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Carter takes five! Heads North for Six Months.

I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer.
 
Wouldn't it be ironic if, while Carter is up North, he breaks his leg and is put out of action for at least a year. The NZRU would be kicking them for letting him go and wish they worked harder to keep him.
 
Toulon most likely. Their owner has made it his mission to basically buy an entirely new team by the start of Season 08/09.
 
its all down to sponsorship deals from what I hear. Carter is personally sponsored by ADIDAS and both the teams that are after him are PUMA's.

i think once they sort that out we will find out. Pity, going to miss him for the crusaders next year.
 
its all down to sponsorship deals from what I hear. Carter is personally sponsored by ADIDAS and both the teams that are after him are PUMA's.

i think once they sort that out we will find out. Pity, going to miss him for the crusaders next year. [/b]

Yeah, Carter is in effect on loan rather than being sold outright. A different kettle of fish.

How about Munster then? Stade Francais?
 
I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer. [/b]

That's nice, so you'll be willing to write the cheque to keep the NZRFU afloat when they lose the Murdoch contract because no one is around to play in the Super 14 anymore?
 
I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer. [/b]

"all Kiwis believe". Great that you can speak for all NZ and pigeon-hole us as having a collective-conscious.

I'd love to hear your plan for how we could retain players by "reworking our contract system". NZRFU posted a loss last year. That was us paying as hard as we can to keep our players.

I assume that unless an amazing plan is posted, you haven't thought before you posted and that said post can only be a negatively biased commentary against New Zealand rugby and our understandable distress at the current rugby climate for us.

By the way, New Zealander's aren't the one's who most believe that we are the "Best In The World". Surely that ***le belongs to the clubs from your beloved NH. Munster have at times felt that they needed our help, but you don't support them, do you?

Remember, you shot first.
 
My plan would be let them play wherever the hell they want as long as their clubs agree to let them back for any national selection. It's not the most complicated set-up, so it may be hard to grasp for everyone.
It won't be fantastic for the Super 14 Teams nor the Provincial Clubs and Unions, but it will keep the top players on the National Team and let the lower levels pay their lower wages to developing players. Maybe, just maybe it's the only real option at this time.

And who says you don't have a national conscious? It is a generality, but nothings wrong with them. Maybe a few of you are the exception to the rule...MAYBE :bleh!:
 
I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer.[/b]

What a stupid thing to say mate. How could people say "The Best in the World" when they didn't win the World Cup. Only a fool would say that, or believe that people think that. :toss:
 
I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer.[/b]

What a stupid thing to say mate. How could people say "The Best in the World" when they didn't win the World Cup. Only a fool would say that, or believe that people think that. :toss: [/b]
Dude, I'm with you...Only a fool would say that. However, the current trend is that no matter what team we talk about, the typical NZ response is that it is ludacris to think that any team would or could beat them. This to me however indirectly spells out "We Think We Are The Best In THe World." I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be offensive, but just honest about attitudes in regard to national identity.
 
Who are you quoting? Nate, you are quoting a stereotype. An outdated and remarkably untrue one and applying it to one and all.

If an All Blacks fan wants to believe that on their day the All Blacks can beat anyone, how does that differ from a French or South African supporter who feels the same?

Your opinion that ALL NZ'ers or even most, feel that we are far better than everyone else, is more or less like me saying that you are ignorant and then trying to say that the WHOLE rugby forum thinks so. I don't believe that, but even if I did, I don't have the right to say that it is EVERYONE's opinion.

You have appropriated your view of a stereotypical NZ rugby fan to every NZ'er, you have to accept surely that your comment is inflammatory and at the least incorrectly worded?
 
I don't think we are the best in the world. My group of friends don't think we are best in the world. So where exactly have you got this idea? Who exactly have you been talking to?
 
I think it's the trend thats been going through the NH over the last few years. Arrogantly call NZ'ers arrogant. Thank goodness not all of them are acting like this. Mind you I would never tar them all with the same brush!
 
I'm not a fan of "special circumstances." It should be freedom for all or freedom for none (preferably freedom for all). If the NZRU are as scared as they should be, why don't they truly look at reworking their contract system. When you're "The Best In The World" as all Kiwis believe, it would get a bit hard to not go out into said World to ply your trade for the highest wage on offer. [/b]


Oh please spare me!!!!

Let me introduce you to a few facts

New Zealand - One Country, 4 million people, 5 fully professional rugby teams (S14), 14 semi professional rugby teams (ANZC)

Europe - over a dozen countries, 480 million people, 46 fully professional rugby clubs at the top level, another 40 fully professional rugby clubs at the next level, and dozens of semi-professional rugby clubs at several levels below that!

No contest!!!

No amount of "reworking their contract system" is going to make the slightest bit off difference.

