Brent Impey Brands NH Nations Colonialists

[TRF_heineken]

Come on guys, everyone keeps going on about him calling out the home nations using PI talent, from what I read he doesn't have a problem with PI player plying their trade around the world

we have already, I thought at least, realised that was just leading to his point, he believes (and I have no idea how true it is) the home nations voted against PI players being able to come home to play for a second team, that's why he mentions Ireland and Wales, not because of all the players the have had

shows how poor his approach was! Everyone's too distracted / annoyed / confused by what he said I n the lead up to even notice what he was trying to get at

That might be true. But the issue is difficult to dissect without the current residency/eligibility rules in place. Is he trying to say that there must be a distinction between cultural heritage and let's say for argument's sake, the grandparent rule?

I know that this might open a can of worms and that not all instances will coincide, but the way I see it, his attempt is to make separations with regard to eligibility.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

there must be a distinction between cultural heritage

Time to dust off the family trees and see which All Blacks players ancestors got the boat from Southampton

 

[Rinkadink]

***had all this typed this morning but didn't get around to posting (and wanted to add more). Thread may have moved on but instead of going to total waste I'll throw it out there anyway now I've got the chance to hit send, apologies for the lack of flow and abrupt ending***

Well this isn't exactly the thread I'm wanting to wake up to. I'm a bit ****** off now. Heine, I'm not angry at you I'm just using your post as a springboard into the topic. Just to be clear.

if the laws were amended to allow the Pacific Islanders more freedom to return to their home island, and represent their country of birth

I think the original comments are miles off base and more or less untrue, fuelling a lot of BS and hatred towards the countries mentioned. Let's examine his examples of the players that he using. Charles Piutau, born in Auckland, New Zealand. Steven Luatua, also born in Auckland, New Zealand. Both players have been capped by the All Blacks which is the national team of their home island of New Zealand. Consequently shunned and blacklisted by the country of their birth for daring to venture out of the NZ bubble to seek experiences and employment, I have to ask which party is acting like the oppressor? Neither of the players have been limited by their club - the likes of Leiua (clubmate) have won POTM at the 2019 RWC- nor the country they currently reside in. Luatua said this in 2018;

"For Charles [Piutau] I think it's great he wants to represent Tonga and for other guys who have represented New Zealand in the past as well. But I made my bed with the All Blacks and I loved my time there and I wouldn't change anything for it. I have Samoan heritage but I wouldn't trade in my time with the All Blacks for that at the moment."

If anyone follows Steve on social media he clearly views himself as a Kiwi still and performs Kamate and the like in Bristol rather than the Siva Tau with Samoans. Charles probably wants to play international rugby still and his older brother Siale is captain of Tonga so understandable choice to change allegiance if the opportunity arises, but this is essentially down to Tonga's more open policy on players versus New Zealand's zero tolerance.

Impey is an ex-lawyer and marketing money man previously branded "the arch enemy of public youth radio", do we honestly think he's been speaking out of his fondness for equality in the sport or his own self-interest/NZ rugby's?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

No one to my knowledge is saying NH teams haven't used players from other countries in their nations first XV

That's not the point.
The point is you seem to believe there is nothing wrong with it. Either that or you conveniently keep your mouth shuts when it's convenient.

He is directly and deliberately not questioning the rules.

Disagree. I
I think he is hypocritical about the way he is doing so, but he is most certainly doing what you claim he is not.

He is trying to get people to police the system through some warped version of a moral compass, while insisting that the ones breaking that moral compass are someone else.

You are confusing two things. His criticism and to whom that criticism is applied to. His criticism is not wrong. The fact that he selectively chooses not to apply such criticism to some, whether you like it or not, another matter.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's not the point.
The point is you seem to believe there is nothing wrong with it. Either that or you conveniently keep your mouth shuts when it's convenient.


Disagree. I
I think he is hypocritical about the way he is doing so, but he is most certainly doing what you claim he is not.


You are confusing two things. His criticism and to whom that criticism is applied to. His criticism is not wrong. The fact that he selectively chooses not to apply such criticism to some, whether you like it or not, another matter.

He wants T1 players to be allowed to play for a T2 nation after they stop getting picked. Surely you of all people on here don't want that rule?

I think it's a ridiculous thing to consider in a sport which already apparently has eligibility issues.

 

[bushytop]

That's not the point.
The point is you seem to believe there is nothing wrong with it. Either that or you conveniently keep your mouth shuts when it's convenient.

Yap yap yap!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I dont think i can contribute more, people dont seem to be able past his incredibly poor approach to talk about the issue, keep coming back to the examples he gave rather than his point which was a way to help the PI's.....I think there are better way as i described above but im not against...doing something...the sport will just stagnate without growth of the top tier but everyone just seems to care about protecting what they have

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I really don't get the argument for players of PI heritage being able to jump between what teams they represent. I also think Fiji and Tonga performed well by their standards (barring Fiji's understandable complacency against Uruguay) and could have potentially progressed if they had been in Group A. Samoa have a dysfunctional union and are going down the toilet in XVs and (I think) 7s, that's nothing to do with the British Isles based unions.

Plus we haven't seen the impact of extending residency to 5 years, which should assist the PIs and the PIs benefit almost as much as Scotland with the grandparent rule.

