The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd be surprised if Stander doesn't tour,
He had a strong 6N, there's not a ton of 8s around and he has a lot of experience at 6, which helps with the smaller squad

 

[Jakedood]

Best lineout forward is a tough one. Ireland's look good usually, but I also think they have the best lifters around, Tadgh Furlong is brilliant, James Ryan was poaching a lot in six nations, and Hendy/Beirne have good jumps too.
I'd stick Itoje at the 2 spot defensively, because its all bout the speed of your jump if they go to the front, and he's like a whippet getting up, very explosive
Kruis is renowned for it, but he wont be going given he's been out of the international scene and is in a highly competitive area
Im less knowledgeable on the Scots at lineout time, tough to judge as theyve also been without their first choice hookers most of the tournament
And Wales, AWJ is good, though not "Matfield esque", mind you who is
Lineouts these days are about the calls as much as anything, A lineout coach should go, I think Paulie would be awesome, but its more about where to jump, and working in tandem with your lifters, than just being able to jump high and fast (when you get past the front of the lineout anyway), so spotting triggers of the jump, and the patterns and dummies often used by the opposition. Like a game of chess these days

 

[big ginger 8]

AWJ took three lineouts all 6N and stole one not sure that's an area where he qualifies as good anymore.

For Ireland I believe Henderson and Ryan split the calling duties. Henderson looks after the attacking lineout and Ryan the defensive. The defensive lineout is one area where Ryan's recent development has been incredible recently. I think working with POC has really exposed him to the analysis etc that is required there and he's absolutely taken to it. Think he stole two lineouts in the 60ish minutes he played on Saturday.

A defensive lineout with Itoje, Ryan and Beirne would terrify any hooker in World Rugby even if SA usually have the out of the tallest lineout around.

 

[Jakedood]

AWJ took three lineouts all 6N and stole one not sure that's an area where he qualifies as good anymore.

For Ireland I believe Henderson and Ryan split the calling duties. Henderson looks after the attacking lineout and Ryan the defensive. The defensive lineout is one area where Ryan's recent development has been incredible recently. I think working with POC has really exposed him to the analysis etc that is required there and he's absolutely taken to it. Think he stole two lineouts in the 60ish minutes he played on Saturday.

A defensive lineout with Itoje, Ryan and Beirne would terrify any hooker in World Rugby even if SA usually have the out of the tallest lineout around.

I havent watched loads of Wales, but wanted to avoid the Welsh arguments

Ryan has come on leaps and bounds for sure in this element of the game

 

[MikeTheNative]

Funny enough Wales didn't use AWJ at all during the Autumn when their lineouts were pretty crap. During this 6 nations they mixed up a bit and had him take a few balls and be a credible option which helped the lineout a lot. He's an ok jumper, Wales have better options in Beard and Tirpuic so used them more.

 

[munstermuffin]

AWJ took three lineouts all 6N and stole one not sure that's an area where he qualifies as good anymore.

For Ireland I believe Henderson and Ryan split the calling duties. Henderson looks after the attacking lineout and Ryan the defensive. The defensive lineout is one area where Ryan's recent development has been incredible recently. I think working with POC has really exposed him to the analysis etc that is required there and he's absolutely taken to it. Think he stole two lineouts in the 60ish minutes he played on Saturday.

A defensive lineout with Itoje, Ryan and Beirne would terrify any hooker in World Rugby even if SA usually have the out of the tallest lineout around.

To be fair re Ryan and Saturday, Lineout steals shouldn't be looked at as both teams had **** show. But agree he has improved.
Itoje and Beirne would be scary on same field for their poaching power alone. Will be interesting to see too would 1 of those guys be used as a 6 even in warm ups to see.
Itoje's big worry is his penalties conceded stat.

We need to factor in too SA will be rusty

 

[Jakedood]

I still think Tuilagi has to go on this tour.. I mean he is a gamble, if fit, but if he gets injured you can call someone else up. However he is far and away the most destructive centre in B&I, probably worldwide. He makes an impact offensively, defensively, good offloads, and even ganging up on him doesnt really stop him
He's not concentrating too much on it I'm sure, just thinking about playing again, and controlling what he can, but if fit he has to go, he really does. He's too good not to, even if George North is fit and someone said he was a "nailed on starter" somewhere, you cannot tell me the Boks would rather Face Tuilagi over North. Theres no comparison, its a very good player in a new position, vs an outstanding player who dominates opposition. He stood out in QF v Australia 2019, v NZ in SF, and was even bloody good in the six nations in 2020. Henshaw should be nailed on at 12, but that 13 shirt is Tuilagi's if he can make it

To be fair re Ryan and Saturday, Lineout steals shouldn't be looked at as both teams had **** show. But agree he has improved.
Itoje and Beirne would be scary on same field for their poaching power alone. Will be interesting to see too would 1 of those guys be used as a 6 even in warm ups to see.
Itoje's big worry is his penalties conceded stat.

