Boks Vs Blacks

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Jul 27 2009, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I don't recall either Fox or Nisbett blaming the referee for anything. In fact the NZ press have not even mentioned the referee, and his performance has not been raised by anyone in the NZ media.

You're both just making things up to support your spurious arguments.

The "16th" player assertion is not my take. Its a known fact. Gert Bezuidenhout took the bent refereeing common between Boks and All Blacks of the day to new heights, doing a job that would have had Louis Luyt clearing out a whole jewelery store in appreciation. The Bok front row got away with murder, Sid Going wasn't allowed to take a shot at goal after the ball fell over as he placed it and he denied the All Blacks a penalty try when Bruce Robertson was taken out.

Also a fact is your pre-isolation Government's insistence that we not bring Maoris and Polynesians on tours, thereby being forced to leave some of our best players behind. I suppose you'll try to deny that happened too, or more likely, you were too young to remember, and your teachers have tried to rewrite history by conveniently leaving out the truth.

Its going to be hard to rewrite history with items like this poster still about

---------------

PS: "Gramps" and proud of it, three grandchildren, and 45 years involved in Rugby as a player, referee and administrator. That gives me something that you can only get with time on the job... experience.[/b]

Race has nothing to do with it I am refering to the 16th man crap. Post us some proof of the 16th man stories that are not written in your native New Zealand. Lets be honest the All Blacks normally have a hard time accepting defeat(not that it happens post isolation alot).

As for the Gramps comment it is very clear that the conotation has to be used due to his reference of us sh*tting in our nappies etc. oviously trying to maintian some kind of higher ground due to his age.

My arguement is not on the race issue as it is clear SA has a pretty poor history in that sense. I could show you alot worse pictures during that time than the one gramps posted. What ever you claim or however you try and write it SA were better than you end of.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNAPlay @ Jul 27 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I spent some time with the All Blacks two days prior to the test, and I must admit that a nicer bunch of guys you couldn't wish to meet.

We did some light hearted interviews for tv purposes, and the guys were all up to it, with Joe Roco even sitting in the corner waiting for me, without my knowledge. When I had finished up with Brendon Leonard, Roco called from the corner and said "mate, would you like to chat to me?" I was blown away at how accomodating they were.

The first guy I chatted to was McCaw, and he was loving the interview, and when I asked him which country had the best women, he had this wry smile and replied "Mate, I'd be really lying if I said New Zealand." Speaking of woman, there was a very funny moment when I was chatting to Roco, and my girlfriend walked in (who of course, is beautiful), and Roco got completely sidestracked and just stared at her before I interjected with the "best women question" - the timing and the hilarity of it all was brilliant.


I also asked Richie who was the worst person to room with, and he said So'ialo, "because his nickname's Horse". I asked why, and he just laughed out loud, and added "just cos he's big like a horse". I kept the horse question running with all the players, and when I asked Mils about it, he chuckled and replied quietly "I thought that's suppose to be a secret."

The best bloke of the lot though was Ross Isack. He was like a big kid, and is obviously loving his time with the guys. I must admit though, while he's very tall, he's also very thin, and I found myself wondering how on earth he was going to be able to handle a brute like Bakkies.

Either way, the guys were fantastic, and when my girlfriend and I left them that evening, we both agreed that we actually wouldn't have minded a All Black win.

Kiwis - you can be very proud of your guys.[/b]

Are you Derek Alberts??? :huh:

 

[DNAPlay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNAPlay @ Jul 27 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I spent some time with the All Blacks two days prior to the test, and I must admit that a nicer bunch of guys you couldn't wish to meet.

We did some light hearted interviews for tv purposes, and the guys were all up to it, with Joe Roco even sitting in the corner waiting for me, without my knowledge. When I had finished up with Brendon Leonard, Roco called from the corner and said "mate, would you like to chat to me?" I was blown away at how accomodating they were.

