RWC 2011: THE FINAL!!! France vs. New Zealand

[Larksea]

Wow, and I rate haka.co.nz.... I'll have to watch the replay just to be sure of myself.[Could have just been me HOPING he missed them].. If I feel I'm correct I might just make up a video of each one and post just for you Larksea

lol, go ahead. Honestly I think some people here need to man up and come clean about comments towards beaver and my assessment of his abilities and potential at test level over the last few years.

I hope the NZ public learns from this, apart from the fact people should just acknowledge my assessment of players as fact ... People need to encourage and get behind the all blacks no matter what because like it or not the guys selected are the best we have and they will perform closer to their potential with the public opinion behind them and not on top of them.

 

[Larksea]

From a neutral perspective I think France were robbed. NZ were all over the place mentally. Never has a team been under so much pressure and you could see them trying their best to hold out and credit to them for giving their all to win the match. They won because Joubert didn't ref the game fairly though.

The 13 - 6 penalty count was against France so Joubert bent things just enough for NZ to scrape the win.

hello, the penalty count was 10 - 7

 

[james5000]

I find it funny all these people claiming to be neutral when they clearly were supporting France from the out set.

 

[Dizzy]

lol, go ahead. Honestly I think some people here need to man up and come clean about comments towards beaver and my assessment of his abilities and potential at test level over the last few years.

Come clean as in?????... Dude, the man won us the World Cup, I take back every negative comment I made about the man...

I hope the NZ public learns from this, apart from the fact people should just acknowledge my assessment of players as fact ... People need to encourage and get behind the all blacks no matter what because like it or not the guys selected are the best we have and they will perform closer to their potential with the public opinion behind them and not on top of them.

100% agreed

 

[smartcooky]

I do not want too much to enter in all this discussion but it is just hypocrite to say that Kaino is on his feet (even more if you look at the whole action on the youtube link above, Kaino is staying way too long in this position, he should have been penalised...) .

Please show me the Law reference that limits the number of seconds a player is allowed to have his hands on the ball

I post again, and in case you do not read English very well, here is Law 16.4 (b) in French

[TEXTAREA]16.4 AUTRES FAUTES DANS UNE MÊLÉE SPONTANÉE
(b) Un joueur ne doit pas jouer le ballon à la main dans une mêlée spontanée sauf après un plaquage s’il est sur ses pieds et avait les mains sur le ballon avant que ne se forme la mêlée spontanée.
Sanction : coup de pied de pénalité[/TEXTAREA]

and in English

[TEXTAREA]16.4 OTHER RUCK OFFENCES

(b) Players must not handle the ball in a ruck except after a tackle if they are on their feet and have their hands on the ball before the ruck is formed.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

You see, there is no time limit.

There is no way his legs supporting him with his position. That is the only penalty which was enough close from the post and which could have been the end of the final for the Blacks.

Utter Rubbish, you can't see that, and nor can I! but Joubert can because he has a better angle and is a lot closer.

The Rougerie kick is totally valid as there was 2 ABs offside in the ruck and the ball was out of the ruck.

More utter rubbish. A player bound to ruck, or bound into a ruck by other players, cannot be offside at the ruck, otherwise everyone in the ruck would be offside.

Rougerie was NOT bound into the ruck. The red line is the offside line

He became offside the moment he stepped forward. If he was allowed
to do that, then why are the rest of his team-mates still lined up on
the offside line?

There he is, offside, and the ball is still in the ruck. Penalty kick to
New Zealand right there in that photo.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I've been a bit busy so a little late but here we go:


First of all: Congratulations to all New Zealanders here on TRF. You guys deserved the trophy after 2 incredible years. Your backline is fired up and ready to go for a couple of years. Where you used to have runners Sivivatu and Rokocoko and the reliable but safe Muliaina, you have the dynamic Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui and Cory Jane who bring more versatility. It is what makes your team more dangerous than it was and gives you the edge you've missed the last 15 years.

Heads up for all you Welsh fans. By far the most impressive team at the World Cup and with so many young players, ready for the future!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How is that ball in the ruck?
There's no legs or feet over it, it's just lying on the floor next to a prone player?

 

[Dizzy]

To be fair cooky, All the players are on the ground and the ball looks to me like it is out... It's a damn shame these ruck laws.

 

[ckell]

The big question is were the French forming an arrowhead or a V for Victory during the Haka?

 

[smartcooky]

How is that ball in the ruck?
There's no legs or feet over it, it's just lying on the floor next to a prone player?

To be fair cooky, All the players are on the ground and the ball looks to me like it is out... It's a damn shame these ruck laws.

For the ball to be out of a ruck it has to be COMPLETELY CLEAR of bodies. That means outside the outside extremities of every player in the ruck, including any players on the ground.




