Scottish independence referendum

[Thingimubob]

Except Australia, Scotland and the US can hardly use that as an excuse because the people that start disliking Britain are descendents of those who were the actual colonists. I mean the Americans went rampaging across the continent fighting the natives more than us Brits did, Australians went rampaging across the continent killing the natives and the Scots went rampaging across the country moaning about the fact that their king took over our country and how they were in no way involved with the British empire. On the whole not a group of people who have a case to get angry due to imperialism.

Very true, in fact didn't the colonials in the States have a pop at the French there, despite the British telling them not to, therefore starting the French & Indian War/Seven Year War? That war then led on to the some of the taxes that the colonials kicked up a fuss about just before the War of Independence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

LOL, you don't have to be Li Edelkoort to know red and green don't work well together (sorry, Italy).

But seriously. Imagine losing the blue from the Union Jack (one of my favorite flags).. death of an icon that.

Ah....I misread you post, I thought you meant the Union flag was ugly!

You're safe......for now.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

This is gotten so stale.

No - "Yes campaign are lying"
Yes - " The yes campaign are scaremongering"

And all the politicains are so unlikable. I hate that Nicola woman she is so annoying.

Although the rebuilding of harridans wall should crate more jobs in the very north of England.

 

[nickdnz]

Except Australia, Scotland and the US can hardly use that as an excuse because the people that start disliking Britain are descendents of those who were the actual colonists. I mean the Americans went rampaging across the continent fighting the natives more than us Brits did, Australians went rampaging across the continent killing the natives and the Scots went rampaging across the country moaning about the fact that their king took over our country and how they were in no way involved with the British empire. On the whole not a group of people who have a case to get angry due to imperialism.

Haha, well as a guy who has four English grandparents (both sets of which moved in the late 40s- early 50s) - I find it difficult criticizing colonialism too strongly. But the 'Americans' and 'Australians' you refer to - are indeed products of colonialism. It wasn't indiginous people commiting mass suicide .

Most people tend to have issues with English self-interested policy, and the negative effects of remaining attached. For the record I'm not having a dig at all, like I mention I'm a happy little product of colonialism. I'm just saying that while media may go someway towards negative attitudes towards the 'English' (which I should mention is referred to generally as the Empire rather than on a personal level) there is often a historical basis which still is relevant.

Plus - America still need to remind everyone that 300 years ago they won a war on the basis of loose gun control

 

[Tony Manx]

And now for something different....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Haha, well as a guy who has four English grandparents (both sets of which moved in the late 40s- early 50s) - I find it difficult criticizing colonialism too strongly. But the 'Americans' and 'Australians' you refer to - are indeed products of colonialism. It wasn't indiginous people commiting mass suicide .

Most people tend to have issues with English self-interested policy, and the negative effects of remaining attached. For the record I'm not having a dig at all, like I mention I'm a happy little product of colonialism. I'm just saying that while media may go someway towards negative attitudes towards the 'English' (which I should mention is referred to generally as the Empire rather than on a personal level) there is often a historical basis which still is relevant.

Plus - America still need to remind everyone that 300 years ago they won a war on the basis of loose gun control

English self interested? Which is of course why the English have free prescriptions, free tuition fees, extra funding to protect our history and culture, devolved powers for English only matters, above average funding etc etc etc. For a bunch of self interested people we sure do like giving all the perks to the Scots don't we? Then you have Scots saying they want to control the oil, they want no ability for any non-Scot to vote on Scottish matters, they want to dictate to Britain to have a currency union, want to dictate to the EU about membership. Now THAT sounds like a bunch of people who are self-interested doesn't it?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Thingimubob]

http://undergroundmgzn.com/2014/09/12/wales-reveal-theyve-already-left-uk/

Heh.

 

[nickdnz]

English self interested? Which is of course why the English have free prescriptions, free tuition fees, extra funding to protect our history and culture, devolved powers for English only matters, above average funding etc etc etc. For a bunch of self interested people we sure do like giving all the perks to the Scots don't we? Then you have Scots saying they want to control the oil, they want no ability for any non-Scot to vote on Scottish matters, they want to dictate to Britain to have a currency union, want to dictate to the EU about membership. Now THAT sounds like a bunch of people who are self-interested doesn't it?

I was responding to your generalization that all English hatred seems to stem from Hollywood. If you want me to find instances of the English acting self-interested at the expense of their commonwealth partners throughout history, it's not difficult to find. Regardless, I have already stated that I can see no advantage in Scotland going independent..

 

[St George]

English hatred stems from a lack of education regarding history.
An example is one such dislike of the English given by a member of this forum via another forum. He stated his Arab friend hated the English due to the Balfour Declaration on Palestine. He failed to answer when i suggested he educate his friend to the fact that Balfour was a Scot.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

English hatred stems from a lack of education regarding history.
An example is one such dislike of the English given by a member of this forum via another forum. He stated his Arab friend hated the English due to the Balfour Declaration on Palestine. He failed to answer when i suggested he educate his friend to the fact that Balfour was a Scot.

