England EPS 2016/17 season.

[BPM]

i hope by the end of next season England play
1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler

At least once.

Perhaps off the bench but I don't see that unit starting a game.

Genge is such an immature player. Runs away from support, poor discipline, etc. Want to see him put in some smart performances before he comes back to play for England.

This is harsh. He is young and raw and has a lot to learn, but his main barriers to moving up the pecking order are two excellent looseheads in front of him in Mako and Marler.

Genge probably brings a bit of Mako's impact in the loose with a bit of Marler's strength and aggression, but at this point in his career, I don't see him challenging either. Definitely not before Japan.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Perhaps off the bench but I don't see that unit starting a game.

This is harsh. He is young and raw and has a lot to learn, but his main barriers to moving up the pecking order are two excellent looseheads in front of him in Mako and Marler.

Genge probably brings a bit of Mako's impact in the loose with a bit of Marler's strength and aggression, but at this point in his career, I don't see him challenging either. Definitely not before Japan.

Could see it against Samoa potentially just depends if Jones is telling the truth re Lions players or not.

Honestly i can see Genge challenging both them by Japan, the amount of improvement he has done in one season has been amazing, he went from being a fringe player for Bristol in the championship to being Leicester Tigers starting LH in less than 12 months, anyone who has seen him play week in and week out can easily see his growth.

He didn't benefit from having Williams at TH imo in argentina, mullan was made to look better with Collier next to him. The one scrum Mullan had with Williams and they where driven back 10m.

Genge is such an immature player. Runs away from support, poor discipline, etc. Want to see him put in some smart performances before he comes back to play for England.

Vunipola isn't exactly shining a light on himself as mr calm in the NZ either.....

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Fully with Tigs on Genge. I think he'll be right in the mix for Japan.

Marler's our best all round LH and that will prob still be the case come Japan. Some aspects of Mako's game can undoubtedly be very good, but I think he's overrated as a prop and I was saying that long before last week. If everything else stacks up I think Genge's aggression and physicality will be very appealing to Eddie; I think he likes Underhill for similar reasons.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Fully with Tigs on Genge. I think he'll be right in the mix for Japan.

Marler's our best all round LH and that will prob still be the case come Japan. Some aspects of Mako's game can undoubtedly be very good, but I think he's overrated as a prop and I was saying that long before last week. If everything else stacks up I think Genge's aggression and physicality will be very appealing to Eddie; I think he likes Underhill for similar reasons.

Completely agree

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

To win in Japan we'll need to beat the ABs or at least beat the team who beat the ABs. So what's Eddie learnt this summer in Arg and down under?

Firstly we have a core of players who now know that the ABs are good, but aren't made of kryptonite. Stripping that mystique away is half the battle.

Second before you think of anything else you need a team who can compete physically. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a pack pretty close to....

1. Marler (as above)
2. George. Thanks Dylan, but your race is run. Bench up for grabs.
3. Sinckler. Cole on bench in case scrum gets sticky
4. Kruis
5. Lawes
6. Itoje (element of getting best players on the pitch, but always said he's a 6 anyway)
7. Underhill
8. Binny

That feels a really nice balance and would be seriously athletic and physical. With the likes of Hughes, Launch, Genge / Mako, a Curry or two, and old stagers like Robshaw and Cole around the bench will be pretty tasty too.

Less clear behind the scrum

Faz has to be in somewhere. He was rubbish in the first 20 today, but came good when the pressure was on as he usually does. This series has proved how crucial goal kicking is and RWC knock out games are usually pretty cagey.

Watson's also nailed on, but again could be in one of two positions.

Most of the others are up for grabs to a degree. Assuming a Devoto / Francis / Mallinder doesn't come through for 12 I wouldn't mind seeing:

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Faz
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Daly

Not the biggest back line in the world, but a decent amount of experience, two playmakers, three goal kickers and a lot of gas.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wouldn't mind seeing
1) Marler
2) George
3) Cole
4) Launchbury
5) Lawes
6) Robshaw
7) Underhill
8) Vunipola
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) May
12) Faz
13) Manu/Te'o
14) Watson
15) Daly

16) Cowan-Dickie
17) Vunipola
18) Sinckler
19) Itoje
20) Hughes
21) Care
22) Slade
23) Nowell

Think that is a ridiculous amount of impact of the bench,

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Wouldn't mind seeing
1) Marler
2) George
3) Cole
4) Launchbury
5) Lawes
6) Robshaw
7) Underhill
8) Vunipola
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) May
12) Faz
13) Manu/Te'o
14) Watson
15) Daly

16) Cowan-Dickie
17) Vunipola
18) Sinckler
19) Itoje
20) Hughes
21) Care
22) Slade
23) Nowell

Think that is a ridiculous amount of impact of the bench,

Even as a Chiefs supporter I don't think Slade is anywhere near international level. I wouldn't have him starting for Chiefs ATM.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Even as a Chiefs supporter I don't think Slade is anywhere near international level. I wouldn't have him starting for Chiefs ATM.

He really needs to pick a position and say to Baxter i want to focus soley on 10/12/13.
For his England chances he needs to have a position and stick with it now trouble is Exeter are stacked in the midfield and Steenson is a club legend and a hell of a club player.
He might have to look elsewhere potentially IMO.

Devoto having a breakthough season hasn't helped his cause.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He really needs to pick a position and say to Baxter i want to focus soley on 10/12/13.
For his England chances he needs to have a position and stick with it now trouble is Exeter are stacked in the midfield and Steenson is a club legend and a hell of a club player.
He might have to look elsewhere potentially IMO.

Devoto having a breakthough season hasn't helped his cause.

