Boks Vs Blacks

[Boggle]

I thought that he was just putting on some bulk.
still has the pace obviously.

I also think people need to stop crapping all over Pienaar just because Morne kicks better, Morne is a great player, but Pienaar is probably the better all rounder, he has an amazing tactical brain and can dominate a game at 10.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jul 27 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I also think people need to stop crapping all over Pienaar just because Morne kicks better, Morne is a great player, but Pienaar is probably the better all rounder, he has an amazing tactical brain and can dominate a game at 10.[/b]

Were you watching it on a stream by anychance? Igot infuriated at everyone in the chat having a go at Pienaar for one aspect of his game being off when really I'd be blaiming the coaches for not telling F. Steyn to take over kicking duties.

After the first two weekends I'm starting to see SA as the favourites but I really can't wait for the South Africa Australia match in a Couple of weeks.

South Africa will hopefully start the same side for next-next weekend. Though I wouldn't mind seeing Kankowski, I think Spies made a step in the right direction and lifted his overall game at the weekend.

Whereas I think New Zealand are due a couple of change. Namely at halfback, and on the wing. I'd like to see Cory Jane back in for Sivivatu who doesn't seem on any sort of form at the moment. And perhaps a switch at hooker because Hore's throwing is a bit eratic and I suspect New Zealand are just not confident at lineout time.

 

[Boggle]

No just watched it on television for the most part, but you could see / hear the way the crowd reacted to Morne, and the way people tend to talk in public about our Fly half situation. It's sort of like the Peter Grant / Liefling situation a while ago, Grant was a much better player in my opinion but people hated to see him play because Hougaard was a Bull and could kick the penalties.

Morne thankfully is a much better player than Hougaard ever was, and I can see him becoming our primary 10 in the future, but Pienaar is the better player at the moment for me.

Just read that both Jean and Pienaar will be able to play next week as well, apparently Jean only had cramp

HELLS YEAH !

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jul 27 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I thought that he was just putting on some bulk.
still has the pace obviously.

I also think people need to stop crapping all over Pienaar just because Morne kicks better, Morne is a great player, but Pienaar is probably the better all rounder, he has an amazing tactical brain and can dominate a game at 10.[/b]

Personally, I know I've only really watche dhte Lions series and the first TN game, but I honestly can't see what he adds and why the Boks keep picking him as more than a banch warmer.


The 'Other' Morne (The one who plays a fullback) should be dropped, though, as every time he gets the ball he seems to go for the long drop goal. And missing the long drop goal. Surely he'd of learnt by now?

 

[Incredible Schalk]

Im so dissapointed in Sivivatu in the international season so far, i rate his as one of the most skillful players in the world but he does seem very lazy. Makes me cringe when he kicks, that is NOT the strenght of his game, nor is crash ball, its one on one against a defender when he can use that brilliant step or offload. However even though off form hes much better than Jane who is very slow to be played on the wing. Does anyone think it would be worth more Sivi into the centres, with his array of ball skills he would be brilliant at opening up defenses, a bit like what they did with Umaga.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 28 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

... no where does it mention that SA refs are cheats as you are claiming.[/b]

Obviously you are unable to draw a simple conclusion, from data that is staring you in the face.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Jul 27 2009, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 28 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... no where does it mention that SA refs are cheats as you are claiming.[/b]

Obviously you are unable to draw a simple conclusion, from data that is staring you in the face.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, seriously bored of this arguement. And most stats can be read to mean abnout 10 different things, many of them opposing so so long as everyone is standing their ground there's no point in this arguement.

Can we get back to the match please!!!!

Anyway, was just watching some extended highlights and I'm thinking that Isaac Ross could totally be the solution to New Zealand's problems at outhalf. Massive boot on him, he's quick and he's not gonna be easy to get through!!!!

Nonu again looked very dull at first centre. If you're not going to give McAllistar a game at 10 then I'd like to seem him at 12 where I actually think he plays better.

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Jul 28 2009, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 28 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... no where does it mention that SA refs are cheats as you are claiming.[/b]

Obviously you are unable to draw a simple conclusion, from data that is staring you in the face.
[/b][/quote]

Thats just a stupid thing to say. You just assume that the relative rugby ability of the two sides has been the same for the last 90 years. It hasn't. Those statistics dont take into account that SA was walloping NZ in every single test series in SA and NZ right up to 56. Clearly, they were on average the better team over that period. I know we had some shocking referees before professionalism but you can not possibly say that the NZ ref's were never as bad.
Also, those stats don't take into account NZ's better adaption to the professional game and SA's slow uptake following 20 years of rugby isolation! Remember, we didn't get to play much rugby from about the 70's onward-our international game clearly suffered. How do you develop great players when you only get a handful of tests in 20 years? Thats not even to mention the nearly half million SAfricans who have left SA's shores since 1994 (these people, being mostly of caucasian descent and therefore more likely associated with rugby)!

These are very good reasons why NZ has been so dominant over SA in the post-1995 era, and deservedly so.
There's a saying I've heard that refers to the pre professional era, said partly tongue in cheek that goes something like: "When we play over there, you win, when you play over here, we win".

Anyway, I really enjoyed the match and can't wait for next week in Durban!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Jul 28 2009, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 28 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... no where does it mention that SA refs are cheats as you are claiming.[/b]

Obviously you are unable to draw a simple conclusion, from data that is staring you in the face.
[/b][/quote]


thanks for your breakdown tips after last game, it's so much clearer now and i'm not as frustrated as i used to be because of that fact.

