Pool 1 (Glasgow, Leicester, Munster, Racing Metro)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Leicester Tigers (v Glasgow Warriors, Welford Road, Saturday 5.30pm)
15 Mathew Tait
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham
12 Jack Roberts
11 Tom Brady
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs
1 Greg Bateman
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Ed Slater
5 Mike Fitzgerald
6 Mike Williams
7 Lachlan McCaffrey
8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements
16 Harry Thacker
17 Ellis Genge
18 Pat Cilliers
19 Dom Barrow
20 Will Evans
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Matt Smith

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Or took advantage of all the press and now refs will be watching more closer to antics like that. As has been said Murray wasn't rattled. This is a smart move as it is raises the anti on refs to protect. If you watched you'd see he wasn't rattled and stayed very composed.
But equally it is dangerous.

For us Saturday Earls looking very very doubtful that I'd nearly say he's out

Am I the only one in the country who thinks what Glasgow did was neither illegal nor any less dangerous than what goes on elsewhere on the pitch? Hitting the standing leg is most likely to cause injury just before or when the player kicks tge ball which is perfectly legal, after that the foot isn't planted with the players momentum bringing his weight off his standing leg with less balance.

Its a pretty common tactic in rugby to deter a 9 from box kicking and I've had my knees targeted a lot in games that I was kicking well at 9 or 10, never have I come close to an injury despite playing on pitches a lot less firm! Put me on the end of one of those ahead of a crunching hit to the ribs or a knee or elbow hitting me in a ruck by accident!

 

[munstermuffin]

Am I the only one in the country who thinks what Glasgow did was neither illegal nor any less dangerous than what goes on elsewhere on the pitch? Hitting the standing leg is most likely to cause injury just before or when the player kicks tge ball which is perfectly legal, after that the foot isn't planted with the players momentum bringing his weight off his standing leg with less balance.

Its a pretty common tactic in rugby to deter a 9 from box kicking and I've had my knees targeted a lot in games that I was kicking well at 9 or 10, never have I come close to an injury despite playing on pitches a lot less firm! Put me on the end of one of those ahead of a crunching hit to the ribs or a knee or elbow hitting me in a ruck by accident!

Actually Mr Rolland came out saying it illegal so I'd say maybe you only 1. I think bigger issue is they were skidding along surface and gad no interest in ball at times. Think back to the Zebo hit for example.
There is no issue in going for 9 it's fact that it was diving at ankles and brings safety in to it. And the fact is when you make the hit and a guy has all his weight on that leg it enhances the chances of ligament damage hugely. Pitch doesn't come it to it as much as the fact when all the weight is on 1 leg and there is no protection then player welfare is the issue.

It was raised as I was told in a Currie Cup game a player got permanent damage from something similar. And in Top 14 it is monitored strictly. Maybe our French or S. African posters can comment there.

 

[munstermuffin]

Leicester Tigers (v Glasgow Warriors, Welford Road, Saturday 5.30pm)
15 Mathew Tait
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham
12 Jack Roberts
11 Tom Brady
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs
1 Greg Bateman
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Ed Slater
5 Mike Fitzgerald
6 Mike Williams
7 Lachlan McCaffrey
8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements
16 Harry Thacker
17 Ellis Genge
18 Pat Cilliers
19 Dom Barrow
20 Will Evans
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Matt Smith

Will Williams be phased out gradually now?

On our game. Racing have sent a good team over

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Actually Mr Rolland came out saying it illegal so I'd say maybe you only 1. I think bigger issue is they were skidding along surface and gad no interest in ball at times. Think back to the Zebo hit for example.
There is no issue in going for 9 it's fact that it was diving at ankles and brings safety in to it. And the fact is when you make the hit and a guy has all his weight on that leg it enhances the chances of ligament damage hugely. Pitch doesn't come it to it as much as the fact when all the weight is on 1 leg and there is no protection then player welfare is the issue.

