The Leinster thread

[Ireland Slam]

8-12 weeks for O'Brien and 4-6 for Henshaw. O'Brien will be targeting a few provincial matches in preparation England at the Aviva I'd imagine. Henshaw not as bad as it could have been.

 

[Leinster Fan]

8-12 weeks for O'Brien and 4-6 for Henshaw. O'Brien will be targeting a few provincial matches in preparation England at the Aviva I'd imagine. Henshaw not as bad as it could have been.

I think we're lucky with those. That said with Tomane injured we've got no centre depth and I've no idea who's meant to play 12 against Bath now. Henshaw's going to be rushed straight back in if he's anywhere near match fit. Maybe O'Loughlin is our man given he played over 80 minutes there between the two Pro14 knockouts but that wouldn't fill me with confidence. Was about to suggest McFadden but then I remembered he's injured as well. F***'s sake.

 

[dburns647]

I think we're lucky with those. That said with Tomane injured we've got no centre depth and I've no idea who's meant to play 12 against Bath now. Henshaw's going to be rushed straight back in if he's anywhere near match fit. Maybe O'Loughlin is our man given he played over 80 minutes there between the two Pro14 knockouts but that wouldn't fill me with confidence. Was about to suggest McFadden but then I remembered he's injured as well. F***'s sake.

Has Ringrose ever played 12 for Leinster? Or was it just for Ireland against Australia?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Lads...




I'm not even being (all that) sarcastic, Reid is more than good enough to win against Bath sandwiched between Sexatron and Ringrose. He's been a handy 12 in the pool stages before.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Lads...

View attachment 6969


I'm not even being (all that) sarcastic, Reid is more than good enough to win against Bath sandwiched between Sexatron and Ringrose. He's been a handy 12 in the pool stages before.

To be fair they played him there against Glasgow inside Henshaw last year, we could do worse. He's been in decent form this season (admittedly at 10). As I see it the options are: Reid, O'Loughlin and then we're into shoehorning one of Larmour and Ringrose into 12 (it kinda worked against England when Aki got injured but it's hard to see coaches doing it by choice.) If we go really leftfield we could see Ross Byrne try it? He's got the passing and kicking game to really cause problems from that position and is good/big enough defending to play there. Won't happen though.

Think our best options are Reid and O'Loughlin.

We're in big trouble with the back line injuries, might be a reason why we've gotten Larmour back early.

Has Ringrose ever played 12 for Leinster? Or was it just for Ireland against Australia?

Think that was just against Australia, can't remember him doing it for Leinster.

Anyone else think we need Fardy starting? We should have enough for Bath either way but in the big games he was massive for us last year and he seems wasted as a sub. That said I can't see us dropping Ryan/Toner, Ryan because he's the best lock in the hemisphere at 22 and Toner because he's big for our lineout and you'd imagine Leo Cullen of all people would appreciate the value a lineout specialist who does the dirty work and maybe doesn't get the plaudits the rest of the team do (remind you of anyone) can bring. Maybe he's getting too old to play in the backrow? Fardy, Vdf, Conan would be very hard to deal with.

 

[dburns647]

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (2)
14. Adam Byrne (41)
13. Conor O'Brien (5)
12. Noel Reid (105)
11. James Lowe (19)
10. Ciarán Frawley (4)
9. Nick McCarthy (31)
1. Peter Dooley (52)
2. James Tracy (75)
3. Michael Bent (110)
4. Ross Molony (69)
5. Scott Fardy (29) CAPTAIN
6. Josh Murphy (12)
7. Scott Penny (0)
8. Caelan Doris (4)

16. Bryan Byrne (30)
17. Ed Byrne (28)
18. Vakh Abdaladze (3)
19. Mick Kearney (40)
20. Max Deegan (27)
21. Hugh O'Sullivan (3)
22. Jimmy O'Brien (0)
23. Jack Kelly (0)

 

[Leinster Fan]

Excited with this team, Penny has the potential to be at the level of the current 3 sevens in the squad and creating yet more selection headaches in the backrow along with Doris and Deegan. That's a decent team that'll be exciting to watch. The talent queue is getting a bit ridiculous in some areas of that team. COB at 13 has to be a bit of a worry though and having Reid inside him, Byrne/Lowe outside him and a player making his first start at 15 means that backline could well give up a lot of points. Really looking forward to this though.

 

[Derpus]

Could you please return Scott Fardy, we need him.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Could you please return Scott Fardy, we need him.

Technically there's nothing stopping you picking him. But yeah, he's only 6 I've seen play for you I can think of who makes playing Pocock and Hooper a viable option. Brilliant rugby player.

 

[Derpus]

Technically there's nothing stopping you picking him. But yeah, he's only 6 I've seen play for you I can think of who makes playing Pocock and Hooper a viable option. Brilliant rugby player.

