France to be "more competitive", finally

[Big Ewis]

The FFR and LNR (basically int'l vs Top 14 respectively) have FIIIIIIINALLY reached a few agreements, and though it's not absolutely perfect yet, it puts a huge smile on my penis. Err, on my face, on my face.

The group of 30 selected players will now "only play 30 matches a year" as a maximum starting from the 2014-15 season.
In there, to be included all of:
int'l test matches - Top 14 matchups - HC fixtures - but still with the exception of playoff/final matches in those last two competitions.
This still needs to be voted by the LNR ("League of National Rugby", word for word) on Dec.19th.

So it's not great for clubs with a lot of French int'ls, like Toulouse who've got the likes of Picamoles, Dusautoir, Nyanga, Fickou, Médard, Huget, Fritz, Maestri...and it'll probably promote more foreigners in teams.......but something needed to be done in light of this dark, dark year result-wise for the XV de France.
Can't all be blamed on this problem, but when you have neither the time to prepare, nor are your players fresh...it counts for a lot, it's just common sense.

ALSO:
- speaking of preparation time, we'll get "13 days" before the tournament starts - as of the next 2014 6N. And not 5 or 6 lousy days like before.
- we'll get 25 as opposed to 23 players when we travel (this year to Cardiff and Murrayfield).

The LNR (Top14) will receive an extra 2 million euros over 4 years to indemnify for their losses in terms of players getting less playing time.


Surely this will all have a destructive effect at some degree. French fans are all pessimistic about all this and the problems this will ultimately entail. But I'm hopeful it'll definitely help a little. I've been waiting for this for a while now, and we finally get more preparation time like everybody else and play less matches like everybody else.
It's just totally unfair to play matches with a big handicap like that.

So don't look for France to start winning 95% of its tests, but at least it's closer to fair now.

 

[Tony Manx]

Wierd one really..............what I get is that the group of 30 players is to be chosen before the summer tour and retained so that they will be monitored within the 30 matches or so the following season. The group can be modified up to 31st December in the case of injuries.

Does this mean, and I ask the question, that players cannot be changed for form reasons?

What about if the style of play is required to change because of serious injury to one or more key players and different players are required to fit in with that style of play?

Are other countries hamstrung to the effect that they must retain the same 30 players?

Answers and deeper explanations please!

I agree with you BE that this is all good news (and will not affect BO/Bayonne or Basque Rugby as they have no internationals YET!) but there is an awful long way to go.......bearing in mind that the English, I believe, have a squad of 40 and more time together than just the days before internationals to train together etc

 

[Big Ewis]

yes, lots of questions unanswered and some unfortunate aspects...but I see this as easily a step forward, even if it's created a huge upheaval amongst French fans.
No doubt Toulouse and Clermont will have the biggest bill to pay here, and that's unfair...but ffs, country first, and if we are to ever see France as world champs it most certainly starts here.
A necessary step, with lots of fine-tuning to operate here and there surely...but a big and necessary step.


Btw, how much do sides like Wales, Ireland, England, Aus, SA or NZ have together per year ??

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

about time this happened a good step for french rugby

 

[profitius]

30 is still too many IMO. 27 would be about right. Its a step in the right direction though.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

30 is still too many IMO. 27 would be about right. Its a step in the right direction though.

i think 25 is a fair number

 

[Big Ewis]

30 is still too many IMO. 27 would be about right. Its a step in the right direction though.

lol "too MUCH" ??...in theory that's the number we'll get all year long, regardless of form. So if a guy's doing fine during the 6N but returns to the Top 14 and sucks for the next few months, that's the same guy we'll have to keep for the Summer int'ls...

And it's like 5% of the total Top 14 number of players.

The problem isn't "too much", in fact if anything it's too little - the problem is where we're picking our guys from. Again, Toulouse and Clermont will suffer the most from this.

