[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[goodNumber10]

I have two questions regarding this:

1. Has the 'exception circumstances' rule been confirmed yet? I always thought it was defined as a certain number of injuries in one position. I didn't think it was an arbitrary measure or that it could be suspended at a World Cup.

2. Has there been any confirmation of interest in Abendanon other than by pundits who've suddenly notice he is an ace fullback? With Armitage we've had years of speculation and actually RFU comment. With Bendy it seems to be Stu Barnes and others going 'oh look, he played well!'.

Just for thought.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...pick-Steffon-Armitage-and-Nick-Abendanon.html

Thats about it AFAICT!

- - - Updated - - -

Tom Youngs english speaks perfect IMO.

Just reads by some of you wrong.

the thing that does my head in on all of this, they invoke the clause bring the pillsbury doughboy back and then we don't win the world cup.... we've completely screwed everyone over and not achieved anything.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Does anyone think the whole Steffon Armitage is very media driven? How many people in the game are asking for his inclusion? It seems totally driven by the Telegraph, Mail and the odd pundit like SCW.

I wish they would just shut up.

It's almost entirely media driven.

 

[Peat]

the thing that does my head in on all of this, they invoke the clause bring the pillsbury doughboy back and then we don't win the world cup.... we've completely screwed everyone over and not achieved anything.

And just imagine the position they'll be in if Steflon comes back and is instrumental to a World Cup win (or even good tournament) and isn't available next 6N.

It's one of the clearest lose-lose positions I've seen, with the added bonus that excluding all French based players when we know they could be picked for this and doing poorly will also be a lose for a lot of people.

 

[j'nuh]

It's almost entirely media driven.

Lancaster did fly to France in order to talk with the Armitages about their international careers last year. That had to fuel the fire.

(http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-flying-visit-to-the-cote-dazur-9278947.html)

I always perceived exceptional circumstances to be fairly flexible. That the head coach doesn't need to be entirely consistent in applying it, it just needs to achieve the stated objective of keeping England stars in England. If Lancaster invoked exceptional circumstances to call up Steffon and Bendy, I don't think many England players will see that as an endorsement of France-based players.

Some players may feel aggrieved by it, but they shouldn't be. An England spot isn't an entitlement.

The thing that would bother me about Lancaster using the exceptional circumstances would be that for me, it shows a panicking head coach. Having four years to build a squad and then pushing the panic button at the last stage to bring in a couple of new players would mean exceptionally poor planning. But that's what it has been. Lancaster put all of his eggs in the Wood-Robshaw basket, and if they can't deliver after so many tests together, then it will be a failure of Lancaster's not to diversify much earlier.

 

[Peat]

I would like to add -

If he is so keen to use Steffon Armitage that he would invoke exceptional circumstances, why wouldn't he promise Steflon the EPS spot he allegedly wanted prior to committing himself to Bath for the rest of the season?

Lancaster did fly to France in order to talk with the Armitages about their international careers last year. That had to fuel the fire.

(http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-flying-visit-to-the-cote-dazur-9278947.html)

I always perceived exceptional circumstances to be fairly flexible. That the head coach doesn't need to be entirely consistent in applying it, it just needs to achieve the stated objective of keeping England stars in England. If Lancaster invoked exceptional circumstances to call up Steffon and Bendy, I don't think many England players will see that as an endorsement of France-based players.

Some players may feel aggrieved by it, but they shouldn't be. An England spot isn't an entitlement.

An England spot is not an entitlement, but being told the truth usually is. Dylan Hartley would quite clearly be Montpellier-bound if he didn't think it would adversely affect his world cup. If they do then turn around and pick French-bound players, they have effectively lied to him and every other EQP. I believe Lancaster's quotes in public over the last couple of years back this up and shoot down the matter of it being flexible, although I haven't looked at the matter in a while and can't claim to have seen all of them.

Ultimately, if Lancaster is perceived as having been untruthful with his players, I don't see that going down too well. I don't think they are going to complain, or should complain, if at the last Lancaster makes a decision within the framework they know that results in a few different players. But suddenly departing from that is going to be a very different kettle of fish.

The thing that would bother me about Lancaster using the exceptional circumstances would be that for me, it shows a panicking head coach. Having four years to build a squad and then pushing the panic button at the last stage to bring in a couple of new players would mean exceptionally poor planning. But that's what it has been. Lancaster put all of his eggs in the Wood-Robshaw basket, and if they can't deliver after so many tests together, then it will be a failure of Lancaster's not to diversify much earlier.

A couple of team changes in the last 12 months are fairly normal, to be fair, and I think experimentation has been made difficult by a good run together and neverending injuries to his next favourite flanker in Croft. Besides, by my rough and slightly pedantic reckoning, they've only been the flanker combination for 19 of Lancaster's 39 games (I think that's the right total) - not quite all the eggs in one basket by any means.

Still, not a good look.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why do you think Lancaster felt the need to go over to Toulon in the first place, j'nuh?

Wasn't he over there to have a word with Wilkinson anyway?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

only player we should bring into the set up from France is Toby Flood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our 10's are not up to it IMO bar Freddie Burns.

 

[chippieolamus]

only player we should bring into the set up from France is Toby Flood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our 10's are not up to it IMO bar Freddie Burns.

Don't...

 

[Peat]

While I think Tigs was joking, Flood has more experience and versatility combined than any other option for third fly-half slot combined. If the doors are open to French based players, I'd consider him at least.

 

[ncurd]

While I think Tigs was joking, Flood has more experience and versatility combined than any other option for third fly-half slot combined. If the doors are open to French based players, I'd consider him at least.

Cips or Flood if that's the case, I know who Lancaster would pick and I know who'd I pick. They'd be different choices....at least Flood might actually see game time!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Flood would be a better shout for the 12 shirt than Faz, 36 or Burrell (or recent form).

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Sam Burgess has been selected to play blindside flanker for Bath tomorrow... a move to the back row and a move towards the England squad?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

 

[Patchey]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

...

 

[Peat]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

You are like the sigesige of England threads.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

I'm not quite sure what planet you're living on.

Try something like this

9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Nowell
12) Eastmond/Slade/Tuilagi (when fit)
13) Joseph
14) Watson/Wade
15) Brown

 

[chippieolamus]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

Don't even go there... (surely Foden at 9 though, idc if he's injured)

 

[TheSaffycen]

I feel a team of
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Brown
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cipriani

Would be our best shout ATM.

The only issue is a lack of a genuine kicking option. Maybe having Banahan in the 12/13 shirt would help with this ?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

The only issue is a lack of a genuine kicking option. Maybe having Banahan in the 12/13 shirt would help with this ?

I think we're missing out Brad Barritt from this discussion. What he lacks in defence he more than makes up for in attack. Pace to burn, sharp offloads, just look at how he played against the All Blacks for proof!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm not quite sure what planet you're living on.

Try something like this

9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Nowell
12) Eastmond/Slade/Tuilagi (when fit)
13) Joseph
14) Watson/Wade
15) Brown

Lack of kicking options makes this team completely useless.

My revised team is now
9) Lamb
10) Ford
11) Twelvetrees (played on the wing a couple times for Leicester)
12) Flood
13) Farrell
14) Daly
15) Cips

Perfect

Bench
21) Wiggleworth
22) bananaman
23) Barritt