He doesnt have 60+ caps so he has to be signed with a Super rugby team to be selected.

 

[Leinster Fan]

He doesnt have 60+ caps so he has to be signed with a Super rugby team to be selected.

I know, bit unfair on him given that he was really late to the professional rugby system in Australia, I'm pretty sure he was playing in Japan till 2012 or something. Rules are rules I suppose. S*** for you and Fardy but great for us, having a player like him to hold the young players hands when we've got 20 players in the Ireland squad makes such a difference.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Team to play the Dragons:
LEINSTER: H Keenan; A Byrne, J O'Brien, C O'Brien, D Kearney; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; E Byrne, J Tracy, M Bent; R Molony, S Fardy (capt); J Murphy, S Penny, C Doris. Replacements: B Byrne, P Dooley, A Porter, M Kearney, M Deegan, P Patterson, C Frawley, T Daly.

Very young squad. Scott Penny, Caelan Doris, Paddy Patterson and Ciaran Frawley are 20 or younger.

As an aside, in the preview in the Irish Times, Gavin Cummiskey hints that David Nucifora may want to move Max Deegan and Ed Byrne to other provinces. A few months ago he published a strange article on Leinster's scrumhalf production line. Days later Nick McCarthy moved to Munster. Did he have insider info then. Could we see Deegan and Byrne announced as leaving shortly?

I'd hate to lose either but there is quality depth in each of their positions. Both Deegan and Byrne moving to Ulster makes sense if the goal is to spread talent around the provinces. They have international potential but are buried down the depth chart at present.

 

[CraigWarrior]

Leinster. The envy of us all. Good that they have some young lads in for the Dragons game. All that will do for that match is keep their winning margin down a wee bit.

 

[munstermuffin]

Team to play the Dragons:
LEINSTER: H Keenan; A Byrne, J O'Brien, C O'Brien, D Kearney; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; E Byrne, J Tracy, M Bent; R Molony, S Fardy (capt); J Murphy, S Penny, C Doris. Replacements: B Byrne, P Dooley, A Porter, M Kearney, M Deegan, P Patterson, C Frawley, T Daly.

Very young squad. Scott Penny, Caelan Doris, Paddy Patterson and Ciaran Frawley are 20 or younger.

As an aside, in the preview in the Irish Times, Gavin Cummiskey hints that David Nucifora may want to move Max Deegan and Ed Byrne to other provinces. A few months ago he published a strange article on Leinster's scrumhalf production line. Days later Nick McCarthy moved to Munster. Did he have insider info then. Could we see Deegan and Byrne announced as leaving shortly?

I'd hate to lose either but there is quality depth in each of their positions. Both Deegan and Byrne moving to Ulster makes sense if the goal is to spread talent around the provinces. They have international potential but are buried down the depth chart at present.

In Byrne it makes sense although he is really just getting up to speed now but as you say depth is there.
Deegan an interesting 1. Every province has great backrow depth. But more so alot tippes Deegan to overtake Conan sooner rather than later. But as you pointed Ulster is the only viable option. And dare I say it Brexit and all that goes woth it is turning lads off Belfast a bit.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

In Byrne it makes sense although he is really just getting up to speed now but as you say depth is there.
Deegan an interesting 1. Every province has great backrow depth. But more so alot tippes Deegan to overtake Conan sooner rather than later. But as you pointed Ulster is the only viable option. And dare I say it Brexit and all that goes woth it is turning lads off Belfast a bit.

Not anymore, he finished last season well but has had terrible discipline this season while Doris has gone well. If Doris performs tomorrow he's in control of the 2nd choice 8 position. Deegan going North or west makes a lot of sense.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not anymore, he finished last season well but has had terrible discipline this season while Doris has gone well. If Doris performs tomorrow he's in control of the 2nd choice 8 position. Deegan going North or west makes a lot of sense.

Well that was why I was slow saying even if he does overtake Conan it won't be longterm as traffic behind is heavy too.
Doris, Murphy and a few pthers look like they will burst through faster than some of Leinster hope in the sense there will be some depth that a tough decision to move some on will be an issue. But a great spot to be in.

 

[Leinster Fan]

God. Talk about an overreaction. One young player (who's only just turned 22 ffs), gets played behind another excellent young player for TWO WEEKS and suddenly he needs to move? Not everyone is going to be James Ryan and establish themselves as one of the best players in the position in the world in a year, most players take longer to fully adapt to senior rugby and we need to expact that. Deegan was brilliant for Leinster last season, his form has dipped a bit over the last few weeks but if we're hardly going to give up on a young player everytime their career hits a small snag (or maybe we are, it's the way we seem to be going).