Now, here is a real assessment of Joubert's performance by a man who knows what he is talking about; a former international rugby referee, referee assessor and development officer

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10761463

I agree 100% with everything this guy says here. When I reviewed the match myself, looking at it dispassionately through the eyes of an Assessor (now known as a Match Observer) I saw a referee who controlled the match in much the same way as he usually does. He penalised clear and obvious infringements and managed the immaterial infringements through good communication with use of voice and hand signals. There were plenty of offences by both France and New Zealand that were not called, and most of them had no impact on play or the match so they were not material.

 

[Isurus]

Your backline is fired up and ready to go for a couple of years. Where you used to have runners Sivivatu and Rokocoko and the reliable but safe Muliaina, you have the dynamic Israel Dagg, Richard Kahui and Cory Jane who bring more versatility. It is what makes your team more dangerous than it was and gives you the edge you've missed the last 15 years.

Huh? You are saying no All Black team in the last 15 years has had any edge in the backline?

 

[barthelemy]

Please show me the Law reference that limits the number of seconds a player is allowed to have his hands on the ball

I have edited my post before your answer.

About Kaino, There is no way his legs supporting himself with his position, At first he is not on his feet but he is playing the ball, stopping the ball being released by the french and then he comes back on his feet. you just have choosen screens that could make your story believable. That is the only penalty which was enough close to the post and which could have been a RWC winning relatively easy kick, the easiest kick frenchies could have had during this match.

And it is not utter rubbish, he is not on his feet. he is doing some sort of horse riding on a french horse, stopping the ball to be released.

In french, in case you do not understand English ^_^

A propos de Kaino, Il n'etait pas sur ses jambes pendant une bonne partie de la sequence de jeu et empechait la sortie du ballon volontairement. Ce n'est qu'a la fin de la sequence qu'il se remet sur ses jambes sans jamais lacher le ballon.

I did delete before you posted my Rougerie story because you are maybe right. But he is coming legally from behind the ruck, so it is arguable...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Huh? You are saying no All Black team in the last 15 years has had any edge in the backline?

Well, I think that this backline has everything. It's a backline that consists of running, crashing the defensive line, breaking through, kicking. It is what you guys missed over the years. Not that you were bad, but now it all falls into place.

 

[Larksea]

I think cookies analysis is hard to argue with, he was clearly ahead of the offside line before the ball was out. Without even talking about the french player conveniently stuck in the boot of the ruck on the All Blacks side.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

hey cooky, can you analyse the first ruck on the match? from what i recall mccaw tackles the frenchman around the legs, and doesn't release the tackled player, and even though he doesn't end up pinned under the ruck and isn't stopping the ball from coming out, he refuses to roll away.

 

[Dizzy]

Look it's the laws that are at fault here. Now you could say Rougerie stepped through the ruck as he goes over the feet of a player. That is the gate isn't it? and if it's not, then why is the ball in a direct line with Rougeries path?..

It's the laws, they just don't make sense.

 

[Dizzy]

RWC 2011 CHAMPIONS!!!!!

Just because it's my 1000th post.

 

[ckell]

Well I suppose it comes down to each ref's interpretation of it. Either Joubert missed a blatant offside or he considered the ball to be out. I'd go for the former in this instance, so France caught a lucky break there.

 

[shtove]

Its nice that the best team in the world is also the winner of the World Cup for once.

Bit severe!

England 03 were just about the best. Aus 99 would still beat any team going. ABs 87 no contest.

If SA get a backline going we might see the best of all, but judging how the last two finals have been won I don't expect to see it.

Kick, chase, tackle. I won't be rolling out of bed to watch.

 

[Isurus]

No one seems to have said anything in defence of McCaw's hit on Parra.

Nonu was in possession of the ball and was tackled by Parra. First man on the scene was Desautoir who attempted to turn the ball over. McCaw arrived before Parra had rolled away and attempted to clear Dusautoir out and retain All Black possession. In the process McCaw's left hand strikes/hits/brushes Parra's right cheek and then McCaw's left knee hits Parra in the right temple.

The slow motion replay from the New Zealand end makes this look horrible. Parra was certainly struck and hurt during this clearout.

Here's a video which shows this in the worst possible light:


Some points:
1. In my opinion McCaw seems to have no motivation other than to clearout Dusautoir.
2. He leads into Dusautoir with his left hand, aiming to get under Dusautoir's left arm to remove it from the area where the ball is located. Technically sound, but his left hand strikes Parra on the way through.
3. This all happened very quickly but Parra certainly made no motion to roll away. In fact, at the moment that McCaw arrives Parra raises his head and that is when the initial contact between hand and face occurs.
4. All of McCaw's energy continues to be aimed at removing Dusautoir which he succeeds in doing.

Is anyone going to make a case that McCaw's actions here were actually malicious or underhanded? At the very worst he was careless. Barely that. Parra was just a little unlucky I think.