Rugby Championship: Argentina - New Zealand (29/09/2012)

[TRF_Ezequiel]

vBookie Pumas-All Blacks

vBookie added for this clash in Argentina

 

[Colombia]

vBookie added for this clash in Argentina

Is there a vbookie history where one can see the previous bets one has made?

 

[waqaseduadua]

Pumas starting XV has been called. Main issues are Landajo staying as 9, and changes in reserve players, JP Orlandi and Senatore are out, so Ayerza is in and first call for lock Tomas Vallejos, Llanelli Scarlets player.
It looks like main thing still in creating more attack situations, ant that's why Landajo and Gonzalez Amorosino are in, personally I see Vergallo over Landajo, but he seems to be considered more defensive. And having that in mind I hope to see Imhoff at least 20 minutes on the field, he is capable to create some trouble to rival defenses.

1- Rodrigo Roncero, 2- Eusebio Guiñazú, 3- Juan Figallo, 4- Manuel Carizza, 5- Patricio Albacete, 6- Julio Farías Cabello, 7- Juan Manuel Leguizamón, 8- Juan Fernández Lobbe, 9- Martín Landajo, 10- Juan Martín Hernández, 11- Horacio Agulla, 12- Santiago Fernández, 13- Marcelo Bosch, 14- Gonzalo Camacho, 15- Lucas González Amorosino

Bench: 16- Agustín Creevy, 17- Marcos Ayerza, 18- Tomás Vallejos Cinalli, 19- Tomás Leonardi, 20- Nicolás Vergallo, 21- Martín Rodríguez, 22- Juan Imhoff

 

[Darwin]

Interesting to see Argentina sticking with the same starting XV. I would have thought Creevy may have been brought into the starting lineup, but Guinazu has been pretty solid all tournament.

 

[Colombia]

Pumas starting XV has been called. Main issues are Landajo staying as 9, and changes in reserve players, JP Orlandi and Senatore are out, so Ayerza is in and first call for lock Tomas Vallejos, Llanelli Scarlets player.
It looks like main thing still in creating more attack situations, ant that's why Landajo and Gonzalez Amorosino are in, personally I see Vergallo over Landajo, but he seems to be considered more defensive. And having that in mind I hope to see Imhoff at least 20 minutes on the field, he is capable to create some trouble to rival defenses.

1- Rodrigo Roncero, 2- Eusebio Guiñazú, 3- Juan Figallo, 4- Manuel Carizza, 5- Patricio Albacete, 6- Julio Farías Cabello, 7- Juan Manuel Leguizamón, 8- Juan Fernández Lobbe, 9- Martín Landajo, 10- Juan Martín Hernández, 11- Horacio Agulla, 12- Santiago Fernández, 13- Marcelo Bosch, 14- Gonzalo Camacho, 15- Lucas González Amorosino

Bench: 16- Agustín Creevy, 17- Marcos Ayerza, 18- Tomás Vallejos Cinalli, 19- Tomás Leonardi, 20- Nicolás Vergallo, 21- Martín Rodríguez, 22- Juan Imhoff

Amorisino at full-back... he put in one of the worst test 15 performances against SA in the opener since Ugo Monye lined up against Argentina in 2009 (and at least he had the excuse of being a natural wing).

Landajo over Vergallo may be a sound call. The Pumas are likely to be on top for the first hour or so, so that is when they'll need their best attacking 9 on the field. They could also have done with Sanchez at 10 but maybe Hernandez can bring something on the front foot.

 

[psychic duck]

Pumas starting XV has been called. Main issues are Landajo staying as 9, and changes in reserve players, JP Orlandi and Senatore are out, so Ayerza is in and first call for lock Tomas Vallejos, Llanelli Scarlets player.
It looks like main thing still in creating more attack situations, ant that's why Landajo and Gonzalez Amorosino are in, personally I see Vergallo over Landajo, but he seems to be considered more defensive. And having that in mind I hope to see Imhoff at least 20 minutes on the field, he is capable to create some trouble to rival defenses.