Any way you slice it, there is not enough money to keep Dan Carter, or any other rugby player in NZ if they really want to go. The deal struck between the French clubs and the NZRU is a good one. I'm picking he will go to Toulon. I would rather see more deals like this than see players like Chris Jack, Carl Hayman and Luke McAllister gone forever. That these players will likely spend the rest of the playing careers playing club rugby in Europe is a tremendous waste of talent!
 
Most of my opinion has been formed from the conversations at time of world cup and even since then. I don't think it's inflamitory to say that "New Zealander's think they are the best." I wasn't aware of the growing concensus of you that think you are second or third best (behind who? Argentina? France? If I stated that the All Blacks aren't as good as either of those two teams, I'd surely begin to face argument after argument). So, if you don't think you are the best, please inform me of who you do think are the best at the moment.

Second point I will address is that my statements in regards to contract is let the players play wherever they want and still be able to be selected for AB duty. Instead of permanantly losing Chris Jack and whoever else, only lose them for the domestic competitions. Eoin Reddan plays for Wasps and CHABAL!!!!!!! plays for Sale, yet they are each able to play for their respective countries when called into action. So, let your own countrymen do the same, with the clause that they must be available for national selection. I don't see what's so feckin' hard to understand. If there are problems with that, please addres them, because I'm very curious to hear.
 
Looks like he will be heading to Toulon as they are the only club who would pay out for the use of a world-class player for six months.
 
That's nice, so you'll be willing to write the cheque to keep the NZRFU afloat when they lose the Murdoch contract because no one is around to play in the Super 14 anymore?
[/b]

Sink or swim mate, from the point of view from a body like the European Union, if it is a loss making venture and unsustainable then why subsidise it?

And if Murdoch fails to renew the contract to cover Super Rugby, you really have to look at yourselves and ask yourself why he's done that.

The problem is that we're all living in the wrong century. We're living in a world where players are seen as employees and where it is becoming quickly accepted that freedom of movement for work is an undeniable human right. The European Union would reject any move by the iRB or any sports body to prevent players from moving North or to impose quotas and would most likely take the body to court.

Exiling players who go north is simply not a sustainable option. South Africa know that which is why allot of their players who have gone north are still eligible for the Spingboks. Offering incentives like sabbaticals while a smart and good move is only a short term measure and eventually, the NZRU will be selecting players working overseas and dealing with the idiot, arrogant and sodding awkward French clubs just like any other nation has to.


EDIT: Actually, the Elephant sitting in the room is how South Africa have broken ranks with the other big two SH nations and have selected most of their top players who are 'oop north. Okay, some like Victor Matfield may be on their way back home, but the fact remains that this is a quite a startling move, one which shows that the SARU are willing to take any step necessary in order to remain competitive in international rugby.


I wonder what the ARU and NZRU think of what the Boks have done?
 
Prestwick writes....."Sink or swim mate, from the point of view from a body like the European Union, if it is a loss making venture and unsustainable then why subsidise it?"

I wonder where French farmers stand with a policy like that. Do you think they will be driving their cattle and tractors down the Champs-Élysées again anytime soon?

Prestwick writes....."The problem is that we're all living in the wrong century. We're living in a world where players are seen as employees and where it is becoming quickly accepted that freedom of movement for work is an undeniable human right. The European Union would reject any move by the iRB or any sports body to prevent players from moving North or to impose quotas and would most likely take the body to court."

Which court? The ECJ? How does a European Body take an International Body to court? Are the EU going to take FIFA to court over the 6 + 5 rule? No, because they cannot. They have no jurisdiction over an International Body. The ECJ could make a ruling and FIFA will simply give them the finger and challenge them to enforce the unenforcible. FIFA on the other hand can simply suspend any member Association that does not comply with FIFA regulations (Google "Greek FA" of you don't believe me)

IRB Regulation 9.1 states "A Union has first and last call upon the availability of a Player for selection and appearances for a National Representative Team or National Squad of that Union and all attendances associated therewith, including training sessions". Its a regulation that ALL National Unions sign up to. Invoking it is a simple enough process with a clear set of consequences for failure to comply.

►Union A wants Player A who plays for a Club in Union B
►The Club in Union B refuses to release the player
►Union A makes a formal complaint to the iRB
►The iRB instructs Union B to secure the release of the player from the Club
►If Union B fails to secure the release, the iRB suspends Union B UFN

Prestwick writes....."Exiling players who go north is simply not a sustainable option. South Africa know that which is why allot of their players who have gone north are still eligible for the Spingboks. Offering incentives like sabbaticals while a smart and good move is only a short term measure and eventually, the NZRU will be selecting players working overseas and dealing with the idiot, arrogant and sodding awkward French clubs just like any other nation has to."

Agreed. Its a policy that was right in its time, and perhaps its had its time.

See above for how to deal with "idiot, arrogant and sodding awkward French clubs"
 

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