Scottish independence referendum

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Draggs, Sep 1, 2014.

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Will Scotland vote for independence? (Not personal opinion on if they should)

Poll closed Sep 8, 2014.
  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    61.5%
  3. Don't know

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. ragerancher

    ragerancher International

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    The complete inability of large chunks of the yes vote to take defeat with dignity do Scotland a disservice. The international community will look and see the first thing the Yes lot do is accusations of vote rigging, despite the gap being almost 400,000.

    - To take that video apart, the first bit I don't have an explanation for although it seems odd, why take 2 from yes and 1 form no and swap them round? Why not simply move one from yes and put it in no? Why even take one out of the no at all? It's absurd.
    - The second bit with the no table, those votes had not yet been counted and the Yes campaign have even said so. However the whole "rigged" movement has taken on a mind of its own and isn't listening.
    - The last case a guy writes something on 1 sheet of paper. There is NOTHING in that video that is even remotely incriminating. You don't even know that the paper is a ballot paper! It's a perfect case of confirmation bias, see someone writing something on paper and immediately assume that is a ballot paper with a yes on it that has been spoiled despite there being no evidence that that is the case.

    Then there is the last minor point, when the counts were read out they also said how many were rejected and for what reasons. If loads of ballots were being ruined, it would come out in that announcement. The whole thing is so absurd it's quite frankly appauling that the Yes voters are seriously contemplating it. The only case of fraud being checked is 10 instances in Glasgow, that was an area that voted yes so it will be pretty embarrassing if the only case of fraud turned out to be by Yes supporters.

    I just KNEW the yes lot would not take defeat well, there's too much emotion and hatred driving their campaign to accept defeat. I was wrong in thinking the bad attitude would come form Salmond and not the lunatic yes voters.
     
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  3. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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    Short snaps of video presented out of context.

    Of the top of my head I can think of the following:

    The guy marking the ballot papers is probably initialing it to show it has been counted.

    The women moving the papers has realised she has mixed up the count - how many people have started sorting something and raised they've put them on the wrong pile.

    Maybe it is as it looks but i'd like a bit more evidence than some guy on YouTube. :)
     
  4. Rich Taff

    Rich Taff First XV

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    The fact that they wouldn't let any Scots vote who lived South of the border, and tried enlisting the votes of 16yr olds, yet still failed, shows how big the gap could have been.
    Hopefully Salmond finds a nice rock to crawl under and we never suffer the sight of him again.
     
  5. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Jaysus, that video is infuriating.
    I'd love to kick the maker in the nuts.

    Two points that I saw on reddit about this video:

    This referendum was run by the Scottish government, not Westminster. It would have been far easier for Salmond et al to rig it than Cameron 'n' chums.

    If there was even a shred of truth in this then the YES campaign would've been on it like a tramp on chips and it'd be all over the news as a massive story.
     
  6. Tony Manx

    Tony Manx TRF Season Ticket Holder

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    Salmond has resigned......well I never.

    Chapeau to you Salmond, never did I see that coming from you.....very honourable and well done!
     
  7. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

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    Cannot believe labour nearly lost that, usless fools had to drag in the big guns at the end to make consessions that will never happen. Its good to see the liberal elite bob their pants hope it happens more in the future.
     
  8. Draggs

    Draggs Hall of Fame

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    Liberal elite?
    >looks at Etonians in Conservatives
     
  9. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

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    #

    Pretty sure Clegg went to a much posher school then the other 2
     
  10. squirrel

    squirrel Academy Player

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  11. Draggs

    Draggs Hall of Fame

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    Globalreasearch is a conspiracy-laden site run by a Holocaust denier.
    It makes the Daily Mail look like the pinnacle of truth. GR isn't slanted, it is blatantly wrong and disregards facts.
     
  12. squirrel

    squirrel Academy Player

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    What news outlet isn't biased though? like I say I haven't read the article just thought I would post it for others to read and form their own opinion.
    BTW I have no problem with people questioning the holocaust because I don't think we should just follow Steven Spielberg's movies as if they are historical fact, not saying I agree with David Irving but people have a right to hear his argument if they choose. But I hear your point Daggs GR should be treated with extreme caution just like FOX, SKY, BBC etc
     
  13. Draggs

    Draggs Hall of Fame

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    No, I mean, it isn't even on a measurable scale like Guardian, Telegraph, NYT, Mail; The article written aren't blank-wing, they are outright wrong.
    I mean, top of the page for linked article is that 'America created Al Qaeda and ISIS'. Also another indicated that the U.S. has created Ebola as a biological weapon.
     
  14. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    I am quoting this post for posterity so that no edits can disguise what's been said. Just wow.
     
  15. squirrel

    squirrel Academy Player

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    Well America created the geopolitical landscape for these groups to breed, so without reading the article I wouldn't say the headline is that controversial
     
  16. ragerancher

    ragerancher International

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    You went full retard...
     
  17. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    No, he's right there. American intervention in the Middle East had made it politically very shaky and created the levels of chaos and resentment that makes a movement like ISIS very easy to put together.

    Of course there are such a huge number of other elements that such a headline is far from the whole truth but, yeah, there's more than a kernel of truth in that.

    I'm still marvelling at the other post though.
     
  18. squirrel

    squirrel Academy Player

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    I never said the article was correct just that you cant judge it on the title. I find a lot of their articles/essays a bit too long winded to read but I have read some that have interest to me and I find them quite thought provoking and ultimately make me more knowledgeable on some issues. As Christopher Hitchens said ''always read the other side of the argument to be prepared''
    and to clarify things Peat im not a holocaust denier because I have never studied the subject intently enough to form a definite opinion, but that doesn't stop me from reading or listening to what a denier has to say on the matter and I don't think it should be illegal for one to have doubts on some of the historical evidence.
     
  19. ragerancher

    ragerancher International

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    There is a vast difference between saying US policy helped create an environment that allowed these people to rise and directly blaming them for it. The Islamic extremism in that part of the world can't be put down to US policy, it's the people who live there. You then have surrounding states like Iran and Saudi Arabia who happily destabilise the region on a regular basis. Much as I hate to use the analogy, it's like blaming France for the Nazis and thus making France responsible for all that occurred in WW2, it's stupid. Yes their actions led to the German economy being decimated but utimately it was still the Germans electing a militaristic leader and then blindly following him on a path of conquest that caused it. Anyway ISIS sprung up in Syria, a place where the US hasn't intervened.
     
  20. squirrel

    squirrel Academy Player

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    The US have intervened indirectly in Syria, they have been arming rebels through Turkey and Israeli missiles have hit strategic spots belonging to Assad plus some economic sanctions on the Syrians and Iranians who are actually fighting those arsewipes
     
  21. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

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    Are you having a laugh! so at what point did Spielberg get it wrong.
     
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