It was raised as I was told in a Currie Cup game a player got permanent damage from something similar. And in Top 14 it is monitored strictly. Maybe our French or S. African posters can comment there.

Its a tackle though? Arms were wrapped and all but one of them weren't late, after the ball has been kicked the weight immediately comes off the standing leg, you're not going to criticise someone for tackling a player with the ball regardless of how many feet he's standing on.

I don't know if he's seen the incident but maybe @smartcooky could point us in the direction of the relevant laws?

 

[munstermuffin]

Its a tackle though? Arms were wrapped and all but one of them weren't late, after the ball has been kicked the weight immediately comes off the standing leg, you're not going to criticise someone for tackling a player with the ball regardless of how many feet he's standing on.

I don't know if he's seen the incident but maybe @smartcooky could point us in the direction of the relevant laws?

That's it though it's technically a grey issue as it's a dive so some interpret it as tackle off feet. Like is it a legal way of deliberately trying to injure a player. I'm speaking just from a physio side that it is dangerous

 

[smartcooky]

Its a tackle though? Arms were wrapped and all but one of them weren't late, after the ball has been kicked the weight immediately comes off the standing leg, you're not going to criticise someone for tackling a player with the ball regardless of how many feet he's standing on.

I don't know if he's seen the incident but maybe @smartcooky could point us in the direction of the relevant laws?

Without reading the whole thread, are you talking about the scenario where a player intentionally targets the knees of player standing in a tackle, or the knees of the plant foot of a player who has just kicked?

If so, there is no specific law that out Laws this. Rugby League calls it a "Cannonball Tackle" and it is illegal under their Laws. Recovering from a serious knee injury takes a long time. I have seen occasions when a cannonball tackle has ruled out a player for an entire season.

"A cannonball tackle occurs when a defender makes dangerous contact with the leg of an opponent who is already held in possession and deemed to be in a vulnerable position"

However, in RU, there is Law 10.4 (e)

[TEXTAREA]10.4 (e) Dangerous tackling. A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

Aside from the specific examples listed in that Law (stiff-arm, head high, early, late, without the ball etc) it is left open for the referee to interpret what he considers dangerous. Anything that I consider to be intent to injure I would rule as dangerous. Running shoulder-first directly into a player's knee (especially from front or side on) achieves nothing tactically that grabbing them around the ankles would not achieve, and IMO, can have no purpose other than to intentionally injure. I would penalise such a player for dangerous play. Any who don't agree, ask yourself if you would be OK with an opponent doing this to you.

 

[munstermuffin]

Without reading the whole thread, are you talking about the scenario where a player intentionally targets the knees of player standing in a tackle, or the knees of the plant foot of a player who has just kicked?

If so, there is no specific law that out Laws this. Rugby League calls it a "Cannonball Tackle" and it is illegal under their Laws. Recovering from a serious knee injury takes a long time. I have seen occasions when a cannonball tackle has ruled out a player for an entire season.

"A cannonball tackle occurs when a defender makes dangerous contact with the leg of an opponent who is already held in possession and deemed to be in a vulnerable position"

However, in RU, there is Law 10.4 (e)

[TEXTAREA]10.4 (e) Dangerous tackling. A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

Aside from the specific examples listed in that Law (stiff-arm, head high, early, late, without the ball etc) it is left open for the referee to interpret what he considers dangerous. Anything that I consider to be intent to injure I would rule as dangerous. Running shoulder-first directly into a player's knee (especially from front or side on) achieves nothing tactically that grabbing them around the ankles would not achieve, and IMO, can have no purpose other than to intentionally injure. I would penalise such a player for dangerous play. Any who don't agree, ask yourself if you would be OK with an opponent doing this to you.

That's good explanation thanks

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Will Williams be phased out gradually now?

On our game. Racing have sent a good team over

Owen got an injury against wasps, hence why he didn't feature v Racing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Without reading the whole thread, are you talking about the scenario where a player intentionally targets the knees of player standing in a tackle, or the knees of the plant foot of a player who has just kicked?