 

[FrenchFan]

sorry fair to who? the clubs or the Federation? Agreement is a misnomer. They more like agreed to disagree. the Toulouse President (Bouscatel) resigned from the LNR straight after the meeting and stated the deal was not good for his club. I agree with him.

This proves what I said in previous posts, its the Federation that is creating problems for clubs and doing damage to french rugby, NOT the clubs. The clubs are the lifeblood of the game, they are the ones that take the game FORWARD, without them, there wouldnt be any Top14 and Toulon would not be European champion. You would be left with the suits at the Fed pontificating about a game that doesnt exist. These people are dangerous.

The clubs couldnt care less about the national team. Why would they? Not their problem. Nothing wrong with that. The priority of any Top14 club is the hem..top 14, not the 6 nations, not even the Hcup. The domestic league always comes first because the league standing at the end of season determines everything in the future of the club (money sponsor recruitment audience etc). It is what it is.

one obvious negative effect of this will be to draw MORE foreigners to french clubs who might lean more in favour of recruiting a foreign internationals instead of a french one. And avoid dealing with the brain-dead Federation (I dont blame them). So here we go again, its the action of the Federation that is once again detrimental to the game here, NOT THE CLUBS. Clubs DONT WANT a silly mickey mouse agreement that includes some 30-player elite group nobody in grass-root and pro club rugby gives a **** about.
sorry here, in a healthy league, clubs shoud always come first

 

[djwizard84]

This sounds like politics, they just try to do a mess of the situation.
The real answer here is to change the calendar and respect the fluency of the tournaments on turn. To play 6 Nations after the final of each national tournament would be the best. Like that the players how really deserve to be on the national side should play on their top moment.
This is not only a matter of European rivalry but as well against SH nations. They have so a good organized calendar that they can always play at a top level.

 

[FrenchFan]

This sounds like politics, they just try to do a mess of the situation.
The real answer here is to change the calendar and respect the fluency of the tournaments on turn. To play 6 Nations after the final of each national tournament would be the best. Like that the players how really deserve to be on the national side should play on their top moment.
This is not only a matter of European rivalry but as well against SH nations. They have so a good organized calendar that they can always play at a top level.

>>sounds like politics, it IS politics. Its all about power. Nothing else.

the gulf btw the top 14 clubs and Federation is widening. Theyre trying to paper of the cracks (chasm more like it) by talking about an 'agreement' in the media with all bells & whistles (its the season for it). But there is no agreement, only on paper. Its a bit like a couple getting a divorce theyt have to sign a document.
2 of the most powerful club presidents (Bouscatel at Toulouse, Boudjelal at Toulon) have publicly stated their disapproval of the so-called agreement. How can that be good? Boudjelal has threatened NOT to release his french internationals. I have never heard such talk before in french rugby. In the past there use to be a tacit agreement that the clubs would release their internationals. Not anymore. Now they ahve to go thru lengthy and protracted negotiations, because precisely they CANNOT agree i.e see eye to eye. So expect more fireworks btw the bigger clubs and the suits at FFR.
You cant play 6N at the end of the domestic league. There would need to change the dates of the tournament. THats never going to happen!
The SH has a better calendar? Yes and better players too. YOu have to marvel at the lunkheads at the Federation who planned 3 tests agst the ABs in New Zealand last June. They scheduled the game BEFORE the Top 14 final. So some of the players like Remy Tales of Castres were bound to miss the start of the tour. The guy had to travel all the way to NZ and play the 2nd test after a championship final and 20 hours on a plane. How profesionnal is that. Who organises those tours to the SH at the Federation? what are these people smoking?? 3 test games agst the AB, why not 5? the obsession by the management to play agst the AB is ridiculous. There are fixated on trying to beat the world champions, when the reality is that the AB are playing on a different planet. We should start by concentrating on beating our european rivals before worrying about the ABs!

