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Taxi for Martin Johnson please.

I

Infern0

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Johnson is bad for international rugby.

I feel he needs to go to club level rugby, learn to walk before you can run MJ.

Question is, who wants him???
 
In fairness, look at his coaching team. Who the f*** would want any of them?
 
I thought it was a bit weird to stick him straight in at the top,
I mean, the guy had no experience coaching at all, then was put in charge of England
Good player =/= Good coach (all of the time)
 
You had Robinson, Aashtom then Johnson , and the English team has not improved a bit so two possibilities:

Either a coach whose name is finishing by "on" can't coach England, in that case you would have to look for names like Woowdward, Steward, Eward,...

or, it has to do with something else than coaching.

Maybe the players, the training at youth level, the overexposure to football and epl, the RFU,...

But God Save the queen, you have Rob Andrew to figure out what's wrong.

Just one thought maybe biased, but English players employed in the top 14 seem regenerated (Thomson, Haskel, Wilko and even Goode), not that France has performed much better than England, but roots of the problem are quite different.

My feeling has been expressed by Wilko, rugby is first of all a game that you have to enjoy. None of the english players on the pitch seem to enjoy beeing there, they look like low rank employees goiing to work by subway every morning ****** of by the coming working day. The pleasure is non existent for both players and spectators, except against France this year.

Being more relax (without smoking anything) could be a good start.
 
I'll point this out that despite going through three head coaches, we haven't changed the sub coaches (defence and forwards) we still have Mike Ford and that weirdo with the glasses who used to be Dean Richard's number 2 way back when...
 
There's been one constant since England have gone from the best team in the world to the worst. He's a former pivotal player famous for precisely one moment - a world cup drop goal.

Need any more hints?

- He's a former Wasps recognised amongst his peers as one of (if not the) worst team managers in the game.
- His former club Newcastle only won a ***le literally because they bought every player in the Northern Hemisphere.
- He's a strong advocate of ring-fencing the Premiership, replacing the 12 clubs with 10 separate union controlled franchises.
- He believes that members of the Elite squad should never play matches outside of the international windows.
- He's responsible entirely for Jamie Noons international career.
- He often attempts to take complete credit for anything Jonny Wilkinson has ever done, including a certain moment 6 years ago.
- His breath smells like Francis Barons' naughty parts.

Anybody sussed out whom I mean yet?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 16 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
There's been one constant since England have gone from the best team in the world to the worst. He's a former pivotal player famous for precisely one moment - a world cup drop goal.

Need any more hints?

- He's a former Wasps recognised amongst his peers as one of (if not the) worst team managers in the game.
- His former club Newcastle only won a ***le literally because they bought every player in the Northern Hemisphere.
- He's a strong advocate of ring-fencing the Premiership, replacing the 12 clubs with 10 separate union controlled franchises.
- He believes that members of the Elite squad should never play matches outside of the international windows.
- He's responsible entirely for Jamie Noons international career.
- He often attempts to take complete credit for anything Jonny Wilkinson has ever done, including a certain moment 6 years ago.
- His breath smells like Francis Barons' naughty parts.

Anybody sussed out whom I mean yet?[/b]

I was thinking that after the game on Saturday.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 16 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
There's been one constant since England have gone from the best team in the world to the worst. He's a former pivotal player famous for precisely one moment - a world cup drop goal.

Need any more hints?

- He's a former Wasps recognised amongst his peers as one of (if not the) worst team managers in the game.
- His former club Newcastle only won a ***le literally because they bought every player in the Northern Hemisphere.
- He's a strong advocate of ring-fencing the Premiership, replacing the 12 clubs with 10 separate union controlled franchises.
- He believes that members of the Elite squad should never play matches outside of the international windows.
- He's responsible entirely for Jamie Noons international career.
- He often attempts to take complete credit for anything Jonny Wilkinson has ever done, including a certain moment 6 years ago.
- His breath smells like Francis Barons' naughty parts.

Anybody sussed out whom I mean yet?[/b]

I can't even begin to think who you're talking about...
 