If so, there is no specific law that out Laws this. Rugby League calls it a "Cannonball Tackle" and it is illegal under their Laws. Recovering from a serious knee injury takes a long time. I have seen occasions when a cannonball tackle has ruled out a player for an entire season.

"A cannonball tackle occurs when a defender makes dangerous contact with the leg of an opponent who is already held in possession and deemed to be in a vulnerable position"

However, in RU, there is Law 10.4 (e)

[TEXTAREA]10.4 (e) Dangerous tackling. A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

Aside from the specific examples listed in that Law (stiff-arm, head high, early, late, without the ball etc) it is left open for the referee to interpret what he considers dangerous. Anything that I consider to be intent to injure I would rule as dangerous. Running shoulder-first directly into a player's knee (especially from front or side on) achieves nothing tactically that grabbing them around the ankles would not achieve, and IMO, can have no purpose other than to intentionally injure. I would penalise such a player for dangerous play. Any who don't agree, ask yourself if you would be OK with an opponent doing this to you.

Attempting to tackle a scrumhalf while box kicking or just after, not late, by hitting and wrapping the standing leg?

 

[munstermuffin]

Owen got an injury against wasps, hence why he didn't feature v Racing.

But will ye look to next season in terms of influence selection

 

[smartcooky]

Attempting to tackle a scrumhalf while box kicking or just after, not late, by hitting and wrapping the standing leg?

That's fine. This is a case of "I'll know it when I see it"

If I saw you swinging the grasp arm so that it made forceful forearm contact front-on to the kicker's kneecap, or if you shoulder-charged into the kneecap and I thought wrapping was an afterthought, I would warn you that your technique is dangerous to the tackled player. If you keep doing it, you'll give me no choice but the think you are deliberately trying in injure the player, which is an infringement liable to severe sanctions.

Law 10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Trying to purposefully injure an opponent is definitely not within the spirit of the game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's fine. This is a case of "I'll know it when I see it"

If I saw you swinging the grasp arm so that it made forceful forearm contact front-on to the kicker's kneecap, or if you shoulder-charged into the kneecap and I thought wrapping was an afterthought, I would warn you that your technique is dangerous to the tackled player. If you keep doing it, you'll give me no choice but the think you are deliberately trying in injure the player, which is an infringement liable to severe sanctions.



Trying to purposefully injure an opponent is definitely not within the spirit of the game.

Thanks.

From this I think Glasgow were fine.

 

[munstermuffin]

That's fine. This is a case of "I'll know it when I see it"

If I saw you swinging the grasp arm so that it made forceful forearm contact front-on to the kicker's kneecap, or if you shoulder-charged into the kneecap and I thought wrapping was an afterthought, I would warn you that your technique is dangerous to the tackled player. If you keep doing it, you'll give me no choice but the think you are deliberately trying in injure the player, which is an infringement liable to severe sanctions.



Trying to purposefully injure an opponent is definitely not within the spirit of the game.

That is kind of what Rolland was saying but more if it was a genuine attempt it should be on thigh area up but fact they were going for ankles and made no attempt at a block.
For all the talk on Murray it was Zebo challenge that really showed the tactic and its dangers

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Academy lad George Worth replaces Owen Williams on the bench.

 

[Groundhog]

For the record Munster have been cleared of any wrongdoing for bringing Murray back on after his HIA, as he had no concussion symptoms.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

So the hopes of Two French teams rest on Tigers shoulders.

Wouldn't want to be them.

 

[Groundhog]

So the hopes of Two French teams rest on Tigers shoulders.

Wouldn't want to be them.

Do the decent thing and you will ride into Valhalla at our sides, all shiny and chrome.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Do the decent thing and you will ride into Valhalla at our sides, all shiny and chrome.

What would be the decent thing?

Are Munster fans on good terms with Galsgow or are they still mad at them?

 

[Groundhog]

What would be the decent thing?

Are Munster fans on good terms with Galsgow or are they still mad at them?

..........Draw. Genuinely the qualification maths go way over my turnip head.