The first guy I chatted to was McCaw, and he was loving the interview, and when I asked him which country had the best women, he had this wry smile and replied "Mate, I'd be really lying if I said New Zealand." Speaking of woman, there was a very funny moment when I was chatting to Roco, and my girlfriend walked in (who of course, is beautiful), and Roco got completely sidestracked and just stared at her before I interjected with the "best women question" - the timing and the hilarity of it all was brilliant.


I also asked Richie who was the worst person to room with, and he said So'ialo, "because his nickname's Horse". I asked why, and he just laughed out loud, and added "just cos he's big like a horse". I kept the horse question running with all the players, and when I asked Mils about it, he chuckled and replied quietly "I thought that's suppose to be a secret."

The best bloke of the lot though was Ross Isack. He was like a big kid, and is obviously loving his time with the guys. I must admit though, while he's very tall, he's also very thin, and I found myself wondering how on earth he was going to be able to handle a brute like Bakkies.

Either way, the guys were fantastic, and when my girlfriend and I left them that evening, we both agreed that we actually wouldn't have minded a All Black win.

Kiwis - you can be very proud of your guys.[/b]

Are you Derek Alberts??? :huh:

[/b][/quote]


haha...yes

 

[Jer1cho]

Seriously? LOL!

I saw that insert in the build up to the test. Laughed my ass off at some of those answers. But i agree fully. Looked like a really nice bunch of lads!

 

[DNAPlay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Seriously? LOL!

I saw that insert in the build up to the test. Laughed my ass off at some of those answers. But i agree fully. Looked like a really nice bunch of lads![/b]

Thanks very much J

Glad you laughed your ass off, as that was obviously the intention. McCaw is a legend on and off the field...

 

[Jer1cho]

Fully agree.

He was the one guy that stood out for me for the All Blacks. Such a ball poacher. In fact, i don't think i have ever seen him have a bad game. Otherwise, i thought the All Blacks looked a little unorganized. At times they looked dangerous when moving the ball around, but all in all, it was very scrappy from them. They dropped a lot of balls, and were going backwards on a number of occasions. Conrad Smith scored a good try, but that was helped by a woeful attempted tackle by Morne Steyn. The New Zealanders also need to find a way of countering a moving mall. They crumbled every time the Springboks got a mall going.

On the South African side, I think we did pretty well. I was a little disappointed in Juan Smith though. It seems he is having a little bit of a form slump. Pierre Spies and Heinrich Brussouw were the players of the day for me. Spies is incredibly strong, and Brussouw is a real danger for any opposition at the breakdown. Our back-line play seemed a little stagnant at times, which will need to be addressed before Durban.

The other worry is we didn't utilize our chances properly. We had an overlap on a number of occasions, but then the ball was played back to the inside, or the move was stopped thanks to some bad ball skills.

The last worry is obviously the goal kicking situation. Ruan Pienaar controlled beautifully in the first half, but missed the goals. Morne Steyn didn't do quite as well in general play, but proved again the when it matters, he can score the points.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the selections or Saturday...

 

[DNAPlay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Fully agree.

He was the one guy that stood out for me for the All Blacks. Such a ball poacher. In fact, i don't think i have ever seen him have a bad game. Otherwise, i thought the All Blacks looked a little unorganized. At times they looked dangerous when moving the ball around, but all in all, it was very scrappy from them. They dropped a lot of balls, and were going backwards on a number of occasions. Conrad Smith scored a good try, but that was helped by a woeful attempted tackle by Morne Steyn. The New Zealanders also need to find a way of countering a moving mall. They crumbled every time the Springboks got a mall going.

On the South African side, I think we did pretty well. I was a little disappointed in Juan Smith though. It seems he is having a little bit of a form slump. Pierre Spies and Heinrich Brussouw were the players of the day for me. Spies is incredibly strong, and Brussouw is a real danger for any opposition at the breakdown. Our back-line play seemed a little stagnant at times, which will need to be addressed before Durban.

The other worry is we didn't utilize our chances properly. We had an overlap on a number of occasions, but then the ball was played back to the inside, or the move was stopped thanks to some bad ball skills.