To sum it up for everyone;

It all started going wrong in the WC fallout during the 2004 6 Nations when the club v country debate got worse, thanks most in part to Francis Barons arrogance, when Woodward initially suggested the supervisor role with Andy Robinson taking over as team boss.

Rob Andrew - Who for a long time had already been a vocal criticiser of SCW while stating he wanted to b e England coach himself - manoeuvred himself onto the side of Francis Baron by publicly slamming all clubs (except oddly enough Wasps and Newcastle) by voting for ring fencing the league and central contracts.

SCW, sick and tired of his rapidly reducing influence and say on all things England, famously walked out of the RFU and within 18 months (during which time, Barons attitude during the club v country debate destroyed the last remnants of Woodwards legacy) Rob Andrew became "Elite director of Rugby" which meant he had final say on selection of players and coaching staff. He employed idiot Rugby League monkey Mike Ford as defensive coach and Leicester reject John Wells as forwards coach - Further eroding now Andy Robinsons power and making his job null and void.

The illustrious Springboks game happened, AR was sacked, Ashton was brought in an didn't select any of the players he wanted - Because the Elite director of rugby picked the same rubbish he'd been over-ruling Ashtons predecessor with already and being forced to go with Barons new £100,000 a year toy of Andy Farrell.

When out in France for the World cup, Ashton somehow made the England team work once he'd cut Rob Andrews influence out of the picture following the nilling by South Africa - including dropping the dead weight like Farrell and Barkley - and reached a World cup final against all the odds.

So naturally, as a congratulations for this remarkable achievement... Rob Andrew sacked him. After all, how dare you manage the team the way you see fit?

Fast forward past the Southern Hemisphere tour when Andrew managed his lifelong dream and became the head coach of England (in which the squad played remarkably similar rugby to the bile that Newcastle churned out circa 2003 when Dave Thompsons money ran out), and another fall guy, ahem, "saviour" is employed by Andrew to take over England... Martin Johnson.

Now, the World Cup winning captain was an extremely talented player in his day and a magnificent leader on the field. However he's never been a first class coach, isn't exactly what you'd call a "people person", is known to have a short fuse and panic when things aren't going his way and can behave overly aggressive to any peon who dare be near his illustrious person. Sounds like the ideal manager for the national team, don't you agree? Not at all like a convenient diversion due to his 2003 hero status...

Yet, despite Martin Johnson being "in charge", the same players are being selected, the same appalling tactics are being used, Wells and Ford are still involved (and now joined by Brian "could be out witted by a 10 year old" Smith) and the same results are happening.

Nothing has changed since early 2004, when Rob Andrew first started being very vocal about English rugby.

And that is why he is the main problem.


So ladies and gentlemen...
robandrewc2.jpg
 
Or to put it another way;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
World Cup winner Josh Lewsey today delivered a withering verdict on the current national coaches, insisting they are not equipped to dig the team out of trouble before facing New Zealand at Twickenham on Saturday.

The former Lions, England and London Wasps utility back has worked closely with the majority of the current backroom staff; Brian Smith (backs), John Wells (forwards), Mike Ford (defence), Graham Rowntree (scrum) and Jonathan Callard (kicking) and played under the captaincy of the team manager Martin Johnson.

Lewsey, who retired at the end of last season, said: "Just look at what London Irish have done since Brian Smith left and he didn't achieve anything at Test level when he played, Mike Ford didn't win anything, while John Wells never played international rugby. Wells's achievements as a coach are terrible and what justifies these people keeping their jobs?

"Yes, Wells and Ford helped England to reach the World Cup final in 2007, but I would counter that it didn't have anything to do with them because the players took charge and decided how we were going to play. England are the best resourced and biggest union in the world yet Wales have greater playing depth and coaches."

Lewsey was heavily involved in England's 2007 World Cup campaign, though a knee injury ruled him out of the defeat in the final against South Africa. During that tournament key members of the squad reacted to early problems, subsequently claimed by some players to have arisen because of mixed messages received from the coaching staff, by taking control of the tactical plan.

Mike Catt, Phil Vickery, Lewsey and Lawrence Dallaglio were amongst the core group that came up with a style of rugby which enabled England to mount a credible defence of their ***le.