I really don't see how Deegan moving is going to benefit his development as a player. There's no denying that the coaches at the other provinces are just plain worse than Leinster's especially when it comes to developing and nurturing young talent. He's not going to get more playtime at any of them, all four have a deep set of players in those positions and he'd have to work his up there. He'd be further away from both the Ireland squad and regular Heineken Cup rugby (that's more Connacht in fairness) which you'd assume are his goals. Being third choice in a team where the first choice could be reasonably overtaken (and isn't available 50% of the time) and the team in question is among the best in the world and has a track record of great talent development is hardly a poor position to be in for a 22 year old.

It's not like it was with Carbery, there was a vacancy for him at another province who clearly needed a 10. Joey could go down safe in the knowledge that he'd be comfortably first choice and that he'd get regular game time in his preferred position at a high level. No province can offer that to Deegan.

Connacht and Ulster have their own players coming through and have literally just been given Murphy and Copeland, it's not like they need another ex-Leinster 8. Bear in mind that between them Connacht and Ulster have one backrow in the current Ireland squad, proud Ulsterman Jordi Murphy (oh wait...), Leinster have five. Deegan gets a huge amount of game time at Leinster that is only going to decrease if he moves purely because most of the players ahead of him aren't available a lot of games. (Not the point but worth noting that Connacht, Ulster and Munster together produced one backrow for the last Ireland squad, Leinster gave 6 and we got Stander off SA, it's the same at lock and halfback but sure that's for another day.)

If he moves the tussle with Doris that he's got right now is going to be over permanently in Leo Cullen's eyes. It's no brainer over who to pick if you've got 2 equally good young players but one's going to play for you next year and one isn't. His development would stall over the remainder of the season.

Ed Byrne makes sense a lot more but even still he's one injury to McGrath or Healy away from a consistent run at 17. The fact that he spent so long injured means that he should be really viewed as around 22/23 in rugby terms and that's nothing on a prop. Dooley could consider it but he turned one down a few years ago and is very passionate about Leinster in general so it'd be a hard sell to him.

None of this changes the fact that I'm really excited to see how Doris goes, he could easily start against Bath next week and if he went well there he's got the talent to overtake Conan and force his way into the Ireland reckoning in time for the 6N. (Then again so does Deegan if he got a chance).

 

[munstermuffin]

@Leinster Fan I don't think anyone is over reacting. Noone is saying Deegan has to move. More the IRFU want it as there is alot coming through and the IRFU don't want guys to be underutilized. Add in the budget side of it.
On the backrow comment, not really correct saying Munster produced 1 as Stander too has been developed slot by us. But again when you factor in population etc and per capita playing and private school funding/playing numbers etc then there is no real suprise.

But Leinster will look at it more we can have around 45 guys on full contract. So who do you pick?

It's simply a game of decisions. Leinster in my opinion can't really claim Copeland Beirne or guys like that as they cut them loose. That is just business. Some will slip through net. Always will. That's what happens when tje numbers kick in.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I'd hate to see Deegan move but could see the IRFUs rationale if he were to. If Ulster don't renew Marcell Coetzee's contract or Coetzee takes up a lucrative deal elsewhere, Deegan could slot in, be a cheaper option and start regularly in big league and European games which he isn't doing at present.

As a Leinster fan, my preference is clearly for all of Jack Conan, Caelan Doris and Max Deegan to remain. For Leinster, best use of resources may be to move Caelan Doris to 6 in the short term where he can cover for Rhys Ruddock and it allows Scott Fardy concentrate on playing in the second row. Conan and Deegan compete for the 8 shirt.

On Ed Byrne, he needs a run of games and is too talented to be stuck behind Cian Healy and Jack McGrath. So is Peter Dooley for that matter. One of those props may look to move of their own accord. It's possible that one of McGrath or Healy may take up a big deal overseas either.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd hate to see Deegan move but could see the IRFUs rationale if he were to. If Ulster don't renew Marcell Coetzee's contract or Coetzee takes up a lucrative deal elsewhere, Deegan could slot in, be a cheaper option and start regularly in big league and European games which he isn't doing at present.

As a Leinster fan, my preference is clearly for all of Jack Conan, Caelan Doris and Max Deegan to remain. For Leinster, best use of resources may be to move Caelan Doris to 6 in the short term where he can cover for Rhys Ruddock and it allows Scott Fardy concentrate on playing in the second row. Conan and Deegan compete for the 8 shirt.

On Ed Byrne, he needs a run of games and is too talented to be stuck behind Cian Healy and Jack McGrath. So is Peter Dooley for that matter. One of those props may look to move of their own accord. It's possible that one of McGrath or Healy may take up a big deal overseas either.

As mad as it sounds. After the next RWC and considering his injury record dp.you thunk SOB may consider departing.
As you say any Leinster fan wants them all to stay but they is such a depth of backrow talent there it will be hard financially and in terms of minutes to keep them all happy.

But equally will they want to move. Like I'm sure they all believe they can be the best.

As I said though it a good spot to be in.