Warm Up Match 5: Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Rotorua)

[Vieux Talonneur]

hey mate, interested to know who you think the tight five should be.

1. Mako's the main issue. His scrummaging remains erratic at best, a liability at worst, and should bench. Don't mind which of McGrath or Marler starts. McGrath is perhaps the more explosive, but when no-one's been looking Marler's quietly turned into a very good, reliable, all round test prop.

2. With good props George should be OK.

3. No arguments over Furlong

4. No arguments over Kruis. He's our best all round lock and has to play.

5. If you want pure scrummaging power it's got to be AWJ. His performance last week put him back in the frame. Itoje's very athletic and dynamic, but I'm not convinced he's the greatest scrummager around. That said I'd like to see Lawes paired with Kruis and he probably isn't either.

Getting the balance right is hard.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I would like:
McGrath Owens Furlong
Kruis Lawes
Bench: George, Mako, Sinckler, Henderson (as long as his performances continue to improve.

I think that's a solid tight 5.

 

[McTallshort]

1. Mako's the main issue. His scrummaging remains erratic at best, a liability at worst, and should bench. Don't mind which of McGrath or Marler starts. McGrath is perhaps the more explosive, but when no-one's been looking Marler's quietly turned into a very good, reliable, all round test prop.

2. With good props George should be OK.

3. No arguments over Furlong

4. No arguments over Kruis. He's our best all round lock and has to play.

5. If you want pure scrummaging power it's got to be AWJ. His performance last week put him back in the frame. Itoje's very athletic and dynamic, but I'm not convinced he's the greatest scrummager around. That said I'd like to see Lawes paired with Kruis and he probably isn't either.

Getting the balance right is hard.

Yet when he and Lawes are in the same England team he Scrummages and Lawes goes on the flank

 

[first5eight]

What a backline. Wouldn't shock me at all if McKenzie, Ioane & NMS are in our starting backline at the next WC. And Jordie Barrett.

Solid looking team and if the Maori can get anything that even looks like parity up front, which I believe they can, there's enough ridiculous talent out wide to turn even quarter chances into points.

Really hope the ref doesn't try and over imposse himself on the game. Although Christchurch was entertaining in its own way, you could never a say a game like that would bring neutrals in and grow the code. Hopefully it's an absolute spectacle and the players are the ones who decide it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Considering he is leaving and has been a passionate, loyal servant for the Chiefs, I reckon he'll play both.

And juuust in case you didn't know, you guys have scored ******* big time with him! (though I'm sure you well and truly knew that lol)

I can't wait to see what he does, I'm hoping he'll be as good as Isa Nacewa which may be setting expectations too high but I have seen very little wrong, and a lot right with him in my limited viewings.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'd question whether Halfpenny is the best kicker in the world.
Probably was a couple of years ago when he was knocking over any and everything, But he misses a few now (not to say he's a bad kicker by any stretch or the imagination, just not 100% anymore)
I'd have as much confidence in Farrell as Leigh, and I certainly wouldn't weaken the back 3 just have halfpenny's kicking there.
Annoying that Sanjay hasn't been given a real go at 15, think he's got the tools to be a starter there.

Yep agree with these wise words. Except that I don't know who Sanjay is.

One point I'll make in favour of Halfpenny, a defensive plan like the Lions's is vylnerable to kicks in behind, a really strong positional fullback is a great help

#devilsadvocate

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I would like:
McGrath Owens Furlong
Kruis Lawes
Bench: George, Mako, Sinckler, Henderson (as long as his performances continue to improve).

I think that's a solid tight 5.

Same, though I'd flip a coin for which one of Owens/George starts.
I said it before but I really hope Maro has a big game, him on top form is truly world class

Yep agree with these wise words. Except that I don't know who Sanjay is.

Liam Williams

 

[bazwaz]

Since when does Gatland consult with Hansen over sending reinforcements for the Lions?

Educated guess perhaps by Hansen... but sounds like Gatland is in fact calling up reinforcements according to this Irish Times article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...yers-to-make-up-lions-team-v-chiefs-1.3121137

 

[mosfeldt]

Gerry Thornley is a pretty poor rugby journalist, I wouldn't take heed of much of what he says. It's not fact or confirmed that this is Gatland's plan, just idle speculation.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not sure why I did this when there are actual things I need to be doing, but hey:

 

[Nubiwan]

1.Kane Hames
2.Ash Dixon
3.Ben May
4.Joe Wheeler
5.Tom Franklin
6.Elliot Dixon
7.Kara Pryor
8.Liam Messam

9.Bryn Hall
10.Ihaia West
11.James Lowe
12.Charlie Ngatai
13.Matt Proctor
14.NMS
15.D.McKenzie

16.Chris Eves 17.Hika Elliot 18 Marcel Renata 19.Leighton Price 20.A.Ioane 21.Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi 22.Otere Black 23.Robbie Thompson

A.Ioane would be massive off the bench I think. Can easily start him over Dixon though. The Maori's seem to have plenty of guys who can play 6 and 8 but not so many opensides.

That's a pretty respectable back line, if I may say so. A lot of threats there that I would wonder if the Lions know much about. NMS, if on form, is a handful by himself. McKenzie, same. Lowe and Ngatai are also impact players suited for this sort of 'test'. Lions already know what West can do. He's nippy, if slight. Not sure I know much about the first 5/8 Hall. Otherwise - 'kin 'el. If they get any sort of adequate platform from their pack, then this could get tough for the Lions. Dixon, Pryor and Messam is a pretty friggin decent back row. Admit to only recognizing Tom Franklin from the tight 5, so hoping this is a good sign for the Lions. From 5 to 15 - that is a pretty decent looking team anywhere.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Not sure why I did this when there are actual things I need to be doing, but hey:

I think that's probably exactly why you did it (or at least that's how it works for me).