1- Rodrigo Roncero, 2- Eusebio Guiñazú, 3- Juan Figallo, 4- Manuel Carizza, 5- Patricio Albacete, 6- Julio Farías Cabello, 7- Juan Manuel Leguizamón, 8- Juan Fernández Lobbe, 9- Martín Landajo, 10- Juan Martín Hernández, 11- Horacio Agulla, 12- Santiago Fernández, 13- Marcelo Bosch, 14- Gonzalo Camacho, 15- Lucas González Amorosino

Bench: 16- Agustín Creevy, 17- Marcos Ayerza, 18- Tomás Vallejos Cinalli, 19- Tomás Leonardi, 20- Nicolás Vergallo, 21- Martín Rodríguez, 22- Juan Imhoff

Amorisino at full-back... he put in one of the worst test 15 performances against SA in the opener since Ugo Monye lined up against Argentina in 2009 (and at least he had the excuse of being a natural wing).

He had one bad match, but it doesn't change the fact that he:

1. Was good in the Rugby World Cup for Argentina and saved Phelan's job by scoring against Scotland.


2. Was recognised as one of the top full backs last season in the Top 14 for Montpellier.
3. A counter attacking full back who is capable of producing moments of brilliance.
4. The alternative is an up and under merchant in Rodríguez, who hardly was impressive during the World Cup at 15, and doesn't even play there regularly for Stade Français. And also means the backline goes from having one player capable of making line breaks to 0.
5. Amorosino has done more than enough over the entirety of the past year to deserve an extended run in the Argentine 15 jersey. One bad match shouldn't ruin the work he has done to get that shirt.

Give Amorosino some faith, it's just one bad match and he has plenty of good ones to earn the starting position (should have started in the RWC in my opinion, certainly after his performance in the Romania match). If he doesn't improve over the rest of the year, or has another poor game like he did in the first one, then Argentina can start looking for another option but for now he's been consistently the best full back for the past year.

Landajo over Vergallo may be a sound call. The Pumas are likely to be on top for the first hour or so, so that is when they'll need their best attacking 9 on the field. They could also have done with Sanchez at 10 but maybe Hernandez can bring something on the front foot.

Not sure what makes you think the Pumas "are likely to be on top for the first hour or so" to be honest.

Landajo over Vergallo is the right decision. Vergallo hasn't been that impressive so far, and Landajo is the younger option and now should be given a chance.

In November, hopefully Cubelli rises into the squad. He is a more complete scrum half than either Landajo or Vergallo. But knowing Phelan and his unwillingness to make any changes to the side and give chances to on form younger players, it is doubtful.

 

[welshglory]

Rodriguez isn't that much better to be honest, i can see why they've stuck with Amorosino.

When i saw Rodriguez play at 12 i was quite impressed, he has a quite a lot of flair as well as physicality. When he plays at fullback though you hardly ever see him in the game.

 

[psychic duck]

Rodriguez isn't that much better to be honest, i can see why they've stuck with Amorosino.

When i saw Rodriguez play at 12 i was quite impressed, he has a quite a lot of flair as well as physicality. When he plays at fullback though you hardly ever see him in the game.

Rodríguez's best position by far is 12. His club Stade Français have realised that, and he was first choice for them there last season and only played as a 12, whilst before he was used as a utility back who changed position a lot. Argentina are still stuck with the latter view, whilst Stade have realised where he is at his best.

He's not an awful 15, but as you say, he doesn't do much in the game at all from 15, and when he ever gets the ball would normally just do a poor up and under.

There were actually rumours he may be tried at 13 this year, but Phelan as per usual failed to have any imagination and didn't experiment with it when he could have done against Stade Français.

Amorosino is a much better 15 than Rodríguez, and certainly contributes more to the match. Just he has a more risky style, so makes more mistakes as well as doing a lot more in attack.

 

[Colombia]

He had one bad match, but it doesn't change the fact that he:

1. Was good in the Rugby World Cup for Argentina and saved Phelan's job by scoring against Scotland.

lol we've been through this, you thought he was bad, I thought he was terrible (unforgivably so)

2. Was recognised as one of the top full backs last season in the Top 14 for Montpellier.
3. A counter attacking full back who is capable of producing moments of brilliance.
4. The alternative is an up and under merchant in Rodríguez, who hardly was impressive during the World Cup at 15, and doesn't even play there regularly for Stade Français. And also means the backline goes from having one player capable of making line breaks to 0.
5. Amorosino has done more than enough over the entirety of the past year to deserve an extended run in the Argentine 15 jersey. One bad match shouldn't ruin the work he has done to get that shirt.