 

[Big Ewis]

The clubs are the lifeblood of the game, they are the ones that take the game FORWARD, without them, there wouldnt be any Top14 and Toulon would not be European champion.
I agree of course clubs are the lifeblood of French Rugby, obviously, nobody's questioning that. But Toulon are only European champions because they bought tons of international stars, let's not kid ourselves.

The clubs couldnt care less about the national team. Why would they? Not their problem. Nothing wrong with that.
Because obviously representing France, your country, is at very least 'important' and these guys should understand the true weight and importance of the 6N, test matches and RWC. Of COURSE it should be a concern. "Nothing wrong with that" you say ? So we ought to have cash seeking as authorities who don't care about the country's success at int'l level ? that's perfectly ridiculous. The club is their profession and main focus of course, but the XV de France is obviously on everybody's mind in the Top 14, player, coach, everyone French. You can't just completely discard and forget about national selection if you're some Top 14 owner/coach, it's as much an element of the Rugby landscape as the clubs themselves.

answered in bold.

 

[FrenchFan]

answered in bold.

no its not ridiculous. Its reality. In fairness Qatar is a bit of a long way from the reality of club rugby here....

and yes there is nothing wrong with the fact that Top14 clubs are not concerned about the results of the national team. It is not their problem. The clubs priority is their season they dont get up in the morning to sing the national anthem. The Federation is sole responsible for the national team, not the clubs. The clubs have enough with the job of surviving the Top14. Thats their focus. NOT the national side. They do ENOUGH by preparing the players and making them available for selection.
Its the whole debate around the Top14 being responsible for the poor form of the national team that is plain ridiculous. Sorry the FFR is in charge of les bleus. Up to them to fix the problem. And they are NOT doing a good job of it. The recent agreement FFR-LNR is a time bomb, it doesnt resolve anything and 2 club presidents are publicly ******* on it. Clubs will walk away from future agreements. Boudjelal will take the Federation to court if he has to, read this

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Boudjellal-passe-a-l-attaque/428597

Do you think Bouscatel and Boudjelal the presidents of the 2 biggest clubs in France and Europe worry about the national side? what are you smoking? Bouscatel just resigned from LNR.

the French team poor form has some fairly obvious reasons that escape your armchair rugby brain: the players have their allegiance to their paymaster i.e their clubs, its the clubs that stick their neck out for them, look after their pre-season preparation, pay their medical bills etc
to me the internationals look out of form and disinterested in last 6N, i believe they are poorly motivated for international duties (except maybe agst the ABs beccause they are world champions), they are also poorly coached, poorly managed with ridiculous international fixtures like 3 test games last june in NZ. Why be so obsessed of beating the ABs? lets start beating our neighbours first. The ABs will easily shove that wooden spoon back up your arse any day

sorry le XV de France is NOT on everybodys mind over here. U ou are not part of a club, u dont play, never mind coach, u dont go to Top14 games, so u definitely do NOT speak for the majority. People support their club team first, the national team is secondary. I am not ignorant of les bleus. Theyre just not as important as u think. The signing of Wilkinson or Habana is doing far more to promote the game here on TV and with kids than watching les bleus 5 straight defeats agst the ABs. It is what it is

 

[Big Ewis]

definitely an attitude there buddy, don't know if you'll maybe see it this time...
anyways:
some strange accusations and getting all excited.
I don't care if I speak for a majority, and never said I did lol, take it easy.
The XV de France is obviously a priority, are you telling me the age old 6N and rivalries against England and Wales, test series against the AB, Wallabies or Springboks, and then the World Cup are just something of banality that aren't all that important after all ? And "the club comes first" ?? pfff..
We have a role as France, les Bleus, in the international game. Everybody will say France on their day are a special, exclusive phenomenon and have achieved things no side ever has. We're an anomaly, if there ever was one on the international Rugby scene, and the one side many agree to say is well over due a RWC ***le.

Clubs are great too, no worries. It doesn't have to be one or the other, although for me yes France over any club, but that's another topic really.

