Antisocial, societal issues thread

[Welsh Exile]

Not sure it would sit well with people and the Goverment legally giving the Taliban money for smack.

Are you creating more or less addicts with legalisation. Not sure that creating more addicts that then pay into the system for treating more addicts is good for the NHS.

I don't know the answer, I'm just wary of having to create more solutions for problems we created. Better the devil you know kind of thing

I'm sure it wouldn't sit well with some people but most wouldn't give a ****. We do business with a whole load of different, despicable regimes. Also, I'd imagine you'd see other avenues other than Afghanistan open up once it was legalised.

I actually think addicts wouldn't increase with the right measures brought in and would probably stay the same as we've seen, on the whole, in Netherlands and Portugal.

It's like if we banned alcohol tomorrow and then legalised it 5 years later. You'd still have people drinking in the 5 years it was banned and I don't think you'd have a massive increase in drinkers once it was legalised again.

I can totally understand your position but the devil we know has shown to not work. The war on drugs is a compete farce. Prohibition has always shown not to work so there's lots of data to go on. You could be right in that it could get worse but I seriously doubt it and what's the worst that could happen, it gets worse and then ban it again. I say give it a try, just like Gatland giving Beard a shot for the lions.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm sure it wouldn't sit well with some people but most wouldn't give a ****. We do business with a whole load of different, despicable regimes. Also, I'd imagine you'd see other avenues other than Afghanistan open up once it was legalised.

I actually think addicts wouldn't increase with the right measures brought in and would probably stay the same as we've seen, on the whole, in Netherlands and Portugal.

It's like if we banned alcohol tomorrow and then legalised it 5 years later. You'd still have people drinking in the 5 years it was banned and I don't think you'd have a massive increase in drinkers once it was legalised again.

I can totally understand your position but the devil we know has shown to not work. The war on drugs is a compete farce. Prohibition has always shown not to work so there's lots of data to go on. You could be right in that it could get worse but I seriously doubt it and what's the worst that could happen, it gets worse and then ban it again. I say give it a try, just like Gatland giving Beard a shot for the lions.

Giving beard a shot of what?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Giving beard a shot of what?

Fentanyl.

 

[dirty harry]

I'm sure it wouldn't sit well with some people but most wouldn't give a ****. We do business with a whole load of different, despicable regimes. Also, I'd imagine you'd see other avenues other than Afghanistan open up once it was legalised.

I actually think addicts wouldn't increase with the right measures brought in and would probably stay the same as we've seen, on the whole, in Netherlands and Portugal.

It's like if we banned alcohol tomorrow and then legalised it 5 years later. You'd still have people drinking in the 5 years it was banned and I don't think you'd have a massive increase in drinkers once it was legalised again.

I can totally understand your position but the devil we know has shown to not work. The war on drugs is a compete farce. Prohibition has always shown not to work so there's lots of data to go on. You could be right in that it could get worse but I seriously doubt it and what's the worst that could happen, it gets worse and then ban it again. I say give it a try, just like Gatland giving Beard a shot for the lions.

Legalisation is a dangerous act, it opens up initial usage to the entire country, and too many drugs are too addictive not to create problems on a wide scale.

Decriminalisation is a far better avenue, targeting the dealers and crimes over the user and sees them as victims and not perpetrators.

 

[Ddanno]

Yeah that's worked brilliantly for the last 40 years.

 

[Saintjay]

The people in deprived areas will be happy they can buy all the ketamine, crack, and heroin till there hearts content.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Legalisation is a dangerous act, it opens up initial usage to the entire country, and too many drugs are too addictive not to create problems on a wide scale.

Decriminalisation is a far better avenue, targeting the dealers and crimes over the user and sees them as victims and not perpetrators.

If crack was legalised tonight would you wake up in the morning and go get some to try it out?

 

[dirty harry]

If crack was legalised tonight would you wake up in the morning and go get some to try it out?

No.

But cocaine use would go up 10 fold within minutes. There would literally be countdowns lol.

Just look at Vapes as a recent example, illegal under 18, but marketed and targeting to 14 - 16 year olds, why would other drugs not follow suit?

 

[Welsh Exile]

No.

But cocaine use would go up 10 fold within minutes. There would literally be countdowns lol.

Just look at Vapes as a recent example, illegal under 18, but marketed and targeting to 14 - 16 year olds, why would other drugs not follow suit?

I mean, cocaine use going up 10 fold is a bit silly but I get your point. To be honest, cocaine use is so rife I don't know if it can go up 10 fold, especially not in Westminster.

I dunno, maybe you're right, I just think if you're a 16 year old who really wants to do coke you're going to do it anyway so might as well make sure it's not laced with something dodgy.

Goes without saying that you legally wouldn't make legal for people under 18 (or even 21) but I know that wasn't your point.