The last worry is obviously the goal kicking situation. Ruan Pienaar controlled beautifully in the first half, but missed the goals. Morne Steyn didn't do quite as well in general play, but proved again the when it matters, he can score the points.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the selections or Saturday...[/b]

Smith actually wasn't too bad in my opionion. By far and away his best test this year - although that's not saying too much given how quiet he was against the Lions. Spies is finally living up to his potential. He's getting involved in the hard stuff which was something he hardly ever did in the past, while what more can one say about Brussow? Speaking of which - I posed the question to the AB's about Brussow, and they were all in agreement that it was bizarre that he didn't start against the Lions from the very beginning - that's how highly they rated him.

I still believe that the side that played on Saturday was our best starting 15, and I think that Ruan's mobility with ball in hand far outweighs his kicking inconsistency. It's not as if the guy was a dead-eye dick in the first place. Div knew about his kicking yet persisted with him - which I think is the way to go, especially with the two Steyns around as back-up. I personally hope that Francois is being groomed under the guidance of Percy to be our first choice kicker. He's got a monster boot on him, which combined with accuracy, could be absolutely deadly. And hopefully the opportunites he gets to kick will quickly eradicate his constant need to go for drops. I'd love to see his drop kick success rate - I doubt it's even in double figures.

Great test, but as always, beware the wounded All Black.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNAPlay @ Jul 27 2009, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Smith actually wasn't too bad in my opionion. By far and away his best test this year - although that's not saying too much given how quiet he was against the Lions. Spies is finally living up to his potential. He's getting involved in the hard stuff which was something he hardly ever did in the past, while what more can one say about Brussow? Speaking of which - I posed the question to the AB's about Brussow, and they were all in agreement that it was bizarre that he didn't start against the Lions from the very beginning - that's how highly they rated him.

I still believe that the side that played on Saturday was our best starting 15, and I think that Ruan's mobility with ball in hand far outweighs his kicking inconsistency. It's not as if the guy was a dead-eye dick in the first place. Div knew about his kicking yet persisted with him - which I think is the way to go, especially with the two Steyns around as back-up. I personally hope that Francois is being groomed under the guidance of Percy to be our first choice kicker. He's got a monster boot on him, which combined with accuracy, could be absolutely deadly. And hopefully the opportunites he gets to kick will quickly eradicate his constant need to go for drops. I'd love to see his drop kick success rate - I doubt it's even in double figures.

Great test, but as always, beware the wounded All Black.[/b]

I'm going to agree with you on Pienaar. The guy has so much talent. He also has that rugby 'intelligence' that someone like Fourie du Preez has. Funny how we went from "Crisis at 10" to "spoilt for choice" in a mere matter of months...

On Francois Steyn, i have always had the same opinion. When everyone slated him, criticized him, and even condemned him, i still said he was born to play 15, and is one of the most talented players we have had in a very long time. It makes me so happy to see him finally play well week in week out! He can only get better from here. His kicking game has improved so much under the guidance of Montgomery, which is also a great positive.

It really REALLY upset me though to hear the crowd reaction to Morne Stey, with Ruan Pienaar playing a great game earlier. They showed Pienaar on the sideline and he shook his head. Some South African fans are real idiots when it comes to that sort of thing...

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNAPlay @ Jul 27 2009, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously? LOL!

I saw that insert in the build up to the test. Laughed my ass off at some of those answers. But i agree fully. Looked like a really nice bunch of lads![/b]

Thanks very much J

Glad you laughed your ass off, as that was obviously the intention. McCaw is a legend on and off the field...
[/b][/quote]

Do you have a link to this would love to see it.

 

[Boggle]

About bloody time we beat the ABs convincingly, we don't do that often enough at home, and you rarely beat the ABs with a scoreline like that.

I only got to see 60 minutes of the game before I was dragged away from the tellie to a friends party, but it was a good match for me, pity I missed the Fourie try at the end, will watch it on youtube.

I'd love to meet the ABs at some point, they always practice at my High school (Zwartkop) when they're playing near Pretoria, is that where you did the interview DNAPlay ?