2. Club level
3. Granted, but he has to catch it first (a task seemingly beyond him in the opener)
4. I think we've been through this too, I rate Rodriguez but appreciate he is not in good form. Why not Bustos Moyano? or Hernandez to 15, Sanchez to 10?

Give Amorosino some faith, it's just one bad match and he has plenty of good ones to earn the starting position (should have started in the RWC in my opinion, certainly after his performance in the Romania match). If he doesn't improve over the rest of the year, or has another poor game like he did in the first one, then Argentina can start looking for another option but for now he's been consistently the best full back for the past year.

Well let's see. If he has a good game (as opposed to anonymous or terrible) I will certainly acknowledge it.

Not sure what makes you think the Pumas "are likely to be on top for the first hour or so" to be honest.

Landajo over Vergallo is the right decision. Vergallo hasn't been that impressive so far, and Landajo is the younger option and now should be given a chance.

In November, hopefully Cubelli rises into the squad. He is a more complete scrum half than either Landajo or Vergallo. But knowing Phelan and his unwillingness to make any changes to the side and give chances to on form younger players, it is doubtful.

I think Argentina are likely to be on top because they come out fired up and were on top for 50 minutes against SA at home who possess a stronger pack than NZ. I expect Arg. to tire in the second half.

I think Vergallo has been good, a better scrum-half than Landajo but not the same threat with ball in hand. For the first half at least, I think Landajo is the right option.

 

[psychic duck]

lol we've been through this, you thought he was bad, I thought he was terrible (unforgivably so)

2. Club level
3. Granted, but he has to catch it first (a task seemingly beyond him in the opener)
4. I think we've been through this too, I rate Rodriguez but appreciate he is not in good form. Why not Bustos Moyano? or Hernandez to 15, Sanchez to 10?

I don't see why you are denigrating his form for Montpellier as one of the top full backs in the league as just club level.

The other Argentine players who are competing for the full back position played in the same league yet none looked as good. None of those players you mentioned had as good seasons as Amorosino.

If Amorosino again maintains poor form throughout the rest of this tournament, then other options could be considered. My second choice would be Bustos Moyano, he is solid rather than spectacular, but offers more than Rodríguez who is a 12. Hernández will stay at 10, so unless Sanchez learns to play a new position then he will not get in the side.

Yes it doesn't necessarily always translate to international level (see Aled Brew), but it does give an indication that he is better than them. But Amorosino has already done some great things at international level so he has already shown he is capable at this level.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyTrc8IF-A

And as mentioned previously it is just one match, he was awesome at the Rugby World Cup as well as last season for Montpellier. If you were to say every player who had one poor match should never play again, then Marcelo Bosch's international career would have ended after a dreadful performance against Ireland in 2010.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (captain), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Charlie Faumuina, Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Only changes are Carter and Smith into the XV, with Cruden and Weepu dropping to the reserves, plus Cane and B Smith come in for Vito and Ellison.

 

[Draggs]

Duck, I am curious. What do you see as Argentina's best backline?

 

[Darwin]

Predictable AB's side - great to have Carter back! Hope Cane gets a good 20 mins off the bench.

 

[Larksea]

Good side, I'm looking for a good game from Messam to further consolidate his place in the starting 15 and hoping Ben Smith gets a good run, All respect to Jane IMO Smith is our best winger right now. The way I see it Jane is there on experience and Savea is there on potential but Ben smith is the genuine form player.

Pretty much a spot on side, I think you could play any combination of the three locks, smith is clearly the best #9, carters cool head and experience will be hugely important. But at the same time I think some players need to look for that extra 10% and lift their game to help combat the Pumas huge home ground advantage.

it is interesting how Charlie Faumaina seems to have overtaken Ben in the pecking order.

Mealamu and Cane to add impact of the bench, I see cane as a great player to come on and protect a lead. He can make a tackle a minute and miss nothing if he needs to and seems to keep very clean for a 7.

Could also see Cruden on for Nonu lat in the game to take advantage of a tired defense.

 

[BZHopenside]

Mildly humorous: the All-Blacks could field A,B,C Smiths.

 

[Shaggy]

Apparently Ritchie has a leg injury, so Sam Cane has been included as cover ... don't have the the link, but there's articles in the international rugby section of the stuff web site (www.stuff.co.nz)

 

[nickdnz]

Good side, I'm looking for a good game from Messam to further consolidate his place in the starting 15 and hoping Ben Smith gets a good run, All respect to Jane IMO Smith is our best winger right now. The way I see it Jane is there on experience and Savea is there on potential but Ben smith is the genuine form player.