We need to factor in too SA will be rusty

TBF to Itoje, he did reel it in after the Wales game, big time, and even then some of the penalties he was getting called for I'd never seen before. Like dislodging the ball from an attackers hands, and being called a deliberate knock on, etc. An area to improve upon, but I dont think itll be as massive an issue as people are making out

 

[TRF_Olyy]

TBF to Itoje, he did reel it in after the Wales game, big time,

Aye, he conceded one in each of the following two games and 7 vs Wales
I mentioned in another thread (or maybe earlier in this?) I think he was told to push the line, and just pushed it too far (/was faced with stricter refereeing than was anticipated). Martin Johnson said the same thing - except he said Itoje should have realised that he wasn't getting away with anything and adjusted mid-game - which he definitely should have

 

[Jakedood]

Aye, he conceded one in each of the following two games and 7 vs Wales
I mentioned in another thread (or maybe earlier in this?) I think he was told to push the line, and just pushed it too far (/was faced with stricter refereeing than was anticipated). Martin Johnson said the same thing - except he said Itoje should have realised that he wasn't getting away with anything and adjusted mid-game - which he definitely should have

The big thing for me is in that Wales game, I dont think any were abundantly stupid penalties, like Jonny Hill's. Just playing on the edge a little too much, and that can be reigned in, it's the thuggery stuff of a Schalke Burger or the braindead penalties that Haskell used to give away that would be more of a worry for me, because its due to lack of thought rather than a conscious effort to impact the game and striving too much

 

[MikeTheNative]

One crap game doesn't make a good player bad. Itoje is one of the best locks so should go.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Prem will release players after the conclusion of their domestic responsibilities

Game still clashes with the prem final though, so no players from top 2 sides, and I'm guessing no players from next two as well as they'll have only been in camp for a few days

 

[Jakedood]

Prem will release players after the conclusion of their domestic responsibilities

Game still clashes with the prem final though, so no players from top 2 sides, and I'm guessing no players from next two as well as they'll have only been in camp for a few days

I think this was all Gatland wanted, rather than have players stay with their clubs even if they had no more games.. Its not no players, but said it could affect 50/50 calls for some. Glad they came to an arrangement
Eg If Hogg is in the final he's obviously getting picked. Same re Paddy Jackson

 

[Leinster Fan]

Prem will release players after the conclusion of their domestic responsibilities

Game still clashes with the prem final though, so no players from top 2 sides, and I'm guessing no players from next two as well as they'll have only been in camp for a few days

To be fair I'm pretty sure Gatland acknowledged that that was inevitable, just wanted the guys who could be released earlier to be available (not unreasonably).

Glad it's been cleared up, with all the other problems the Lions are facing this year they didn't need this in the way too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eeehh, it was a problem of their own making - they knew when the premiership final was going to be but still booked an out-of-window money spinner for the same day

 

[munstermuffin]

I still think Tuilagi has to go on this tour.. I mean he is a gamble, if fit, but if he gets injured you can call someone else up. However he is far and away the most destructive centre in B&I, probably worldwide. He makes an impact offensively, defensively, good offloads, and even ganging up on him doesnt really stop him
He's not concentrating too much on it I'm sure, just thinking about playing again, and controlling what he can, but if fit he has to go, he really does. He's too good not to, even if George North is fit and someone said he was a "nailed on starter" somewhere, you cannot tell me the Boks would rather Face Tuilagi over North. Theres no comparison, its a very good player in a new position, vs an outstanding player who dominates opposition. He stood out in QF v Australia 2019, v NZ in SF, and was even bloody good in the six nations in 2020. Henshaw should be nailed on at 12, but that 13 shirt is Tuilagi's if he can make it



TBF to Itoje, he did reel it in after the Wales game, big time, and even then some of the penalties he was getting called for I'd never seen before. Like dislodging the ball from an attackers hands, and being called a deliberate knock on, etc. An area to improve upon, but I dont think itll be as massive an issue as people are making out

If Itoje does keep discipline in tact then he is a a serious weapon and him and Beirne could be serious weapons with 1 at 6. On the pens conceded I must admit I did not look too closely to see if he was harshly reffed but have noticed it alot with Munster players in Pro14 that refs are a bit different and some pens conceded could easily be pens won.

On injury call ups. I presume they are all ok or does there need to be some sort of isolation etc. Not sure.

 

[munstermuffin]

Eeehh, it was a problem of their own making - they knew when the premiership final was going to be but still booked an out-of-window money spinner for the same day

Some money spinner now too like if no fans it will cost them possibly some compensation.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just playing on the edge a little too much, and that can be reigned in.

Absolutely it can, but to the probable detriment to performance. In Itoje's case being on the edge is the nature of the beast, and whether fairly or otherwise he has a reputation for pens and every ref on the planet knows it.

Alex Ferguson used to tell Roy Keane to go out and play his natural game in the full knowledge he'd spend a third of the season suspended. Simply because a more controlled Keane without the rage was a much inferior player. It's a similar principle with Itoje - if you want the big performances he has to be given licence in full acceptance of the potential downsides.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I watched the Northampton game last night. Biggar has to start. Almost reaching god like status at the moment.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I watched the Northampton game last night. Biggar has to start. Almost reaching god like status at the moment.

If he's only almost reaching Sexton like status why would he start ahead of him?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Injured Launchbury out of Lions tour

Wasps lock Joe Launchbury is ruled out of this summer's British and Irish Lions tour of South Africa with a knee injury.

www.bbc.co.uk