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNAPlay @ Jul 27 2009, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smith actually wasn't too bad in my opionion. By far and away his best test this year - although that's not saying too much given how quiet he was against the Lions. Spies is finally living up to his potential. He's getting involved in the hard stuff which was something he hardly ever did in the past, while what more can one say about Brussow? Speaking of which - I posed the question to the AB's about Brussow, and they were all in agreement that it was bizarre that he didn't start against the Lions from the very beginning - that's how highly they rated him.

I still believe that the side that played on Saturday was our best starting 15, and I think that Ruan's mobility with ball in hand far outweighs his kicking inconsistency. It's not as if the guy was a dead-eye dick in the first place. Div knew about his kicking yet persisted with him - which I think is the way to go, especially with the two Steyns around as back-up. I personally hope that Francois is being groomed under the guidance of Percy to be our first choice kicker. He's got a monster boot on him, which combined with accuracy, could be absolutely deadly. And hopefully the opportunites he gets to kick will quickly eradicate his constant need to go for drops. I'd love to see his drop kick success rate - I doubt it's even in double figures.

Great test, but as always, beware the wounded All Black.[/b]

I'm going to agree with you on Pienaar. The guy has so much talent. He also has that rugby 'intelligence' that someone like Fourie du Preez has. Funny how we went from "Crisis at 10" to "spoilt for choice" in a mere matter of months...

On Francois Steyn, i have always had the same opinion. When everyone slated him, criticized him, and even condemned him, i still said he was born to play 15, and is one of the most talented players we have had in a very long time. It makes me so happy to see him finally play well week in week out! He can only get better from here. His kicking game has improved so much under the guidance of Montgomery, which is also a great positive.

It really REALLY upset me though to hear the crowd reaction to Morne Stey, with Ruan Pienaar playing a great game earlier. They showed Pienaar on the sideline and he shook his head. Some South African fans are real idiots when it comes to that sort of thing...
[/b][/quote]

Although not a natural 10 it is no coincidence that the Sharks went from top of the log to 5th place. He gave them all their go forward ball and penetration from the backs to get the pack on the front foot.

He is still so young and ge is still learning people seem to forget his age. In about 2-3 years he will be much much better. Only disappointment is that he will be playing in the NH.

 

[Nickdnz]

I seem to get the feeling that some people think NZ is bitter over the loss. I for one, am happy about the performance, it really showed a few people up who arn't, in my opinion, international standard players. SA definetly played the better game, which I think a Tri Nations ***le may be coming their way, but i think the All Blacks still have a few tricks up their sleves, especially with Carter maybe making a return for the last two games. Did anyone else think Condrad Smith was sort of a shining star in a failing team? Anyway, I hope we can make improvments coming into the Rugby World Cup, because that has always been NZ's failing.

I did notice Spies out run Smith, but that is to be expected. Smith's abuility dosn't seem to be his physical talent, but more to do the right thing at the right time, I am reminded a bit of Joe Stanley when I watch Smith play.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Jul 27 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I seem to get the feeling that some people think NZ is bitter over the loss. I for one, am happy about the performance, it really showed a few people up who arn't, in my opinion, international standard players. SA definetly played the better game, which I think a Tri Nations ***le may be coming their way, but i think the All Blacks still have a few tricks up their sleves, especially with Carter maybe making a return for the last two games. Did anyone else think Condrad Smith was sort of a shining star in a failing team? Anyway, I hope we can make improvments coming into the Rugby World Cup, because that has always been NZ's failing.

I did notice Spies out run Smith, but that is to be expected. Smith's abuility dosn't seem to be his physical talent, but more to do the right thing at the right time, I am reminded a bit of Joe Stanley when I watch Smith play.[/b]

I think Smith reminds me of Robbie Fleck. Smith is a brilliant player. He had a great game, even with Nonu not playing well on the day, Smith managed to perform. He was also great in defense. We couldn't make one line break against him on the night.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 27 2009, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Post us some proof of the 16th man stories that are not written in your native New Zealand.[/b]

Hard to do. The internet didn't exist pre-isolation, but I guess you knew that else you wouldn't have asked the question.