 

[Ripper]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jul 28 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Im so dissapointed in Sivivatu in the international season so far, i rate his as one of the most skillful players in the world but he does seem very lazy. Makes me cringe when he kicks, that is NOT the strenght of his game, nor is crash ball, its one on one against a defender when he can use that brilliant step or offload. However even though off form hes much better than Jane who is very slow to be played on the wing. Does anyone think it would be worth more Sivi into the centres, with his array of ball skills he would be brilliant at opening up defenses, a bit like what they did with Umaga.[/b]

No, just no.

Seriously?

No.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Jul 27 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The 'Other' Morne (The one who plays a fullback) should be dropped, though, as every time he gets the ball he seems to go for the long drop goal. And missing the long drop goal. Surely he'd of learnt by now?[/b]

He had one attempt on the weekend. Also, don't underestimate his counter attack. I love it when he attempts long range drop goals. It's free points if he gets it, and if he misses, the ball is right down the opposition territory anyway.

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jul 28 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Im so dissapointed in Sivivatu in the international season so far, i rate his as one of the most skillful players in the world but he does seem very lazy. Makes me cringe when he kicks, that is NOT the strenght of his game, nor is crash ball, its one on one against a defender when he can use that brilliant step or offload. However even though off form hes much better than Jane who is very slow to be played on the wing. Does anyone think it would be worth more Sivi into the centres, with his array of ball skills he would be brilliant at opening up defenses, a bit like what they did with Umaga.[/b]

Ridiculous. Sivivatu is not a centre, has never been a centre and will never been a centre. Over our history we have played all sorts of random people at centre, namely Christian Cullen and Leon McDonald. They haven't worked. Hopefully we have learnt something from those experiments and don't just go and do something that doesn't work. Besides, international rugby is NOT the place to be experimenting. Also, Conrad Smith played incredibly on the weekend. Smith can not play anywhere else so why should he be dropped on the off chance the Sivivatu could possibly make a half decent centre when Smith is already playing so well? I agree that Sivivatu has been lacking a bit of spark. He'll come right though. Too many fans are reactionary and don't understand the idea of sticking with a player through the bad times.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Jul 28 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ridiculous. Sivivatu is not a centre, has never been a centre and will never been a centre. Over our history we have played all sorts of random people at centre, namely Christian Cullen and Leon McDonald. They haven't worked. Hopefully we have learnt something from those experiments and don't just go and do something that doesn't work. Besides, international rugby is NOT the place to be experimenting. Also, Conrad Smith played incredibly on the weekend. Smith can not play anywhere else so why should he be dropped on the off chance the Sivivatu could possibly make a half decent centre when Smith is already playing so well? I agree that Sivivatu has been lacking a bit of spark. He'll come right though. Too many fans are reactionary and don't understand the idea of sticking with a player through the bad times.[/b]

I agree.

The idea of playing Sivivatu at Centre is just about one of the stupidest things I have heard. For starters, a Centre needs to be able to pass accurately in both directions; there is very good reason why Sivivatu usually plays on the left wing.... there is unlikely to be anyone further to his left to pass the ball to. Rokocoko sometimes swaps over on to the left, but in Sivivatu's 36 tests he has only played right wing twice, both in 2008, v England at Christchurch, and v South Africa at Wellington. On both occasions he did that to accommodate Rudi Wulf who is also purely a left wing.

I too hope that we have learned the lesson of playing people out of position, especially at Centre. Cullen was a failure there and so was Rangi. Mils can fill in at a pinch, but why would you want to play one of the world's best fullbacks at Centre.

 

[candybum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Jul 28 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jul 28 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im so dissapointed in Sivivatu in the international season so far, i rate his as one of the most skillful players in the world but he does seem very lazy. Makes me cringe when he kicks, that is NOT the strenght of his game, nor is crash ball, its one on one against a defender when he can use that brilliant step or offload. However even though off form hes much better than Jane who is very slow to be played on the wing. Does anyone think it would be worth more Sivi into the centres, with his array of ball skills he would be brilliant at opening up defenses, a bit like what they did with Umaga.[/b]

Ridiculous. Sivivatu is not a centre, has never been a centre and will never been a centre.

[/b][/quote]

He played center for his club before joining the All Blacks this year, not that the matters.

Anyways completely agree. You can't play him center because Conrad is playing there and has been pretty good there too.

You can't go saying Sivi is lazy as he has a pretty good workrate. However i do agree sometimes he can wonder inwards too often. I can understand since there hasn't been much opportunities on the wing for him so he might wanna create some in field. But he does it too much in the game. Against SA, one hit up center field, turnover... SA spreads it to JP on sivi's unmarked wing and gone burgers..

 

[Incredible Schalk]

I dont mean yet, i mean 4 or 5 years down the line when he loses a bit of pace. Fair enough about his passing but that can easily be improved, ball in hand though and with his step he would be great at opening up defenses from the centres rather than trying to avoid the touchline.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jul 28 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I dont mean yet, i mean 4 or 5 years down the line when he loses a bit of pace. Fair enough about his passing but that can easily be improved, ball in hand though and with his step he would be great at opening up defenses from the centres rather than trying to avoid the touchline.[/b]

Look, I know what you are saying, but really, Sivivatu doesn't have skill set necessary to be an international Centre. Fullback yes (and he played a season there for Waikato and was very effective), he's good under the high ball, although his kicking skills could so with some work.

I just cannot see the need to play him out of position at Centre, when we have specialists like Smith, Kahui and McAlister, and others like Casey Laulala, Ryan Crotty, Tim Bateman, Callum Bruce and former Warriors league player Clinton Toopi waiting in the wings.