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France's fall from the top

This is hypothetical, but if the SH teams were to play as many games as the NH teams during the same period as the NH teams, can you honestly see SA and NZ teams being loaded with NH players?? I can't. We would rather pick our own guys and try to find the next diamond-in-the-rough.

If those teams were clubs, backed by individuals/ran their own finances independently to the SARU then you'd try, and fail due to the strength of the pound/euro.

SH teams do whats best for themselves within their pre-defined structures, NH teams do it within theirs. Again i re-iterate comparing how SA & NZ et al work is utterly pointless, because it is not a model that is in effect in England and France.
 
But you are forgetting about the Vodacom Cup and the Currie Cup, does those matches not count at all??? Each system has it's positives and negatives. And yes, I agree that players in the NH play more games in SA, but that is beside the point.

This is hypothetical, but if the SH teams were to play as many games as the NH teams during the same period as the NH teams, can you honestly see SA and NZ teams being loaded with NH players?? I can't. We would rather pick our own guys and try to find the next diamond-in-the-rough.

I think we might be missing each other's points.
 
This seemed the most suitable thread ***le given France's poor showing in South Africa. Apologies for it being old.

Noves given the dreaded vote of confidence. It reads to me like Laporte is sharpening his knives. 3 wins out of 4 in November or Noves may be gone. One of the games is NZ so it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for manoeuvre.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/nova¨s-backed-by-laporte/
 
According to TRP, Noves has been asked to pick a squad of 45 players in a similar set-up to England's 'EPS (Elite Player Squad)'. The trouble is that the 45 isn't as strong as it ought to be.

I admire France's stance on non-French born players but the likes of Chouly and Doussain are never going to take them forward.

With the T14 being awash with foreigners and sugar daddy owners like Altrad, the France job is going to be a massive challenge for anyone.
 
3 wins out of 4 in November or Noves may be gone. One of the games is NZ so it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for manoeuvre.
They're playing not 1 but 2 tests v NZ. 4 tests in total. Great money spinners for the union. But as sporting contests? They will fill the stadium with schools and corporate heads while the rugby fans save their money for the league.

They will win the test against Japan. Lose to NZ and SA. And Noves will be out.
 
Effectively saying Noves has to win a match against NZ is pretty laughable by Laporte, even if France did have a poor series in Africa. I think South African results in the Rugby Championship will put a more favourable perspective on the dismal French performances.
 
From what I understand there are three definite matches:

Nov 11 v NZ at the Stade de France
Nov 18 v Boks at SDF
Nov 25 v Japan at Lille

Laporte wants a second match against NZ awaiting confirmation, but apparently on a Tuesday in a provincial stadium (Marseille?).
Lunacy!
 
From what I understand there are three definite matches:

Nov 11 v NZ at the Stade de France
Nov 18 v Boks at SDF
Nov 25 v Japan at Lille

Laporte wants a second match against NZ awaiting confirmation, but apparently on a Tuesday in a provincial stadium (Marseille?).
Lunacy!


New Zealand are playing

Nov 4 v Barbarians
Nov 11 v France
Nov 18 v Scotland
Nov 25 v Wales

I doubt the NZRU will agree to a fifth EOYT Match
 
So, what now FrenchFan. Does France look for a foreign coach? Robbie Deans perhaps?
Alas it wouldn't be enough even though that's still a good start. The main coach has to be surrounded by a strong team. I don't see what Bru brings to les Bleus as of now, the forwards are abysmal (and the backs are too...). Add to that the appalling level in Top 14 (foreigners aren't the only issue albeit being the tip of the iceberg): Players aren't individually skilled enough to beat their counterparts. They don't work as a team and don't benefit from a strong leadership, so no wonder they don't know where the ball is going from one phase to another.

Players are slow, they look lost on the field, they basically learned to forget what made them so threatening when playing 1st XV rugby at school or college. Rebuilding Rugby in France would require getting rid of that Top 14 joke of a competition and adopting the same provincial system as in New Zealand. First and foremost, we should get rid of these billionaires and "benefactors" who invest their money in french rugby clubs as if they were investing cash on the stock market. This is utter nonsense. It has never helped develop grassroots rugby, these guys only gain dividends and the rest is used to recruit foreigners.
 
Alas it wouldn't be enough even though that's still a good start. The main coach has to be surrounded by a strong team. I don't see what Bru brings to les Bleus as of now, the forwards are abysmal (and the backs are too...). Add to that the appalling level in Top 14 (foreigners aren't the only issue albeit being the tip of the iceberg): Players aren't individually skilled enough to beat their counterparts. They don't work as a team and don't benefit from a strong leadership, so no wonder they don't know where the ball is going from one phase to another.

Players are slow, they look lost on the field, they basically learned to forget what made them so threatening when playing 1st XV rugby at school or college. Rebuilding Rugby in France would require getting rid of that Top 14 joke of a competition and adopting the same provincial system as in New Zealand. First and foremost, we should get rid of these billionaires and "benefactors" who invest their money in french rugby clubs as if they were investing cash on the stock market. This is utter nonsense. It has never helped develop grassroots rugby, these guys only gain dividends and the rest is used to recruit foreigners.

From my observations of French domestic rugby (and admittedly, I don't see a lot of it) it seems to me that somewhere along the line, flair and enterprise is being coached out of the players. The last time the All Blacks lost at Eden Park was 1994, that match that was mostly famous for "The try from the end of the World", and apart from the 1999 RWC semi-final (when whatever the French team did turned to pure gold), we simply do not see that kind of flair from them any more. I haven't seen it in Top 14, the RCC or from Les Bleus in the Six Nations.
 
Who needs flair when you can have muscles? What could be better than bish bash bosh? Avoiding the players, passing with skill?

They do have the players, but obviously they don't want to play the game any more.
 
Who needs flair when you can have muscles? What could be better than bish bash bosh? Avoiding the players, passing with skill?

They do have the players, but obviously they don't want to play the game any more.
Yup, if they fancy a slow game with big muscular men bumping into each other and nothing else, they should invent a new sport and leave rugby alone. Rugby's not the joke that's being played in the top 14 competition.
 
Yup, if they fancy a slow game with big muscular men bumping into each other and nothing else....

...then they'll get another 62-13 like dicking from someone the next RWC because the type of game they fancy is ancient history.
 
I haven't followed the recent matches so no idea what sort of teams were put out etc. Good points on the Top 14, and given that started on 20th August I suspect most of the players are simply sick of the sight of a rugby ball and just want to drink beer on the beach.

All is not lost though. Over the last season, they only lost to Aus by 2, NZ by 5 and Eng by 3. Any of those could have turned on the single bounce of a ball and would have us looking at things in a different light.

No doubt that there are underlying problems, but equally no doubt there's loads of talent waiting to be harnessed.
 

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