Talk about sweeping statements..

 

[Peat]

It does amuse and sometimes irk me that the British=English conflation extends to our colonial misdeeds, with the Scots, Welsh and Irish getting a free pass from most of the world, but oh well. It's not like it's totally misdirected or some shiznit. And yeah, Hollywood's fascination with us as villains doesn't help, but, you know, that's a cherry on the cake. Besides, it's cool. It's good to be bad.

Also, Scottish Anglophobia has little to do with Empire and little to do with films. Scottish cultural identity, as opposed to British cultural identity, has become, as much as anything else apart, "We're not English". That's what it is.

Anyway. I have to say, I saw a different way of looking at it this morning, one I've sorta half-thought about - but genuinely, why would the Scots wish to leave a Union where they've had a disproportionately high level of influence for a long time? There's been a Scot high up in the Treasury for almost as long as I remember, we've only recently stopped 13 years of a Scot as Prime Minster. UK embassies have championed Scotch whisky, UK money has helped make Chris Hoy a champion. The system isn't always perfect, but in general, when the Scots provide a champion, they have the whole weight of Britain behind that champion. Why give up that advantage? Have the Scots lost faith in their ability to continue shaping this nation and drawing on the resources of the whole when needed to improve their lot?

 

[gaston le gaff]

they need to put more money into Andy Murray's post match conferences then they will have everything or just about everything!!!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

English hatred stems from a lack of education regarding history.
An example is one such dislike of the English given by a member of this forum via another forum. He stated his Arab friend hated the English due to the Balfour Declaration on Palestine. He failed to answer when i suggested he educate his friend to the fact that Balfour was a Scot.

wow...man I've read some fukking bowshieet in my life, but this is just a special kind of fukking bowshieet. I'm amazed this was posted. Amazed. I'll have to tell ppl about that, I'm that confounded. Amazing post.

 

[nickdnz]

English hatred stems from a lack of education regarding history.
An example is one such dislike of the English given by a member of this forum via another forum. He stated his Arab friend hated the English due to the Balfour Declaration on Palestine. He failed to answer when i suggested he educate his friend to the fact that Balfour was a Scot.

:lol::lol::lol:

It must be nice to be so assuredly right on all foreign affair decisions from the British Empire, from it's entire conception until now. I wish I could argue against your point, but it would simply be the rambling of one not properly educated at an English institute.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You are all jelly that we had the biggest and best empire around.

You will never know how it feels to be master of the world like we did.

Some call us arrogant but really we are just on the level we are born to be on, and so it is our god given right to be arrogant.



Also if the union jack flag has to change does that mean flags from Australia, New Zeland Fiji etc etc will have to change as well?

 

[Big Ewis]

You are all jelly that we had the biggest and best empire around.

You will never know how it feels to be master of the world like we did.

Some call us arrogant but really we are just on the level we are born to be on, and so it is our god given right to be arrogant.

you kid but I've seen example after example after example of English people who actually believed that, grown mature men supposed to have the intelligence of seasoned wisdom.

 

[nickdnz]

Also if the union jack flag has to change does that mean flags from Australia, New Zeland Fiji etc etc will have to change as well?

No, it just means our flags become a little less unoriginal.

That said I think if the British removed the Union Jack, it may well result in New Zealand changing our flag as there is a referendum to do so anyway.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

you kid but I've seen example after example after example of English people who actually believed that, grown mature men supposed to have the intelligence of seasoned wisdom.

TBF I have seen example of people from every nation acting like that.

Just the English have won more stuff.

Why because we are so wonderful.

TBH I don't get why people are ashamed of the british empire pretty much every euorpean nation had one, just the English had the biggest Navy (I would say just above the dutch) and therefore were able to control a lot of the see.

I also think this whole people hate us things gets blown out of proportion, it is great that pretty much every sporting game we play the other team and it's fans have a genuine desire to win even if there is nothing at stake, and honestly I haven't meet many people who have said they hate the English outside of when something political is brought up i.e. Falklands and Scottish referendum as to recent examples, obviously there is people will hate us which is what happens when your nation has such a "interesting" history as ours in so many ways (Wars, Politics, the creation of protestant as a mainstream recognised religious adaptation of the German luthorism, it certainly put huge strains on the relationships between the catholic European nations). But some English people need to stop whinging about it.

No, it just means our flags become a little less unoriginal.

That said I think if the British removed the Union Jack, it may well result in New Zealand changing our flag as there is a referendum to do so anyway.

What is the alternatives being put forward there like?

 

[nickdnz]

What is the alternatives being put forward there like?

Ummm, I don't think there has been any official proposals. The referendum will likely go through after this upcoming election (which will be decided by the 20th of September).

The silver fern seems to be a popular alternative, while others feel it isn't a good emblem as it may make us seem like pirates...

I am fully confident that whatever will be proposed will be a mess that will alienate a bunch of people, so the most popular option will be to not change anything ever. New Zealand is a country of elderly people who are terrified of things ever changing.