I'd love to see Itoje at 6. Even if it meant Robshaw at 7 - I'm not super keen on Robshaw at 7 but we don't really have many options do we?
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- Thread starter Which Tyler
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What's the craic with Hughes at wasps atm? Noticed he didn't start the other day - rotating players? Coming back from injury? Or is he 2nd choice?
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It could be less to do with Hughes and more to do with the fact that Thompson is playing out of his skin?
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Harrison certainly hasn't blown his chance. I think Jones will have let him know what he needs and we will see what happens in the next camp.
Personally I'd rather have a big 6 and let the 7 roam a bit more.
That means dropping Robshaw and replacing him with someone like Itoje, Haskell or maybe Clifford/ Hughes if they increase work rate.
Personally I'd rather have a big 6 and let the 7 roam a bit more.
That means dropping Robshaw and replacing him with someone like Itoje, Haskell or maybe Clifford/ Hughes if they increase work rate.
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Agreed. Get Itoje bedded in at 6, Underhill can join him when available. Don't think Binny or Hughes are the answer at 8, they'll physically bully Scotland but are too one dimensional to worry the ABs. A more athletic defter 8 like Beaumont or, with a bit of work, Clifford might be the answer.
Hmmm, I'm sure I was yapping on about continuity and succession planning being key to the ABs success the other day.
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I think the pack we should be working towards is:
1. Genge
2. Taylor/LCD
3. Hill
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Williams/Hughes or if he puts on some bulk, Harrison
7. Underhill
8. Beaumont/Vunipola (I agree with points about him being too one dimensional and unfit, but he seems to be slimming. If he can improve on those areas, why not keep him?)
16. George
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Lawes/Ewels
20. Vunipola/Hughes/Beaumont
1. Genge
2. Taylor/LCD
3. Hill
4. Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Williams/Hughes or if he puts on some bulk, Harrison
7. Underhill
8. Beaumont/Vunipola (I agree with points about him being too one dimensional and unfit, but he seems to be slimming. If he can improve on those areas, why not keep him?)
16. George
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Lawes/Ewels
20. Vunipola/Hughes/Beaumont
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Possibly in the longer-term, but I don't see us making that many changes pre-2019.
It's not all about experience for the sake of it, but I can't see why we'd abandon Marler, Mako and Cole before the World Cup? Genge and Hill look very much like the future of the England front row and I expect we will see them getting increasing amounts of game time, but I don't see them leapfrogging the current props any time particularly soon.
George is my pick as our next starting hooker, but I rate both Taylor and Cowan-Dickie highly, so I'd also be looking to build their experience from the bench.
We're very well served at lock and barring injuries, I don't see much changing (apart from maybe the pecking order) from Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes and Ewels. Barrow and maybe Witty could break in to the squad over the next couple of years, but unless the current five suffer a real dip in form, I can't see a really good case to change it.
7 is, as ever, the real question mark. I think it's very difficult to justify the level of hype attached to Underhill. I don't doubt he has a huge amount of potential, but it will be a good while before we see whether he can reach the level of expectation and I worry that trying to live up to the hype may be unhelpful. If Evans starts getting a decent amount of game time a Leicester, he may well steal a march on Underhill. Likewise with Ludlam.
Williams and Hughes could be good options in the short-medium term, but longer-term, Nott looks very promising.
8 seems less of an issue. Billy, Beaumont, Clifford and Hughes all offer different options and I still wouldn't totally rule out Morgan if he can recover his form of 2014/15.
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Cole is too old school, he scrums and occassionally gets a turnover (gets penalised more than he succeeds) but his carrying is woeful. I don't think I've ever seen him get over the gain line. Genge on the other hand does it all the time and having extra options will reduce the pressure on Billy to do it (despite him being able to do it with the pressure) and reduces the need for backs to bash through (see Roberts).
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Cole was one of our best players in Australia. I agree his carrying is terrible - he more or less walks in to contact and goes to ground, but the pros outweigh the cons overall.
Also - Genge is a loosehead so he'd be replacing Marler/Mako rather than Cole.
Paul Hill looks as though he'll be Cole's successor, but he's not starting for Saints at the moment, so until he is going so on a regular basis, he's not a serious option to start for England.