And the Top 14 isn't problematic ?? heh...buddy, you're asking me what I smoke but euhh...
We have no preparation time compared to other nations, no chemistry can be established, our guys play more games than ANY OTHER NATION, and there were once talks about a Top 16. The Top 14 is turning into a fuccking international circus of stars, the biggest business on the planet for the sport, it's eating up the industry and sucking in talent from all 4 corners of the world because of money, money, nothing but the money. We have so many internationals our referees have to learn English more and more these days and use it, so many intl's we were struggling to get ONE decent flyhalf out because there are like 80% from abroad.
Our guys are worn out and can't possibly look like a professional team out there, committing strange mistakes especially on attack and looking like a bunch of mercenaries BECAUSE they have no time together BECAUSE of the Top 14 and its crazy calendar - the players themselves (Machenaud, Picamoles, Dusautoir...) have time and time again criticized openly in interviews.

The Top 14, if not stopped, was going to make those players *exclusively* club players with little to no time for international duties.

And my being away from France won't make those points less real and toxic, you'll have to lean onto another template-argument.

And some of your notions are plain bizarre...France, a Tier 1 European powerhouse, has and will in the foreseeable *always* play SH nations in both the summer and autumn tours.....why would they stop just this year lol ??...
would you've rather we played the Blacks just twice in stead of 3.., I don't........
aahhh anyways.

And hey I left a message on your page...could you at least acknowledge it and tell me you don't care to answer ?....something ?

 

[FrenchFan]

I dont havve an attitude. I have a differernt opinion. You must be surrounded by people with an attitude in that case, poor Big Ewis, not coping well arent you
At least my opinion is well informed. Its based on the reality of the game i have played, now coach, and being a club supporter.

No the top 14 is NOT turning into a circus of highly paid stars. Only the top 5 can afford the big stars. That leaves another 9 teams competing. A team like Grenoble are currently 7 in the league they dont have any star. You couldnt come up with one name if u had to. And their budget is smaller than most. So there is room for everybody. Some rely on their rugby academy or average overseas players bcse they cant afford big signings. Again this is the reality. Its not a circus, its an exciting competition and this season is everybit as exciting if not more. Clearly you do NOT follow this competition. Youre not very credible as a rugby fan.

definitely an attitude there buddy, don't know if you'll maybe see it this time...
anyways:
some strange accusations and getting all excited.
I don't care if I speak for a majority, and never said I did lol, take it easy.
The XV de France is obviously a priority, are you telling me the age old 6N and rivalries against England and Wales, test series against the AB, Wallabies or Springboks, and then the World Cup are just something of banality that aren't all that important after all ? And "the club comes first" ?? pfff..
We have a role as France, les Bleus, in the international game. Everybody will say France on their day are a special, exclusive phenomenon and have achieved things no side ever has. We're an anomaly, if there ever was one on the international Rugby scene, and the one side many agree to say is well over due a RWC ***le.

>>Les bleus are an anomaly? you are an even bigger one


And some of your notions are plain bizarre...France, a Tier 1 European powerhouse, has and will in the foreseeable *always* play SH nations in both the summer and autumn tours.....why would they stop just this year lol ??...
would you've rather we played the Blacks just twice in stead of 3.., I don't........
aahhh anyways.

>>My point about SH tour is not bizarre. Its been a source of problems for a long time. Where have you been? Those tours like the last one in NZ are an absurdity because they come at the very end of an exhausting Top14 season, the last first test was scheduled BEFORE the Top14 final, some players like Remi Tales of Castres last year had to travel 20hours after a championship final to play the ABs in the 2nd test. This is ridiculous. And this is a perfect example of the stupidity of the people at FFR who organise those tours. This is what i mean by dysfunctitonal. I didnt say they should stop these tours just this year. They should scrap them. Yes playing the ABs once during the AI is more than enough. I dont share your obsession with playing and beating the ABs.

 

[Big Ewis]

:rofl: oh, dear...

who said I was obsessed about France playing and beating the All-Blacks ?

