Sam Burgess U Turn

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2015' started by valley commando, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    DT you get 20 articles free per month, but just clear your cookies when you reach your 20 article limit and you can start reading the telegraph again with a new 20 article limit.
     
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  3. Tony Manx

    Tony Manx TRF Season Ticket Holder

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    Also that limit is not applied if you use an ITouch!!

    Reference Burgess, "It weren't me Guv"!!

    Interesting that his contract was only for another 18 months and it reads he had no intention to renew even if he had cracked the selection as a 6!
     
  4. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    And how would we have faired if we had played a backline of Ford, Burrell and Slade? Taking him and selecting that backline was the mistake.
     
  5. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    No one knows. Maybe they'd have been ripped to bits defensively before then, maybe they'd have won the game. Both possibilities. But then he could have taken Burrell instead of Barritt anyway.
     
  6. Tallshort

    Tallshort Senior Member

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    To me Farrell, Burgess and Barritt was about the worst 3/4 line I have seen in white since the days of Jamie Noon and the only thing that suprised me at the time was Wales only won by 3 points but after watching Wales toil against the Aussies its obvious the team had/has no attacking flair so if we had made a more ambitious selection we would have won that game by a decent margin as we did in Cardiff in Feb.

    Yes we were winning when we took Burgess off but had Wales really tried to expose that very limited back line it could have ended in carnage.
     
  7. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Yup, for the record


    ► Two seasons (2008/09 & 2009/10) with Toulon... 33 matches in the Top 14 & Heineken Cup
    ► Half a season (2010) with Belfast... 6 matches in the CRFU Seniors Club Rugby
    ► Half a season with Canterbury... 6 matches in the ITM Cup
    ► Then he was selected for the 2010 EOYT where he played three matches
    ► Full Season (2011) the Crusaders... 15 matches in Super Rugby
    ► Then he was selected in the 2011 Tri-nations squad where he played in four matches

    After all that... he had 12 lower level matches, 48 elite level matches and 7 tests under his belt before being selected for RWC 2011.

    NOTE: By way of comparison, NMS had 35 lower level (ITM Cup) matches, only 15 Elite (SR) matches, and just 2 tests under his belt before he was selected for RWC 2015!!. When He played against South Africa in the semi final, it was his first test against them!!
     
  8. GreenTiger

    GreenTiger Junior Member

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    He just couldn't cope with union. All the rules and everything. He also received pressure after the world cup. In my opinion league is more of a easier sport, therefore he chose league.
     
  9. Maverick1987

    Maverick1987 Senior Member

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    It was exactly what I said ....

    England have way too much young talent coming through in the back row and he didn't want to fight for it .

    Itoje is already better than Burgess by some margin and he is 7 years his junior .....
     
  10. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Can we not turn this into another NZ willy waggling thread, everyone is well aware of SBWs story - hell, he learnt the game in the NH.
    Pretty sure he played a fair bit more in the centres than the backrow at Bath. Also played there for England Saxons.
     
  11. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside Senior Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34772560

    He's confirmed his heart was no longer in it and he preferred to return to his original love of League. Can't blame him really, rather end it now then continue fooling no-one. I think he would have left anyway regardless of whether he was picked for the RWC. If a player doesn't enjoy Union, then they will never improve in it.
     
  12. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    Oh FFS Olly that is not what it is about. There is no "SBW is better than Burgess" thing going on here!

    The discussion is about how Burgess' transition from League to Union was totally mismanaged by England (and to a certain extent Bath) and how he is being blamed in some quarters for England's woes at the RWC. I could have picked any number of comparison examples of how it was done a lot better by other unions; Brad Thorn, Wendell Sailor, Israel Folau, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri. I just picked the SBW example because it was recent, high profile and I knew it better than the others.
     
  13. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    FWIW that's how I read it - as making the point that it took SBW a decent length of time to to international level, where as Burgess was just slung in there on a wing and a prayer with club and country somewhat at loggerheads about his role.
     
  14. grumpybaldy

    grumpybaldy Junior Member

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    Given the way rugby union is being played now and is evolving (if you can call it that), if he'd stayed Burgess would have found himself playing rugby league again anyway before long!
     
  15. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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  16. g6mcg

    g6mcg Senior Member

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  17. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Didn't G.Ford go to bath as his Daddy is there?
     
  18. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Not that I have anything new to add - but I called this when he was signed.

    The reality is he signed 6 months out from a RWC, with that tournament being his big carrot.

    People are saying the RFU mismanaged the situation - and they are right in that they led him to believe he would be ready to play in a RWC after 6 months - but I doubt if he didn't make the RWC squad he'd still be sticking around either. As it was, it seems he hasn't especially enjoyed his time in union. His big 'carrot' of a RWC ended up in England's worst ever tournament at home, uncertainty whether he was a forward or a back, him losing money to poor market speculating, and pretty constant media circus surrounding whether he should/shouldn't be in the squad. If he wasn't selected for England's squad he'd likely be in a similar situation of feelling under-valued.

    In reality I think he wanted to play in a RWC - not necessarily be a rugby union player.

    Sonny Bill Williams is probably a bit the same. As much as his popularity is on the up - he has definetely picked his times to be a rugby union player in New Zealand. 2010-2012 - enough time to make a bid at rugby union in NZ to make the 2011 RWC squad, while also giving him time to play in Japan and still make the NRL season. 2014-2016 - enough time to be included on the EOYT and make another bid for the RWC, and 2016 allows him access to the Olympics. He may stick around for 2017 with a Lions tour to go.

    The point I'm making (and not taking anything away from him) - is that his career ambitions seem to be very 'reward oriented' - rather than based on developing with one team and being the best he could possibly be at that one thing.

    For Sam Burgess, he is a legend in rugby league. Whatever people think of his 'potential' in union - I think they are naieve to think a return to being the pinnacle wouldn't have always been more alluring. Nothing about this at all has surprised me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  19. austingtir

    austingtir Senior Member

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    Well when England does a **** poor job of copying NZ in nearly every way (except winning) then we have a talking point dont we?

    And the only reasons SBW went to toulon was Tana and the $$$$ (the lower tier rugby to start out also helped).
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  20. TommiG88

    TommiG88 Senior Member

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  21. YoungScud

    YoungScud Senior Member

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    Yuo're right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't know if this helps soothe tempers, but Bath ahve more than filled Burgess' shoes in the back row by signing David Denton from Edinburgh.
     
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