With the national team losing to Australia and stumbling to a 16-9 win over Argentina, the current squad appears in desperate need of direction and inspiration, but the strong personalities who held sway in 2003 and 2007 - men capable of standing up to the coaching staff - do not, it appears, wield anything like that kind of influence.

Jonny Wilkinson and Lewis Moody remain, but are different animals to Catt and Dallaglio while Simon Shaw - one man with vast experience - has only just rejoined the squad and will be concentrating on getting up to speed before facing the All Blacks.

It is unfortunate that Vickery, the captain in 2007, is currently injured, as he also could have brought some order to the apparent confusion that currently exits within the squad.

By his own admission, Johnson accepts his players are bedevilled by the fear of failure and when he looks down the squad list, natural leaders are thin on the ground.

Steve Borthwick is his chosen captain despite serious concerns over the Saracens lock's ability to mix it with the very best in the game. His ball carrying is negligible and a perceived excellence in the line out is keeping him in the team.

If Vickery and Mike Tindall were fit their captaincy claims would warrant examination while Wilkinson could be another option if he ever embraced the idea and changed the way he goes about his ostensibly individual approach to Test rugby preparations.

Lewsey acknowledges that he benefitted from the approach of World Cup winning coach Sir Clive Woodward, which allowed the big personalities in the team - Johnson, Dallaglio, Neil Back, Matt Dawson and Will Greenwood - to have a major say in how the game-plan was devised and employed. Woodward provided the tools and let his men get on with the job.

Now, two years on, the dynamics have changed with the coaches holding the whip hand and the players having to follow their lead or find themselves surplus to requirements.

A heavy defeat by the All Blacks would naturally put Rob Andrew, the Rugby Football Union's elite rugby director in the firing line as he gave the coaching line-up his full support and played a crucial role in the engineering the departure of Brian Ashton as head coach to make way for Johnson just over a year ago.

Alternatives to the current coaches include Toby Booth, the London Irish director of rugby, as forwards coach; Dave Ellis, the Irish and France defence coach; Dave Alred returning to his former role as kicking guru while Ian McGeechan is uniquely qualified to be handed a role overseeing the whole team structure.

However, former Grand Slam winning England coach Dick Best believes some perspective has to be used in the current situation and urges caution.

"Can we please have a reality check," he said. "Yes, it was shambolic display but we beat a team above us in the world rankings and given the number of players unavailable due to injury, there was a case for celebrating in the streets.

" We have had a problem producing quick ball but played some good rugby while finishing second in the Six Nations and there were significant signs of improvement.

"Not many countries could cope with losing so many players and we are down to picking talented guys like Courtney Lawes, who hasn't even played for England A yet.

"Lots of attention is currently being focused on forwards coach John Wells and kicking coach Jonathan Callard but what about the attack under Brian Smith?"

Best is urging Johnson to get his tracksuit on and start working face-to-face with the players in training to ensure his message is getting across, but that is unlikely to happen given that Smith, Wells, Ford, Rowntree and Callard will want to protect their own positions in the set-up by working the squad even harder.

If the All Blacks fail to hit the straps and the weather becomes a leveller, England may get away with it, giving the coaches breathing space before the Six Nations arrives and their credentials are, once again, under the spotlight.[/b]

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s2...tm?387,11027181
 
Brian Smith (backs), John Wells (forwards), Mike Ford (defence), Graham Rowntree (scrum) and Jonathan Callard (kicking)

I find it hard to see any of those getting a job with a top 8 nation, f***, even Scotland and Italy could do better. I really isn't hard to work out, Martin Johnson is as Mite said, just another fall guy. Get rid of that shower of wasters and most importantly of all Rob Andrew and you might start moving forward.
 
I agree with Mite...it's Rob Andrew, not Martin Johnson who is to blame.
Nothing good has come of Andrew's term at the RFU. So, let him go and let the England Coach do what coaches are supposed to do. Then, if Johnson sucks, we'll truely know it's him.
 