In deed Clermont, Toulouse, Toulon, Montpellier, Stade Francais, Racing Metro, Castres are the ones with the big big names. That's about half the league there. You mention Grenoble being 7th, wow, isn't that a great rank for them, they must be very pleased. I'm sure if you were to speak to the players, the coaches and then owners, they'll tell you they're absolutely thrilled the Top 14 has turned into a pool of sharks, cunning, money-seeking and completely oblivious to anything but personal success. Money money money, where the big bucks are at my friend, the way of the world. Nothin but the green bills.

I'm sure teams like Brive, Grenoble, UBB and co. are singing odes daily to how tremendous a competition the Top 14 has become where some team comprises of more international stars than some Tier 1 nations.

There's a strange sense of juvenile immaturity in your posts, and I do find it hard to believe you're a "grownup" who even coaches. It's one thing to have knowledge of the game and its realities, it's another to see clearly through those...

As I've been saying for a while now, I hope Toulon can one day afford to buy the integral All-Blacks side altogether. Why not, seriously. At this point, hey, go right ahead.
Habana, Castrogiovanni, Botha, Ali Williams, Wilko, Lobbe, Masoe, Rossouw, Michalak, Bastareaud, Giteau, Mermoz, Palisson, Drew Mitchell..
Go on, add Ben Smith, Kieran Read, Ben Franks, Retallick, Whitelock and Messam. Why not ? What's the problem with that ?

 

[FrenchFan]

:rofl: oh, dear...

who said I was obsessed about France playing and beating the All-Blacks ?

>>once per year is enough. The current season structure doesnt allow for more. The summer tours are a mistake, They are scheduled by ill-advised clowns at the expense of player welfare, you dont get it do you


In deed Clermont, Toulouse, Toulon, Montpellier, Stade Francais, Racing Metro, Castres are the ones with the big big names. That's about half the league there. You mention Grenoble being 7th, wow, isn't that a great rank for them, they must be very pleased. I'm sure if you were to speak to the players, the coaches and then owners, they'll tell you they're absolutely thrilled the Top 14 has turned into a pool of sharks, cunning, money-seeking and completely oblivious to anything but personal success. Money money money, where the big bucks are at my friend, the way of the world. Nothin but the green bills.

>>you dnot know what these people in the clubs you mentioned actually say or think, you dont talk to rugby players, fans, coaches, anyone connected to rugby. you dont understand what youre talkin about. You do NOT follow the Top 14. Why slag a competition you know nohting about. I told u, u are not credible.
Money is in the Top14 and its there to stay. Pro rugby cant develop without it. Its good for the game. It brings in the stars, attracts audiences to stadium, kids to rugby academy (my son is one of them). I have said that the likes of Toulon with their stars are having a huge positive impact now on grass-root rugby. Ive said before that Toulon do a lot more to attract people to rugby today than the national team and their wooden spoon. You have nothing to say to that.
Im describing the reality as I see it here on the ground. The only think u know about rugby is what you read on the internet.

Stick to the 5 french games in 6N, thats all you know[/B]

I'm sure teams like Brive, Grenoble, UBB and co. are singing odes daily to how tremendous a competition the Top 14 has become where some team comprises of more international stars than some Tier 1 nations.

>>Not true. These teams have fought their way to the Top14. They had to earn the right to be there so they are happy to be where they are. I dont hear them whinging about money like you do. They have a smaller budget, no stars and yet they take it up to the big guys every weekend. Thats their attitude on and off the ptich, not the one you are describing. But u dont follow the Top14 so you wouldnt know that !
Brive were promoted last season. They are bloody proud to be in the Top 14, If you had spoken with any Brive fans at least once, you would know that.

There's a strange sense of juvenile immaturity in your posts, and I do find it hard to believe you're a "grownup" who even coaches. It's one thing to have knowledge of the game and its realities, it's another to see clearly through those...