However, I can let the statistics speak for themselves;

From 1981, when "neutral" referees were used
v SA in South Africa.....P22 Won 13 - Win Ratio 59%
v SA in New Zealand....P20 Won 16 - Win ratio 80%

v Other teams Away....P109 Won 79 - Win ratio 73%
v Other teams Home....P109 Won 94 - Win ratio 86%

PRE 1981, when "home" referees were used
v South Africa Away....P20 Won 5 - Win ratio 25%
v South Africa Home....P14 Won 8 - Win Ratio 57%

v Other teams Away....P66 Won 48 - Win Ratio 73%
v Other teams Home....P67 Won 50 - Win Ratio 74%

You don't have to be Albert Einstein to see the big advantage the Boks had with their own referees, and advantage we never got with our home referees. In fact, New Zealand's home record IMPROVED when "neutral" referees came in, while South Africa's got A LOT WORSE. That is pretty damned conclusive.

 

[gingergenius]

Can anyone tell me why the Springboks have been arsing around with Jantjes and Kirchner, who really aren't all that special, when they could have picked Steyn at 15 every time? He's clearly the best option...

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Jul 28 2009, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 27 2009, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Post us some proof of the 16th man stories that are not written in your native New Zealand.[/b]

Hard to do. The internet didn't exist pre-isolation, but I guess you knew that else you wouldn't have asked the question.

However, I can let the statistics speak for themselves;

From 1981, when "neutral" referees were used
v SA in South Africa.....P22 Won 13 - Win Ratio 59%
v SA in New Zealand....P20 Won 16 - Win ratio 80%

v Other teams Away....P109 Won 79 - Win ratio 73%
v Other teams Home....P109 Won 94 - Win ratio 86%

PRE 1981, when "home" referees were used
v South Africa Away....P20 Won 5 - Win ratio 25%
v South Africa Home....P14 Won 8 - Win Ratio 57%

v Other teams Away....P66 Won 48 - Win Ratio 73%
v Other teams Home....P67 Won 50 - Win Ratio 74%

You don't have to be Albert Einstein to see the big advantage the Boks had with their own referees, and advantage we never got with our home referees. In fact, New Zealand's home record IMPROVED when "neutral" referees came in, while South Africa's got A LOT WORSE. That is pretty damned conclusive.
[/b][/quote]


No it does not. All it proves is that SA had a period of time where they were pretty strong and had the wood on other teams simple. Just cause you have some stats only proves SA were better, no where does it mention that SA refs are cheats as you are claiming. It only shows we were the better team before isolation.

Move on big guy since isolation Blacks are better no question and head to head over time they are now ahead. Don't be bitter about the weekend the Blacks won't lose to many and will be tough to beat this weekend.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jul 27 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can anyone tell me why the Springboks have been arsing around with Jantjes and Kirchner, who really aren't all that special, when they could have picked Steyn at 15 every time? He's clearly the best option...[/b]

Been asking myself that same question for 3 years now.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 27 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jul 27 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can anyone tell me why the Springboks have been arsing around with Jantjes and Kirchner, who really aren't all that special, when they could have picked Steyn at 15 every time? He's clearly the best option...[/b]

Been asking myself that same question for 3 years now.
[/b][/quote]

I'll take that load off your mind. Thank the ANC! :bravo:

 

[Steve-o]

Wow, what an intense game. I can never get enough of winning against the AB's. NEVER write off the Blacks though, they nearly came back in the last 15 minutes, they'll want to desperately bounce back next week.
That desperation might work in the Boks favour though. We have the experience to counter that. I'm glad Pienaar has not been getting slated on here like other places. To many Bulls on the internet, clearly..
Brussow = awesome as ever! McCaw in a AB jersey was the acid test and he came out tops

 

[Jer1cho]

Is it just me, or is Jacque Fourie getting a little pudgy???