things.

 

[FlukeArtist]

NZ born Samoans play for the All Blacks over Samoa because the AB's are the pinnacle. Probably the highest international honour. Playing for the greatest rugby nation in history is the goal of just about every Samoan who grows up in NZ. Does that mean they're not proud Samoans? ABSOLUTELY NOT! In fact, I guarantee that if you ask All Blacks like Jerome Kaino, Kevan Mealamu and other Samoan All Black what they are, they will tell you they're Samoan. I don't expect you non-Samoans to understand this.

I don't have a problem with this.
If that's what they want to be; more power to them.
But if you choose Samoa; don't sit there with your hand out to NZ to provide for you.
NZ gives opportunities to Samoa that are over and above what any other country does for any other.

Then to sit there with your hand out saying "come to the islands regardless of whether it costs you a million dollars" just flat out sucks.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Thank you. Obviously you're a hamo. Its good to get a fellow Samoan perspective on things.

The one important difference is that Fale009 doesn't seem to share your bigotry.