>>Im glad u find something in my post, i cant find anything in yours. Its just blabla all the way. And im glad theres something hem 'juvenile' in my posts as well, its the youth still breathing in me ) I take it as a compliment. It must be coaching youngsters, but here again, you wouldnt know anything abuot that.


As I've been saying for a while now, I hope Toulon can one day afford to buy the integral All-Blacks side altogether. Why not, seriously. At this point, hey, go right ahead.
Habana, Castrogiovanni, Botha, Ali Williams, Wilko, Lobbe, Masoe, Rossouw, Michalak, Bastareaud, Giteau, Mermoz, Palisson, Drew Mitchell..
Go on, add Ben Smith, Kieran Read, Ben Franks, Retallick, Whitelock and Messam. Why not ? What's the problem with that ?

>>wow great thinker u are

 

[nickdnz]

FrenchFan seems to epitimize why the France national team continually underperform.

Firstly - saying people support Toulon over a wooden-spoon France, doesn't seem to acknowledge the correlation between France's failures and Toulon's success. When you have a league which buys overseas talent in key positions, plays a ridiculously long season and has little regard for managing players for a national team - of course the French national team will struggle.

I find it funny you claiming the that the current international calander, one which every other country manages to succeed in - is a cause for bad player welfare over a league which plays more professional matches than any other. Saying that the current French system is necessary and "pro rugby can't develop without it" is also ridiculious as every other professional league manages to thrive with less games than the French one.

You are living in a dreamland if you think the Top 14 is an even playing field. You don't feel think that the lower teams who lose their star players to sit on a team like Toulon's bench (actually bad example as Toulon has barely any local players), don't feel hard done by?

 

[smartcooky]

Those people who think Club rugby is the "be-all-and-end-all" of rugby, and that international rugby is unimportant fail to understand is that without international rugby, you don't have a game, or any way to spread the fans base for the game as a whole.

The fact is that people outside of the 14 cities/areas involved in the Top 14 or the 16 involved in the Pro-D2 don't give a fat rats arse about any team. Does anyone in Verdun really care how Clermont- Auvergne went on Saturday? Are there hundreds of Montpellier fans in Bar-le-Duc or Charleville-Mézières or Strasbourg just falling over themselves to buy tickets?

Of course not.

International rugby allows EVERYONE in the country to feel invested in the team, Club rugby only allows supporters of clubs to be invested in their clubs, and if people don't have a top flight club in their area, they have co connection.

This is why Club rugby will never be a substitute for the international game, and why Club owners who try to erode the international game are in effect eroding their own game. Anyone who thinks there will ever be the kind of money and fan support in rugby that Football enjoys is living in La-La Land. We'll never ever come close!

 

[Big Ewis]

wow, that dude is worse than you nick !!
geeeeeeez !!

And about Toulon, not such a bad example as a solid center like Mermoz or a solid winger like Alexis Palisson never see the light of day while Bastareaud has been forgotten to an almost comical degree in stretches...and they all stay in Toulon still, because despite no playing time, those guys want a nice CV at the end of their professional run. They want a Bouclier de Brennus (french ***le) or a H Cup, like any pro athlete they just want to win...
Hence, the tragic situation.

smartycooky:
well I hadn't ever thought about it in that way...all I can say is that clearly a ton of French fans like their Bleus. France isn't divided enough or so culturally different in separate regions that one area only considers their local domestic team and doesn't give a shhit about the French international team...

But on the other hand as long as there's club life, that's all that matters. If int'l French Rugby came to a halt, it would be mourned and all but not a full-scale disaster. If club Rugby stopped, that would really be a tragedy. Imagining Toulouse with the Stade, the whole Var department without their Toulon...

So I'd say there's a more "direct", nostalgic/emotional relation between the fans and their domestic pro representation than with the French XV.

 

[FrenchFan]

FrenchFan seems to epitimize why the France national team continually underperform.

