Argentinian Rugby

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Sounds questionable at the very least....
Whitelock, Retallick, Etzebeth, Mostert, are all better atm.

 

[Horacito]

Yeah I've seen it. I also think Retallick and Whitelock are better now. He is already a more complete player than Etzebeth.

I am surprised Agustin Creevy isn't there and I don't agree with Marx as a better option.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Disagree.
Petti is a v good offensive forward (tries, defenders beaten, offloads, etc) but his defensive traits are pretty bad. He misses about 20% of the tackles he attempts. Hardly a complete player. Etzebeth doesnt have the carries, tries and offloads but tackles more, misses less tackles and if i remember correctly is better at turnovers, too. I dont have the figures at hand but id say the stormers line out is better than jaguares' and i'd argue eztebeth is kinda essential for that.
I guess it depends on what you are looking for, but if i had to chose i d pick etzebeth 9 times out of 10.

 

[petite]

agreed cruz if i was a coach i would always choose etzebeth over petti! its ok with the stats but there´s other stuff also like kg for the scrum, cm for the line out. pushing at the maul rucks etc. in fact petti is more like a 3erd rower so are his stats. i would place him as n8 if i was his coach. both attitude and fisical form match more for the 3rd rower than lock. unfortunately we lack of good locks so we end up with ortega desios and pettis there. we should stik to allemano and lavanini as starters. some future in larrague. kramer is 3rd too..

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Agree with the non-stat thingie, lets call it intangibles, but i wanted to show at least some to back up my argument.

 

[petite]

is it a turnover when you grab the ballcarrier and hold him there until the ref calls scrum for your team?
little eby is good at doing that!

 

[FNS]

For me he lacks the KG vs other of the same type. At one poit he was playing at 108kg....Alemano was was 115 and lavanini 125. Big diff. thats why Lavannini can stop any player at the line while petti cant. Although he`s very agile.

ps. Ortega desio should play 6 or 7 but we got that covered sadly.

 

[Horacito]

http://www.testrugby.com/Guido-Petti-Pagadizabal/6389-3AA6FA3A-2231-40AD-94BC-10E6A1721B50/
http://www.testrugby.com/Eben-Etzebeth/6389-21A6E71C-E9AC-47F2-9F78-24CA8D934B30/

There are the stats. Not so much of a difference, though it's lacking 2017 stats.
Also intangibles should be the many things Guido can bring to the attack.

Great players both or 'em, but I think Petti is already better than him. Another thing would be Retallick/ Sam Whitelock, who are superior I think in alost every aspect.

Cheers

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Just checked the stats from here

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/stats/players

As i speculated, Petti is better offensively, Etzebeth is better defensively.

The only thing i don't understand is what you mean by intangibles that Petti brings on attack. Like what?

is it a turnover when you grab the ballcarrier and hold him there until the ref calls scrum for your team?

Among other things. If i recall correctly the definition of turnover is when a team loses possession in a ruck or maul (lines do not count, that's a different stat).

 

[FNS]

I prefer a defensive lock. We have plenty offensive in our 3er row but we lack stopping power for the other team big guys.

 

[Horacito]

hellooo

Yeah I checked the stats and of yours and it says that tackle efficiency is 85% to 77% for Etzebeth. So yeah, I guess he is better at defense than Petti. Of course, playing in a different rugby style and a completely different team, I would say even opposed dynamic. But this is not a deference to go and say he's better because he is a better defender.

Ans then we go to the attack: same amount of lines won of our own and same amount of wins over rivals, busted tackles, tries, points and so on... in a team based on the attack, with a third line like that, with Lezana Matera Senatore/ Legui... come on, the kid's a beast. He's a frikin beast and a future star, we have a Retallick on us in a couple of years if we somehow don't manage to screw him in every way. He is already a more complete player than Etezebeth and he is better if you ask me, it's simply that Eztebeth is more defensive and has a different presence. I understand if you guys like him better though.

Cheers

 

[petite]

hellooo

Yeah I checked the stats and of yours and it says that tackle efficiency is 85% to 77% for Etzebeth. So yeah, I guess he is better at defense than Petti. Of course, playing in a different rugby style and a completely different team, I would say even opposed dynamic. But this is not a deference to go and say he's better because he is a better defender.