Pretty much a spot on side, I think you could play any combination of the three locks, smith is clearly the best #9, carters cool head and experience will be hugely important. But at the same time I think some players need to look for that extra 10% and lift their game to help combat the Pumas huge home ground advantage.

it is interesting how Charlie Faumaina seems to have overtaken Ben in the pecking order.

Mealamu and Cane to add impact of the bench, I see cane as a great player to come on and protect a lead. He can make a tackle a minute and miss nothing if he needs to and seems to keep very clean for a 7.

Could also see Cruden on for Nonu lat in the game to take advantage of a tired defense.

Ugh, so sick of yours and Darwin's Ben Smith love. He's not a winger, certainly not better than Jane, Gear, Savea or several others in my opinion. He's the form fullback (although Dagg has been impressive in recent weeks and Taylor looked better during much of the Super Rugby). Nothing he has done in an All Blacks jersey warrents the claim of him being better than any winger in the sqaud. I actually think he has the most potential at centre (where he looked good when he played there in his last game for the All Blacks). I know Larksea vision means any player you like instantly becomes the best, but give me one reason why he should play on the wing or why he's better there than Jane and Savea .

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't think he did much at centre when he played there really? He wasn't poor or anything, but he didn't see much ball etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing Smith at 15 in the SA game, with Dagg on the wing for Savea.

 

[Darwin]

Ugh, so sick of yours and Darwin's Ben Smith love. He's not a winger, certainly not better than Jane, Gear, Savea or several others in my opinion. He's the form fullback (although Dagg has been impressive in recent weeks and Taylor looked better during much of the Super Rugby). Nothing he has done in an All Blacks jersey warrents the claim of him being better than any winger in the sqaud. I actually think he has the most potential at centre (where he looked good when he played there in his last game for the All Blacks). I know Larksea vision means any player you like instantly becomes the best, but give me one reason why he should play on the wing or why he's better there than Jane and Savea .

I know it is sick isn't it. It is almost as bad as your man-love for Hosea Gear!

As it happens I tend to agree with you with respect to using Smith on the wing - I'm sure he would do a good job there, but to suggest he is currently our best wing seems a bit odd considering he played probably 2-3 games on the wing over the last 3 years! If he was to start in the current lineup it would have to be at fullback (perhaps with Dagg on the wing), but that isn't going to happen. I think Jane has been very good over recent weeks, and I've been pretty happy with what I've seen from Savea thus far too - I'm actually picking he will have a big game this week as I think the AB's will play with a lot of width in an attempt to exploit Argentina's narrow defense.

 

[nickdnz]

I know it is sick isn't it. It is almost as bad as your man-love for Hosea Gear!

As it happens I tend to agree with you with respect to using Smith on the wing - I'm sure he would do a good job there, but to suggest he is currently our best wing seems a bit odd considering he played probably 2-3 games on the wing over the last 3 years! If he was to start in the current lineup it would have to be at fullback (perhaps with Dagg on the wing), but that isn't going to happen. I think Jane has been very good over recent weeks, and I've been pretty happy with what I've seen from Savea thus far too - I'm actually picking he will have a big game this week as I think the AB's will play with a lot of width in an attempt to exploit Argentina's narrow defense.

Well the Gear love is dwindling. The Highlanders are ruining him. I want him back for Wellington where he can remember what it feels like to get the ball with space on the wing. As it is, Savea is playing like a younger (not quite as good yet) version of Gear, which means he'll make more mistakes as well as more magic. Hoping Savea has a blinder, but I can't help but feel the defensive attitude of the Argentine wingers will make it very tricky. At least there will be better weather than in Wellington (ironically I was watching the game in town, where there was nearly no wind or rain - 400m down the road to the stadium it was hell on earth)

Agree regarding Ben Smith. He's got two things going for him - vision in the sense that with space he can find a gap, and solid safe skills. He's actually wasted on the wing, where I don't feel he's as good, with more limited time and no extreme speed. Not to say that he isn't better than say - Zac Guildford. Not apposed to moving Dagg to the wing either - I think if Ben Smith is to play fullback that would be the best move.