Also - Genge is a loosehead so he'd be replacing Marler/Mako rather than Cole.
Paul Hill looks as though he'll be Cole's successor, but he's not starting for Saints at the moment, so until he is going so on a regular basis, he's not a serious option to start for England.
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Genge is aggressive and dynamic, but he has a lot to learn. Last time out he lost a lot of ball in contact or tried to force offloads where they weren't on. Maybe even just another season and he'll be in with a shout of the starting shirt.
Not seen anything in Hill to get too excited by TBH. Against Sarries Brookes looked like he'd rediscovered some of his mojo and if that continues I expect him to be Cole's understudy / successor idc. But Cole has the shirt nailed down for the foreseeable.
Funny isn't it? We've just been on our best run in years with a hooker and a TH who many criticise for offering nothing outside the set piece. Are they being carried by the rest of the side or setting the platform for others to play off? Basics first!
Not seen anything in Hill to get too excited by TBH. Against Sarries Brookes looked like he'd rediscovered some of his mojo and if that continues I expect him to be Cole's understudy / successor idc. But Cole has the shirt nailed down for the foreseeable.
Funny isn't it? We've just been on our best run in years with a hooker and a TH who many criticise for offering nothing outside the set piece. Are they being carried by the rest of the side or setting the platform for others to play off? Basics first!
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These are not mutually contradictory and the correct answer is both. Winning a World Cup will require more than we are currently getting from the majority of players.
Is Ewers out of the picture...big, aggressive, powerful guy?
Seems so ATM he was in the Saxons but didn't impress enough for Eddie to pick him I guess.
Thoughts on Val Rapava-Ruskin?
Been a standout for Wuss so far, guess the thing is we have quite a few talented Looseheads really.
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Thoughts on Val Rapava-Ruskin?
Been a standout for Wuss so far, guess the thing is we have quite a few talented Looseheads really.
Been a standout for Wuss so far, guess the thing is we have quite a few talented Looseheads really.
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Thoughts on Val Rapava-Ruskin?
Been a standout for Wuss so far, guess the thing is we have quite a few talented Looseheads really.
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I know Genge is loosehead, it was more to highlight the difference in carrying ability between 2 props. Cole has been great for England's set piece but I worry other teams are going to do a Marler on him (constantly accuse him of cheating until referees are scrutinising absolutely everything he does above and beyond what they do for others.) There is no denying that the constant accusations of Marler cheating in the scrum led to him struggling more, opposition scrummagers would often go out of their way to make it look like he was angling in knowing refs were watching him rather than them. Not to say he didn't angle in but I'm not a fan of attempting to manipulate refs with media campaigns accusing others of cheating. Wales and Australia seem to do it before every single game with England.
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Not if someone else does the decent thing and knocks NZ out it won't
There are more rounded players out there, but until any of them convince that they've got equivalent set piece ability I doubt Jones will see reason to change. Those two have 65 and 75 caps and that's a hell of a lot of experience to chuck away lightly. I don't think EJ will be seduced by a bit of flashy carrying by LCD or Sinckler. He's got far more pressing problems than his front row.
And overall, we all call for player X or player Y whoever happens to be the flavour of the month. The reality is that incremental change is generally far better than sweeping change.
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I 100% agree re. the Marler situation.
I think it's far more common to have carrying props at Loosehead (a good few including Genge are ex-8s) than at Tighthead. Given that a Tighthead's role is primarily to 'anchor' the scrum, by nature they're strong an ox but less of an athlete. That's certainly true of Cole, Nel, Ross, Lee etc.
Not if someone else does the decent thing and knocks NZ out it won't
There are more rounded players out there, but until any of them convince that they've got equivalent set piece ability I doubt Jones will see reason to change. Those two have 65 and 75 caps and that's a hell of a lot of experience to chuck away lightly. I don't think EJ will be seduced by a bit of flashy carrying by LCD or Sinckler. He's got far more pressing problems than his front row.
And overall, we all call for player X or player Y whoever happens to be the flavour of the month. The reality is that incremental change is generally far better than sweeping change.
Agree with every word.
The biggest difference between all head coaches and the"Rugby Public" (ie us lot) in my opinion is that almost without exception we are much quicker to call for change - even the more sensible ones. That has to tell us something, I feel
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