 

[dirty harry]

I mean, cocaine use going up 10 fold is a bit silly but I get your point. To be honest, cocaine use is so rife I don't know if it can go up 10 fold, especially not in Westminster.

I dunno, maybe you're right, I just think if you're a 16 year old who really wants to do coke you're going to do it anyway so might as well make sure it's not laced with something dodgy.

Goes without saying that you legally wouldn't make legal for people under 18 (or even 21) but I know that wasn't your point.

So i was having a discussion the other day with a head of service at a LA. We were pontificating the ramifications of mandatory drug testing in ALL public services, social services, emergency services, courtroom etc...it would be absolute carnage. Between us we have seen judges, lawyers, police officers, and some super senior people all enjoy a bit of blow in recent years.

I've personally seen an uptake in class A's in residential care homes, let alone young people services. 12 year olds vaping daily. Access to class A drugs is still difficult for children, but increasing. I dread to think what would happen when the types of scumbags who currently run Vape shops, mobile phone repair shops, or old school corner shops could do if they were to be able to stock some really nasty stuff.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The issue is less the legality or access to drugs and more about a society and culture in which people want or feel the need to use them. As has often been stated, if alcohol or tobacco were discovered recently, they'd have probably been banned. As with most problems linked to cultural issues, there is no simple answer or easy fix.

If the aim is to reduce drug usage and to make it safer when it is used, legalisation can help with the latter but will more likely make the former worse. I think when you look at the reduction in drinking and smoking in society in general, a trend can be reversed and a society can move away from it. It's all about changing perception.

With the people who turn to hard drugs, I think once they've got to that stage, you've already lost. The key is preventing them from wanting to go that way at all, and I think that comes from giving people a sense of self worth and also instilling a sense of responsibility. How that is achieved is much harder to answer and likely different for everyone.

 

[Yulia]

The key is preventing them from wanting to go that way at all, and I think that comes from giving people a sense of self worth and also instilling a sense of responsibility. How that is achieved is much harder to answer and likely different for everyone.

And it's much easier to legalize it instead of doing something truly helpful (like changing society's culture and mentality)

 

[Welsh Exile]

I will settle for decriminalisation as a compromise as long as they allow an Olympics where you can take whatever drugs you want.

 

[dirty harry]

The issue is less the legality or access to drugs and more about a society and culture in which people want or feel the need to use them. As has often been stated, if alcohol or tobacco were discovered recently, they'd have probably been banned. As with most problems linked to cultural issues, there is no simple answer or easy fix.

If the aim is to reduce drug usage and to make it safer when it is used, legalisation can help with the latter but will more likely make the former worse. I think when you look at the reduction in drinking and smoking in society in general, a trend can be reversed and a society can move away from it. It's all about changing perception.

With the people who turn to hard drugs, I think once they've got to that stage, you've already lost. The key is preventing them from wanting to go that way at all, and I think that comes from giving people a sense of self worth and also instilling a sense of responsibility. How that is achieved is much harder to answer and likely different for everyone.

I think what your referring to is fulfillment. There are studies surrounding choice when it comes to drugs, Rat Park being one.

What Does “Rat Park” Teach Us About Addiction?

How many of us, during clinical encounters with patients, focus on their families, their social communities, their sources of human contact and support?

www.psychiatrictimes.com

There are also a lot of studies surrounding purpose, and addiction.

 

[dirty harry]

I will settle for decriminalisation as a compromise as long as they allow an Olympics where you can take whatever drugs you want.

Now this is would jump on board, allow everyone to enhance themselves however they see fit, and let the hearts pop where they may.

Sports is entertainment, I want to see the wild and whacky.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Gregg Wallace: TV presenter warned not to 'say women made it up'

The comments come after 50 more people make fresh claims about the TV presenter.

www.bbc.co.uk

Never rated the bloke anyway.

 

[dirty harry]

No More Tea Bags | Liquid Instant Tea

nomoreteabags.com

Right, forget about Isreal, Russia, BLM, terrorists killing our children, immigration or far right extremism...

This is truly sick! This is what we need to unify against, this is an abomination against humanity like no other we have ever seen in man's history!!!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

No More Tea Bags | Liquid Instant Tea

nomoreteabags.com

Right, forget about Isreal, Russia, BLM, terrorists killing our children, immigration or far right extremism...

This is truly sick! This is what we need to unify against, this is an abomination against humanity like no other we have ever seen in man's history!!!!

Up there with cheese in a tube or bread in a can

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Gregg Wallace faces backlash over autism defence

The TV presenter was criticised after he appeared to link claims of misconduct to his autism diagnosis.

www.bbc.co.uk

The guy is despicable!

 

[dirty harry]

Anyone following the Velvet Sundown stories?