Does any other nation have a setup like England. Wales have Gatland as head coach, and he doesn't have anyone above him who makes any decisions. The WRU leave him to get on with his job. The same is true for Andy Robinson for Scotland, Kidney for Ireland, Henry for NZ, Deans for Autrailia and even Pdv for SA (though he does need someone overseeing him!). I just find it an odd setup, kinda like what the Ospreys have going.

I agree with others on this thread. Andrew needs to go and the head coach (wheather Johnson is really right for the job is still questionable) needs to be allowed to bring in his own backroom staff.
 
Simon Shaw and Mathew Tait look certain to return to England's 22-man squad to face New Zealand after 10 players were released to return to their clubs.

The 36-year-old Shaw was added to the squad after proving his fitness for Wasps, and looks set to feature after Courtney Lawes was released.

Tait was retained after missing out against Australia and Argentina, with Andy Goode dropping out of the squad.

Ben Foden was also released, suggesting Ugo Monye will retain his place.

In addition to Lawes - who was on the bench for the opening two Tests of England's autumn campaign - and Foden, the other players to be released were Steffon Armitage, George Chuter, Jordan Crane, David Flatman, Ben Kay, Paul Sackey and Richard Wigglesworth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...ish/8362746.stm


45845626_9e2d9dca5e.jpg


Well I for have completely given up on England now. And until Rob Andrew, Mike Ford, John Wells, Brian Smith, Graham Rowntree, Jonathan Callard, Martin Johnson and Francis Baron all find themselves collecting their JSA once every other week, I won't be giving a stuff either.
 
Why sack off Lawes? Ridiculous =/
They should've sent Deacon packing =/
Hopefully now that Taits in the squad, Monye will go back on the wing, with tait at FB
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 17 2009, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Simon Shaw and Mathew Tait look certain to return to England's 22-man squad to face New Zealand after 10 players were released to return to their clubs.

The 36-year-old Shaw was added to the squad after proving his fitness for Wasps, and looks set to feature after Courtney Lawes was released.

Tait was retained after missing out against Australia and Argentina, with Andy Goode dropping out of the squad.

Ben Foden was also released, suggesting Ugo Monye will retain his place.

In addition to Lawes - who was on the bench for the opening two Tests of England's autumn campaign - and Foden, the other players to be released were Steffon Armitage, George Chuter, Jordan Crane, David Flatman, Ben Kay, Paul Sackey and Richard Wigglesworth.[/b]

Brought In
Shaw - superb, glad to get some oooomph back into the second row. :cheers:
Tait - again good. Better than any other centre in the squad (not saying much as there are only about 3 of them) and can add some flair. :cheers:

Kicked out
Lawes - better player than Deacon by far. He will only have played 20 minutes of rugby by the end of this series. Waste of an opportunity to blood a rising star :wall:
Foden - good, heared reports he dropped 3 high balls in a row at training. Too unreliable at the moment. :cheers:
Goode - thank god Johnson's found some sense. hopefully no more caps for this dickweed as Wilkinson, Geraghty and Flood are sealed as England's three 6 nations fly halfs :cheers:
Steffon Armitage - Can't argue with that, after Moody's form and Worsley's pedigree. :cheers:
Chuter - shouldn't be anywhere near the squad anyway :cheers:
Crane - can't offload, can't make more than 2 yards at a time :cheers:
Flatman - second best english tighthead, better than that twat Payne :wall:
Kay - better player than Deacon :wall:
Sackey - Needs to show more class for his club before he warrants an England call up :cheers:
Wigglesworth - 5th best scrumhalf behind Hodgson, Care, Simpson and Ellis :cheers:

Not too bad in my opinion. And also I agree on everything you say about the coaches.

Nice to see we got a mention on 606 too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A59702303
 
I hate the English.

On a side note, recondition is nice, but who's stealing my posts and posting on 606?
 
Why Lawes? Why? What man in his right mind thinks Lewis Deacon can make a better impact from the bench than Lawes?

At least Tait's back.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 17 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I hate the English.

On a side note, recondition is nice, but who's stealing my posts and posting on 606?[/b]

Lol. He's stealing all your posts Mite. Most sense I've ever read on 606 though, well apart from that JB1973, can we steal him?
 

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