Irish Summer Tests

[munstermuffin]

The best game will be against the Baa-Baas when you have scenario IF Munster reach Rabo final then Leinster, Ulster and Munster's frontline guys should be rested for that game so that leaves reserves from 3 provinces and Connacht

 

[mulldog]

The best game will be against the Baa-Baas when you have scenario IF Munster reach Rabo final then Leinster, Ulster and Munster's frontline guys should be rested for that game so that leaves reserves from 3 provinces and Connacht

The Baa-Baas game is on the 29th, the Pro12 final is scheduled for the 26th/27th May and the Heinkein Cup final is the 19th.

I'd imagine if its a Leinster/Munster final in the Pro12 their match day squad's will be unavailable. Kidney is also certain to rest who he considers the front line Irish players for Ulster, most likely the injury prone Ferris, Best, Trimble and maybe Court.

There are a few guys who have showed good form throughout the season and of late who may have already secured their place on the plane. So players such as Chris Henry, Dan Tuohy, Paddy Wallace and Darren Cave may not play against the Baa-Baas. (Personally I think Kidney will play all of them maybe with the exception of Chris Henry who has been on great form throughout the year anyway and has picked up a few knocks and bruises towards the end of the season - so needs the rest.)

Possible Ireland XV v Barbarians:

1. Brett Wilkinson
2. Adrian Flavin
3. Ronan Loughney
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Mike McCarthy
6. John Muldoon
7. Dominic Ryan/Chris Henry
8. Rhys Ruddock
9. Paul Marshall
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Craig Gilroy
12. Paddy Wallace
13. Darren Cave
14. Tiernan O'Halloran
15. Gavin Duffy

 

[osullie6]

Looks like fitzgerald's out for the summer tour.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0504/1224315624461.html

 

[big ginger 8]

Terrible news for Leinster and Ireland.

 

[Feicarsinn]

What with the under 20's and the possibility of Leinster & Munster being in the Rabo final, the BaaBaa's game will be a tad farcical. What's most annoying about it is the fact that this should have been the game to give Madigan, Zebo, etc. a go. The more I look at this tour, the more unhappy I am about it. Instead of playing the AB's three times as well as the Barbarians, we could have had two test matches and two games against ITM/Super Rugby sides, which would have been far more beneficial.

It also looks like POC may miss the tour. With him, Fitz and Bowe all out, that in my mind is three starters out of the team. Bah. Here's my revisied, worst case scenario tour party and team for the Barbarians game, with no Munster or Leinster players:

XXII for the Barbarians:

15) Duffy
14) Trimble
13) Cave
12) Wallace
11) Gilroy
10) Jackson (He can head off to the JWC straight after)
9) Marshall
8) Muldoon
7) Henry
6) Ferris
5) Tuohy
4) McCarthy
3) Fitzpatrick
2) Best
1) Court

Subs: Loughney, Flavin, Caldwell, Wilson, Murphy, Spence, Griffin, O'Halloran.

Didn't that make for depressing reading? This game could well produce a lot of 'where are they now?' type caps, if it is indeed a capped international. Of course, Leinster and Munster might lets some of the guys not involved in the match squads play, which could give us the like of Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney and Fionn Carr.

Touring party:

Forwards: Best, Cronin, Sherry, Ross, Healy, Court, Hagan, Fitzpatrick, Toner, Tuohy, Ryan, O'Callaghan, O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry, Dom Ryan (shoot me)
Backs: Marshall, Reddan, Murray, Sexton, O'Gara, Madigan, O'Driscoll, D'arcy, Cave, McFadden, Trimble, Earls, Kearney, Gilroy, Zebo, Jones

 

[osullie6]

It also looks like POC may miss the tour. With him, Fitz and Bowe all out, that in my mind is three starters out of the team.

Really? I don't think Kidney would have picked Fitzgerald over Earls. When I heard Bowe was out I thought Kearney, Trimble and Earls would have been pretty much nailed on as the back three for the tests. Admittedly Earls does see his future at 13, and he has suffered as a player from being used as a utility back, but with O'Driscoll back I don't think there would be any question, rightly or wrongly, that Kidney would have left Earls out of the starting team.

 

[big ginger 8]

What with the under 20's and the possibility of Leinster & Munster being in the Rabo final, the BaaBaa's game will be a tad farcical. What's most annoying about it is the fact that this should have been the game to give Madigan, Zebo, etc. a go. The more I look at this tour, the more unhappy I am about it. Instead of playing the AB's three times as well as the Barbarians, we could have had two test matches and two games against ITM/Super Rugby sides, which would have been far more beneficial.

It also looks like POC may miss the tour. With him, Fitz and Bowe all out, that in my mind is three starters out of the team. Bah. Here's my revisied, worst case scenario tour party and team for the Barbarians game, with no Munster or Leinster players:

XXII for the Barbarians:

15) Duffy
14) Trimble
13) Cave
12) Wallace
11) Gilroy
10) Jackson (He can head off to the JWC straight after)
9) Marshall
8) Muldoon
7) Henry
6) Ferris
5) Tuohy
4) McCarthy
3) Fitzpatrick
2) Best
1) Court

Subs: Loughney, Flavin, Caldwell, Wilson, Murphy, Spence, Griffin, O'Halloran.