I rate Devoto more as a 12 and a 13 and I really don't see Slade playing 10. The chances he's gotten there he's really struggled, he can't act as the core play maker. He can come up with moments of magic but can't consistently run a back line which is what's needed from a 10. And as I said, if he's being considered as a 12/13 then Devoto deserves to be in over him. I'd argue that Hill does too.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If Slade moved where would be best for him? I'd hate for him to drop off the radar entirely because it feels he has mountains of talent but just hasn't quite tapped it yet. Then again, he could be the next 12trees...

 

[Reiser99]

Slade may have talent and I fully support his inclusion when he's at his best, but he hasn't been playing his best. He needs to be playing regularly for Exeter and playing well to be considered personally. Otherwise there are other players in form who would perform better.

 

[MarkyH]

Well, I think that was a fantastic 16/17 season for England. No Grand Slam but more development of youth, a great win in Aus, an autumn unbeaten and winning 2-0 in Argentina with a massive reserve and youth squad...

The players that went to the Lions will come back knowing that NZ aren't invincible and shouldn't have a fear factor. Also shows how much physicality you need to compete with them...

The young players were more than good enough to beat a Tier 1 nation away from home. Twice. The number 7 conundrum is now a totally different problem, we've got 3 youngsters who could all stake a claim for selection.

Still, where's that young exciting full back when you need one? Hopefully we can see one of Watson or Daly go to FB between now and 2019.

Looking forward to the 17/18 EPS, presume a lot of the Lions regulars will be rested (Jones mentioned this I'm sure). The next two years should be great, and with Jones in charge I'm confident he's got a plan of action that takes us through till then...

 

[Chief Pete]

If Slade moved where would be best for him? I'd hate for him to drop off the radar entirely because it feels he has mountains of talent but just hasn't quite tapped it yet. Then again, he could be the next 12trees...

I personally think he's should train as a FH, I want him to stay but should he become available then I think he'll have his pick from half the prem, I can see someone like Wasps if Cipriani moves to France being a fit, the only circumstance I'd be happy with losing him is if we used him in a deal to attract a grade A England international...

 

[Chief Pete]

Well, I think that was a fantastic 16/17 season for England. No Grand Slam but more development of youth, a great win in Aus, an autumn unbeaten and winning 2-0 in Argentina with a massive reserve and youth squad...

The players that went to the Lions will come back knowing that NZ aren't invincible and shouldn't have a fear factor. Also shows how much physicality you need to compete with them...

The young players were more than good enough to beat a Tier 1 nation away from home. Twice. The number 7 conundrum is now a totally different problem, we've got 3 youngsters who could all stake a claim for selection.

Still, where's that young exciting full back when you need one? Hopefully we can see one of Watson or Daly go to FB between now and 2019.

Looking forward to the 17/18 EPS, presume a lot of the Lions regulars will be rested (Jones mentioned this I'm sure). The next two years should be great, and with Jones in charge I'm confident he's got a plan of action that takes us through till then...

I'd like to see Daly at FB, Watson & Nowell starting on the wings with Jonny May on the bench, saying that I actually thought Mike Brown had two of his better games in Argentina and his part in the Francis try was world class...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd like to see Daly at FB, Watson & Nowell starting on the wings with Jonny May on the bench, saying that I actually thought Mike Brown had two of his better games in Argentina and his part in the Francis try was world class...

Wouldn't want May on the bench. Covers 1 position and doesn't make much impact. Also just don't rate him that much.

 

[Chief Pete]

Wouldn't want May on the bench. Covers 1 position and doesn't make much impact. Also just don't rate him that much.

Personal preference, If Ford & Farrell are both starting then I'd take a centre & winger on the bench, FB covered by Watson if Daly was to go down, I think May's club career has become stagnant and he'd benefit from a move, Solomona probably offers more impact over time but right now I'd take Jonny.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well, I think that was a fantastic 16/17 season for England. No Grand Slam but more development of youth, a great win in Aus, an autumn unbeaten and winning 2-0 in Argentina with a massive reserve and youth squad...

The players that went to the Lions will come back knowing that NZ aren't invincible and shouldn't have a fear factor. Also shows how much physicality you need to compete with them...

The young players were more than good enough to beat a Tier 1 nation away from home. Twice. The number 7 conundrum is now a totally different problem, we've got 3 youngsters who could all stake a claim for selection.

Still, where's that young exciting full back when you need one? Hopefully we can see one of Watson or Daly go to FB between now and 2019.

Looking forward to the 17/18 EPS, presume a lot of the Lions regulars will be rested (Jones mentioned this I'm sure). The next two years should be great, and with Jones in charge I'm confident he's got a plan of action that takes us through till then...

I hope Jones has some sway over the clubs, I'd hate for him to say England will rest them only for the clubs to completely ignore that and start grinding them down the second they get them back. I understand clubs obviously pay for the players but we need the degree of cooperation NZ has over resting players to really compete long term. Dan Cole and Robshaw in particular strike me of players that are just used until they break with no rest.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Personal preference, If Ford & Farrell are both starting then I'd take a centre & winger on the bench, FB covered by Watson if Daly was to go down, I think May's club career has become stagnant and he'd benefit from a move, Solomona probably offers more impact over time but right now I'd take Jonny.

TBH with the players you've suggested I'd much rather May start, Watson FB and Daly bench. Means all players are in their natural position and Daly brings much more impact.

 

[Goodey]

Has Daly at 15 ever been a regular thing at any level?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Has Daly at 15 ever been a regular thing at any level?

Not that I know of. He's always been a 13 that featured occasionally on the wing for at FB IIRC.