Ans then we go to the attack: same amount of lines won of our own and same amount of wins over rivals, busted tackles, tries, points and so on... in a team based on the attack, with a third line like that, with Lezana Matera Senatore/ Legui... come on, the kid's a beast. He's a frikin beast and a future star, we have a Retallick on us in a couple of years if we somehow don't manage to screw him in every way. He is already a more complete player than Etezebeth and he is better if you ask me, it's simply that Eztebeth is more defensive and has a different presence. I understand if you guys like him better though.

Cheers

horacito! i dint say he´s a bad player he´s actually very good. what i mentioned is that hes profile in my opinion fits more to a 3rd rower. (sure we have plenty of thierd rowers) i do agree he can add stuff to the attack, i think hes a good choice when we are facing fast teams with lighter packs but when in the othrer team you have lood de jagger and eben, 207 and 205 125 k players then guido is just not big enough. you loose the scrum you lack power to properly clean the rucks and of course defence. the stats wont show how many times your tacke goes foreward and makes your adversay go backwards or when you tacke but the opponent still gains a few meters. thats the power we once had with albacete and still have in lavanini. guido is good and specilally good to be able to complete against bigger players in that position but hes giving a huge advantage. we are now suffering specially in los pumas of a very soft front 5 if you compare with (rorro, ledesma, scelzo, alvarez kairelis and albacete)
finally he´ll never be retallick (204 mts 120 k) never mind the stats in a match up guido (194 mts 108 k) looses. if you compare to kieran read 1,93 m (6 ft 4 in) 110 kg (242 lb) it looks better

 

[FNS]

With rorro, ledesma, scelzo we would win at least 3/4 more matches. We need a time machine.

ps: Key word is stopping power. We lack it overall w/out Lavanini and Isa.

 

[Horacito]

Hey guys,

Petite my friend, I agree with your opinion 100%, but I still take him over Etzbeth due to his game being more suited for what we are trying. Also, on a side note, Lavanini gets us too many penalties, way too many penalties.

I have to say that I am quite concerned that, within the last ten years we have forgotten our traditionally strong first 5. I think we focused too much on other positions, thinking we are a fabric of talented first rowers and we don't need to care for them as much.

Anyway, I was thinking Guido could be our retallck thinking about his function in ABs/ Chiefs; a link between forwards/ backs with more power than most and great offloading skills.

We need a new defense couch as well lol

 

[petite]

Just want to add that lavaninni is a dumm ass. but he is also young. he certenly has issues with dicipline but he does have the size and power of an international lock
i can asume that with time and training he can get better in every aspect. in the other hand petti wont be growing the additional 10 cm and 15 k needed for the tasck.
going back to the petti vs etzebeth match up i would like to have them both in the team and then judge when their individual profile would fit better according to the scenario.
if i have to choose one ill go with eben just because i´m conservative. (when it comes to rugby)

 

[FNS]

At what time arg is the match on Saturday?

 

[petite]

At what time arg is the match on Saturday?

12 del medio día pero not sure

 

[Horacito]

good question my man

Sábado

6.50 Australia-Nueva Zelanda (en vivo, Rugby Championship, ESPN 2)

11.30 Sudáfrica-Argentina (en vivo, Rugby Championship, ESPN 2)

13.40 La Plata-Atlético del Rosario (en vivo, URBA, ESPN Extra)

15.25 Belgrano-CUBA (en vivo, URBA, ESPN Extra)

19.15 Belgrano-CUBA (en diferido, URBA, ESPN 2)

23.00 Scrum URBA (en vivo, ESPN 3)

Domingo

20.30 Scrum (en vivo, ESPN 2)

Ese Belgrano CUBA tiene una pinta buenísima

cheers

 

[FNS]

Guys in "la nacion" now they are charging to read the news =(. Only site that talked rugby. Anyone has that shitty cards you can read them and copy here maybe =)

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I think you can still read most of the news, you just need to register and log in. For lanacion black you need to pay.
Just tried and i can read the rugby articles i've tried, this one for example

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2055077-...-tenemos-que-mejorar-el-scrum-y-la-disciplina