Didn't that make for depressing reading? This game could well produce a lot of 'where are they now?' type caps, if it is indeed a capped international. Of course, Leinster and Munster might lets some of the guys not involved in the match squads play, which could give us the like of Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney and Fionn Carr.

Touring party:

Forwards: Best, Cronin, Sherry, Ross, Healy, Court, Hagan, Fitzpatrick, Toner, Tuohy, Ryan, O'Callaghan, O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip, O'Mahony, Henry, Dom Ryan (shoot me)
Backs: Marshall, Reddan, Murray, Sexton, O'Gara, Madigan, O'Driscoll, D'arcy, Cave, McFadden, Trimble, Earls, Kearney, Gilroy, Zebo, Jones

That's not exactly a bad starting team for the Baa-Baa's loads of them are already capped and 5 of them are in with a good shout of starting vs N.Z. I'd say the team for that match will be a lot weaker.

 

[munster2010]

Dare I say Kideny should just bite the bullet and through a few of the younger lads in at the deep end? The likes of paddy jackson and the likes of madigan, would it be a bit much giving them their 1st or 2nd caps or whatever their on against the world champs. I personally don't see the problem with a baptism of fire. Its worked for the likes of conor murray or peter o'mahony, it gives them the experience needed maybe. We have three tests aginst them, never once have we beaten the all blacks, i don't see why he shouldn't just go for it, its not exactly like we have a glittering record to up hold. What has he to lose, maybe bar his job?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Dare I say Kideny should just bite the bullet and through a few of the younger lads in at the deep end? The likes of paddy jackson and the likes of madigan, would it be a bit much giving them their 1st or 2nd caps or whatever their on against the world champs. I personally don't see the problem with a baptism of fire. Its worked for the likes of conor murray or peter o'mahony, it gives them the experience needed maybe. We have three tests aginst them, never once have we beaten the all blacks, i don't see why he shouldn't just go for it, its not exactly like we have a glittering record to up hold. What has he to lose, maybe bar his job?

The same Conor Murray who has been cack since the World Cup? With regard to O'Mahony, there's a difference between being brought on as a sub in the six nations and starting New Zealand against the All Blacks, no? Also, while O'Mahony has had a very good season for Munster, he didn't really impress in the Ireland jersey. Not particularly bad, I just remember him doing anything. I'd have henry ahead of him.

It doesn't matter in any case, the IRFU didn't give Kidney the chance to blood players with this ridiculous tour schedule. I'd love to give the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, O'Mahony, Marshall and so on a few midweek games to prove that they're good enough, but alas, that's not how things work in the IRFU.

 

[monkeypigeon]

The same Conor Murray who has been cack since the World Cup? With regard to O'Mahony, there's a difference between being brought on as a sub in the six nations and starting New Zealand against the All Blacks, no? Also, while O'Mahony has had a very good season for Munster, he didn't really impress in the Ireland jersey. Not particularly bad, I just remember him doing anything. I'd have henry ahead of him.

It doesn't matter in any case, the IRFU didn't give Kidney the chance to blood players with this ridiculous tour schedule. I'd love to give the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, O'Mahony, Marshall and so on a few midweek games to prove that they're good enough, but alas, that's not how things work in the IRFU.

Connor Murray who was man of the match last night and outplayed Marshall comfortably.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Connor Murray who was man of the match last night and outplayed Marshall comfortably.

I knew some one was going to come along and say that.

He played well last night no doubt, but you can't deny he's had a disappointing season. Over the last 8 months or so, I'd say Marshall has shaded it between them.

 

[Draggs]

I knew some one was going to come along and say that.

He played well last night no doubt, but you can't deny he's had a disappointing season. Over the last 8 months or so, I'd say Marshall has shaded it between them.

You know what you've done now...

 

[psychic duck]

I think Ireland should start Eoin Reddan, he seems to be firing at Leinster at the minute

do Irish fans agree?

 

[Feicarsinn]

I think Ireland should start Eoin Reddan, he seems to be firing at Leinster at the minute

do Irish fans agree?

Well yes, most would agree with you. Ireland play at a noticeably higher tempo when Reddan is on the field, for the simple reason that he's a quicker and better passer than Murray. I still don't understand why he was dropped in favour of Murray at the World Cup truth be told.

 

[osullie6]

I think Ireland should start Eoin Reddan, he seems to be firing at Leinster at the minute

do Irish fans agree?

Well yes, most would agree with you. Ireland play at a noticeably higher tempo when Reddan is on the field, for the simple reason that he's a quicker and better passer than Murray. I still don't understand why he was dropped in favour of Murray at the World Cup truth be told.

I don't necessarily agree.