Firstly - saying people support Toulon over a wooden-spoon France, doesn't seem to acknowledge the correlation between France's failures and Toulon's success. When you have a league which buys overseas talent in key positions, plays a ridiculously long season and has little regard for managing players for a national team - of course the French national team will struggle.
>>>>NOT what i said. I said that the success of Toulon as a club and European champion is having a positive effect in french rugby because it is attracting interest for the game of rugby. Thats also true in Toulouse Clermont regions.Im describing what I see here. But you dont live here, how would you know?
So my point is that a club like Toulon can do more as much and more for the development and attractiveness of the game among the general public and kids, than the national side does. Also big clubs are well capable of promoting the game abroad with more impact than the Federation can with the national side.
Look at the success of the game btw Toulouse and Clermont organised in Hong Kong last year. The french team has never played in Asia. There you go.

I find it funny you claiming the that the current international calander, one which every other country manages to succeed in - is a cause for bad player welfare over a league which plays more professional matches than any other. Saying that the current French system is necessary and "pro rugby can't develop without it" is also ridiculious as every other professional league manages to thrive with less games than the French one.
>>Im glad my posts are bringing some derision into your life. U sound like u need a laugh.

I said money is necessary and yes Pro rugby cant develop without it. The current season structure can evolve and it will. There is talk of a Top12 that would replace the current one. So the system is not stuck where its at. And i never said i was against a reduction of the number of games. where did you read that in my posts? i am all for the proposed Top 12 which would translate effectively into LESS games. I also think it might be imposed byt the economics of the game and the recession in Europe.
A top12 would raise the standards of the league by concentrating it. But this needs to be done to suit the clubs not with the national team as a priority. Your problem is that you want to make changes in french rugby so that the national team becomes competitive again. Thats not going to happen. Clubs look after their own interest. They are not here to develop the national team. French clubs are not structured around serving the national side.Get used to it.

You are living in a dreamland if you think the Top 14 is an even playing field. You don't feel think that the lower teams who lose their star players to sit on a team like Toulon's bench (actually bad example as Toulon has barely any local players), don't feel hard done by?

>>who says a Pro sports league has to be an even playing field? where did you get that idea. There is no such thing. In NZ mabye. You need travel. Where did u see any form of equity in soccer or other Pro sport? should the clubs all start the season with the same number of inernationals, same budget, we know the answer to that one. You either want compete or you dont. Some Top 14 clubs with no star and small budget are doing very well like Grenoble. They are not bleating about money, You are the one living in Lalaland.

Those people who think Club rugby is the "be-all-and-end-all" of rugby, and that international rugby is unimportant fail to understand is that without international rugby, you don't have a game, or any way to spread the fans base for the game as a whole.

The fact is that people outside of the 14 cities/areas involved in the Top 14 or the 16 involved in the Pro-D2 don't give a fat rats arse about any team. Does anyone in Verdun really care how Clermont- Auvergne went on Saturday? Are there hundreds of Montpellier fans in Bar-le-Duc or Charleville-Mézières or Strasbourg just falling over themselves to buy tickets?

Of course not. >>Sorry not true. Many french fans living outside a rugby region support a big club like Toulouse, Toulon Clermont. I know plenty of them. Including many provinciaux living in Paris who hate the 2 Parisian teams. There you go. You stand corrected on that one )

wow, that dude is worse than you nick !!
geeeeeeez !!

And about Toulon, not such a bad example as a solid center like Mermoz or a solid winger like Alexis Palisson never see the light of day while Bastareaud has been forgotten to an almost comical degree in stretches...and they all stay in Toulon still, because despite no playing time, those guys want a nice CV at the end of their professional run. They want a Bouclier de Brennus (french ***le) or a H Cup, like any pro athlete they just want to win...
Hence, the tragic situation.

>>well Mermoz hasnt been setting the world on fire around himself, so he gets to stay on the bench. Thats ok.
OMG they want to win a french ***le and the HCup!? how dare they. they want to win, and thats tragic?! What else are they supposed to do other than win trophies. You are tragic.