All I all, I'm not getting this argument at all, unless he is arguing that the World League would have made it more financially viable for PI players to represent the PIs rather than other nations. I just don't see why it is even his beef.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I really don't get the argument for players of PI heritage being able to jump between what teams they represent. I also think Fiji and Tonga performed well by their standards (barring Fiji's understandable complacency against Uruguay) and could have potentially progressed if they had been in Group A. Samoa have a dysfunctional union and are going down the toilet in XVs and (I think) 7s, that's nothing to do with the British Isles based unions.

Plus we haven't seen the impact of extending residency to 5 years, which should assist the PIs and the PIs benefit almost as much as Scotland with the grandparent rule.

All I all, I'm not getting this argument at all, unless he is arguing that the World League would have made it more financially viable for PI players to represent the PIs rather than other nations. I just don't see why it is even his beef.

thats exactly what he's getting at.

once again, dont know how true it is, but he's saying the home unions have stopped ideas like the world league or returning players, its not about PI players playing for the home unions

 

[TRF_Olyy]

World league would kill the world cup, so we should be very thankful it was thrown in the garbage where it belonged

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

He wants T1 players to be allowed to play for a T2 nation after they stop getting picked. Surely you of all people on here don't want that rule?

I think it's a ridiculous thing to consider in a sport which already apparently has eligibility issues.

Agreed. Never intended to say or imply otherwise.
I disagree with his solution 100%, but i do see merit in some of the points he makes and can acknowledge some of the problems he mentions.

Yap yap yap!

Meme boy run out of animated gifs already?
The horror!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

World league would kill the world cup, so we should be very thankful it was thrown in the garbage where it belonged

and im coming down on the side that thinks that if the world cup with only a handful of contenders each time is all we have then its going to slowly kill the sport

 

[die_mole]

But how does the world league help the pacific nations? It originally was supposed to be the USA and japan joining the rugby championship and then there was discussion of Fiji replacing America.

Those organizing the world league don't give a damn about helping the pacific nations.

Allowing players to switch nations is something that should only happen under specific situations. Like if they played under20 for one nation and then moved to another country they were already eligible for.

The only way to help pacific nations is international windows that club teams can't play in and the organization of team training camps in Europe and Australia/new zealand for players who are based there.

He'll, I'd love if MLR became the home for island rugby players if we can get to a good enough standard. Each country could have training camps here if they wanted to.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Agreed. Never intended to say or imply otherwise.
I disagree with his solution 100%, but i do see merit in some of the points he makes and can acknowledge some of the problems he mentions.

That's fair, but you surely you see that he's against the change that's actually needed and would hurt his union? He's just passing the buck.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

But how does the world league help the pacific nations? It originally was supposed to be the USA and japan joining the rugby championship and then there was discussion of Fiji replacing America.

Those organizing the world league don't give a damn about helping the pacific nations.

Allowing players to switch nations is something that should only happen under specific situations. Like if they played under20 for one nation and then moved to another country they were already eligible for.

The only way to help pacific nations is international windows that club teams can't play in and the organization of team training camps in Europe and Australia/new zealand for players who are based there.

He'll, I'd love if MLR became the home for island rugby players if we can get to a good enough standard. Each country could have training camps here if they wanted to.

to start with it had a second level competition for those not in the RC but then it had promotion and relegation, it would be easier for the PI counties to convince fringe potential AB or wallabies players to play for them if they could show they were pushing for promotion, actually could show a number of high level games they have programmed, games they guys could use to show their talent to secure better club contracts

That's fair, but you surely you see that he's against the change that's actually needed and would hurt his union? He's just passing the buck.

what change is that?

 

[die_mole]

to start with it had a second level competition for those not in the RC but then it had promotion and relegation, it would be easier for the PI counties to convince fringe potential AB or wallabies players to play for them if they could show they were pushing for promotion, actually could show a number of high level games they have programmed, games they guys could use to show their talent to secure better club contracts

A 100000000 times better deal for PI is if they got to play two tier one tests every year instead of a 5%(not exact math) chance of playing 5 tier one tests a year and dropping out after that year.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

A 100000000 times better deal for PI is if they got to play two tier one tests every year instead of a 5%(not exact math) chance of playing 5 tier one tests a year and dropping out after that year.

agreed, thats why rather than a world league my preference is for every team to have to qualify for the world cup, the PI nations could then show sponsors and players they would pay NZ, aussie and japan, maybe Arg twice (home and away) as well as each other over the three years between world cups, June tests just become qualifying tours

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

what change is that?

https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/the-residency-rule-thread.44519/

Cruz sets his ideal landscape out here, I don't actually agree but I like getting his point of view as it's so contrasting to my own!

 

[die_mole]

agreed, thats why rather than a world league my preference is for every team to have to qualify for the world cup, the PI nations could then show sponsors and players they would pay NZ, aussie and japan, maybe Arg twice (home and away) as well as each other over the three years between world cups, June tests just become qualifying tours

Thank you. But the big boys will never want to end the separate and not equal word rugby lives in, and all the tier ones (Argentina is a little better with putting a c team in the America's competition) are to blame.

 

[Rinkadink]

he's saying the home unions have stopped ideas like the world league or returning players

[Citation needed]

Also what does voting against the world league (which was a bad idea, what's the point of the RWC?) have to do with Pacific Island eligibility?