It's unquestionable that his pass is better but even Leinster usually start Boss when they're playing big matches away from home.
Reddan's lack of physicality is a big downside.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

My 30 man touring party:
Backs (14): Rob Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'arcy, Paddy Wallace, Jonny Sexton, Ronan O'Gara, Ian Madigan, Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan, Paul Marshall
Forwards (16): Cian Healy, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick, Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Mike Sherry, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Mike McCarthy, Ryan Caldwell, Kevin McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony
Standby: Gavin Duffy, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Isaac Boss, Ronan Loughney, Devin Toner, John Muldoon

Bath 1
Connacht 1
Leinster 13
Munster 7
Ulster 8

I really don't rate Declan Fitzpatrick as an international prop but he's scrummaging decently. I just can't bring myself to rating Ronan Loughney who's had his ass handed to him pretty much every time I've seen him. Second row is a bit of a wasteland with Paul O'Connell possibly out. If O'Connell is fit, Caldwell drops out. I'd give Stephen Ferris the summer off to get himself fully fit. The man's playing on one leg at the moment. Kevin McLaughlin drops out in place of Ferris if the Ulsterman travels.

 

[osullie6]

My 30 man touring party:
Backs (14): Rob Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'arcy, Paddy Wallace, Jonny Sexton, Ronan O'Gara, Ian Madigan, Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan, Paul Marshall
Forwards (16): Cian Healy, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick, Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Mike Sherry, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Mike McCarthy, Ryan Caldwell, Kevin McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony
Standby: Gavin Duffy, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Isaac Boss, Ronan Loughney, Devin Toner, John Muldoon

My only quibble would be Caldwell ahead of Toner in the pecking order at lock but that's it really.

I'd also be very surprised if O'Callaghan wasn't on the plane based on Kidney's previous selections, look out for Tomás O'Leary as well.

It is fairly depressing to think of all the players who should be tried on this tour who won't be. I know some have been mentioned but Cave, O'Malley and Kearney the Younger etc. would have been in with a shout as well. Even if the likes of Madigan, Marshall, Tuohy McLaughlin, Henry, O'Mahony and Gilroy (who based on your squad are players you think should go) actually go they're going to get next to no game time. When you look at the way the IRFU and the Irish management handle player development I'm amazed that we have any players under thirty on our national team at all.

 

[Peat]

I'm not being funny, but if Murray couldn't look good behind a dominant pack at Thomond Park against a team whose mantra was probably "No more injuries", then that's a reason to put him down; I never want to be too harsh on a man who does his job and does it well, but those aren't the sort of matches where you should jump up and down screaming "Pick him Kidney!" if he goes well. I am firmly in the pro-Reddan camp (unless you play England) - sure he's less physical but the difference in the backs is noticeable. Particularly with Sexton. Sexton's probably the best fly-half in the HC; he's a little 'meh' at international level. I'd have thought getting Sexton to play to his HC level (and D'Arcy if possible) would have been Kidney's first priority. It's not even like Murray's that physical. He's no Mike Philips, and I'd probably actually pick Isaac Boss myself if I wanted a physical Irish scrum-half. The Conor Murray love-in mystifies me. A fine prospect, yes, a fine international player, not yet, and he's actually a much better player when he gets in there quick and shifts the ball rather than thinking he's a big strong boy.

Snoopy - there's sod all point in sending both D'Arcy and Wallace if you've got three fly-halves; keep one at home, send Cave/Gilroy/O'Malley/Jones. Or Duffy I suppose.

 

[osullie6]

I'm not being funny, but if Murray couldn't look good behind a dominant pack at Thomond Park against a team whose mantra was probably "No more injuries", then that's a reason to put him down; I never want to be too harsh on a man who does his job and does it well, but those aren't the sort of matches where you should jump up and down screaming "Pick him Kidney!" if he goes well. I am firmly in the pro-Reddan camp (unless you play England) - sure he's less physical but the difference in the backs is noticeable. Particularly with Sexton. Sexton's probably the best fly-half in the HC; he's a little 'meh' at international level. I'd have thought getting Sexton to play to his HC level (and D'Arcy if possible) would have been Kidney's first priority. It's not even like Murray's that physical. He's no Mike Philips, and I'd probably actually pick Isaac Boss myself if I wanted a physical Irish scrum-half. The Conor Murray love-in mystifies me. A fine prospect, yes, a fine international player, not yet, and he's actually a much better player when he gets in there quick and shifts the ball rather than thinking he's a big strong boy.

Point taken, but I think there's more to getting the best out of Sexton than just selecting Reddan. Sexton looks excellent in the Heineken Cup when Boss plays at scrum half as well.

My point is more that if Leinster prefer to play Boss in away games for added physicality why should Ireland play Reddan in what are going to be incredibly physical and intense tests in New Zealand. Given the way Richie Gray ran over Reddan during the Six Nations I'd be nervous about playing him against a team that are going to have far more destructive runners than Scotland have.

I'm not saying I think Murray should be nailed on to start, but I don't think Reddan should be either. I also think Murray's performance last night was encouraging, but a consistent improvement on his form up to now is definitely needed if he wants to cement a starting spot in the team.

 

[irelandfan123]

Peter stringer is being overlooked and if you complain about age then you should have a look at some squads picked, they include O'Callaghan, O'Connell, O'Gara, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy. Strings is playing some fantastic rugby at newcastle, he should at least be ahead of O'Leary.

I'm gunna get grilled for this and I know it....