 

[Nubiwan]

OK, so now I "DO" know this number 9. Anywhere else in the world - he's a walk on test scrum half. In NZ, he's third on the pecking order. In my opinion, my favourite NZ 9 to watch. I just find Smith and Perenara too stereotypical "pain in the ass" nines. Great players, but they rub me the wrong way to watch them sometimes with their attitude. A lot of heat in that back line and more names I recognise in the pack. Surprised Pryor not getting a nod, but still a rangy back row. The lions are in for another friggin tough examination. Have to say, if nothing else, the matchups have been nothing less than intensely intriguing. Will it be decided by another 2-3 points or will one of these sides find a way to break out?

 

[valley commando]

Since when does Gatland consult with Hansen over sending reinforcements for the Lions?

I'm pretty sure that the replacements will be Scottish, one will be Russell, the others

Strong team. Happy that POM has proved me wrong and its good to see Warburton is rightly behind O'Brien in the pecking order but I have to question Halfpenny at fullback.

Is he really the best option?

Yes he is the best option and if fit plays in the tests, his kicking ratio is second to none and Farrells is below average, plus I would rather Farrell concentrates on his game.

 

[Larksea]

going to be a very interesting game, I really like this Maori side I think this would be close to the Strongest Maori team ever.

that loose forward Trio and back three trio.... man...

the key is going to be if TKB and dmac can find space, if they can its game on...

The way this tour is going the halfback is critical. Probably no surprise that TKB is IMO the most important player.

ngatai is important as well, he has an excellent kicking game and makes great decisions.

They wont have spent much time together, I think it will be important for the super rugby combinations to click. like 8, 9, 10, 12 are all chiefs, 3 highlanders in the tight 5

my only concerns are Ben May, hes a big mobile and hard working prop but I'm not sure I rate him as an elite scrummager, I think it can be a bit of a weakness for him at times and probably the main reason after such a long career in NZ hes never made the AB's. A bit of a chink in the scrum.

Neither of the locks are big tight head scrimmaging locks. They are mobile which suggests we will give away a bit more in the scrum but the pack is still big, mobile and full of ball carriers.

we dont have a true #7/fetcher. Dixon needs a big game, its been a long time since 2015 when he was arguably the best loose forward in NZ and he has now lost his All Black spot. MAB's are going to rely on individual performances and his will be a key one.

So far the Lions games have tended to be more about counter rucking than stealing so that may be the plan here too.

So many good points, the team is full of game breakers.

Messam needs a big game, when you look at his stats as far as loose forwards go he is a distributor and that is the role he needs to play. Get the ball moving and move the lions forwards around.

With the ioane brothers, dmac, Lowe and NMS there are a lot of x-factor. Against a side like the lions its going to be important for them to maintain their shape while these guys go to work. When he is at his best dmac tends to dominate games and constantly be in play but he relies on players being around him to either attract defenders or take passes & gaps he creates. Lowe is there and knows how to work with dmac but it will be a new experience for the likes of Ioane & NMS.

The ref will be critical again. hopefully we have a ref that keeps the game flowing...

 

[valley commando]

Some of the goal kicking decision making has been odd. Biggar retained goal kicking duties after Laidlaw came on even though the latter is a far superior goal kicker. He should also have taken the one that Farrell missed seconds after coming on as he hadn't even touched the ball.

Shut up, you reckon Laidlaw is a better kicker than Biggar Boll***s he is, check the stats, most of Laidlaws kicks are on or around 30 metres

going to be a very interesting game, I really like this Maori side I think this would be close to the Strongest Maori team ever.

that loose forward Trio and back three trio.... man...

the key is going to be if TKB and dmac can find space, if they can its game on...

The way this tour is going the halfback is critical. Probably no surprise that TKB is IMO the most important player.

ngatai is important as well, he has an excellent kicking game and makes great decisions.

They wont have spent much time together, I think it will be important for the super rugby combinations to click. like 8, 9, 10, 12 are all chiefs, 3 highlanders in the tight 5

my only concerns are Ben May, hes a big mobile and hard working prop but I'm not sure I rate him as an elite scrummager, I think it can be a bit of a weakness for him at times and probably the main reason after such a long career in NZ hes never made the AB's. A bit of a chink in the scrum.

Neither of the locks are big tight head scrimmaging locks. They are mobile which suggests we will give away a bit more in the scrum but the pack is still big, mobile and full of ball carriers.

we dont have a true #7/fetcher. Dixon needs a big game, its been a long time since 2015 when he was arguably the best loose forward in NZ and he has now lost his All Black spot. MAB's are going to rely on individual performances and his will be a key one.

So far the Lions games have tended to be more about counter rucking than stealing so that may be the plan here too.

So many good points, the team is full of game breakers.

Messam needs a big game, when you look at his stats as far as loose forwards go he is a distributor and that is the role he needs to play. Get the ball moving and move the lions forwards around.

With the ioane brothers, dmac, Lowe and NMS there are a lot of x-factor. Against a side like the lions its going to be important for them to maintain their shape while these guys go to work. When he is at his best dmac tends to dominate games and constantly be in play but he relies on players being around him to either attract defenders or take passes & gaps he creates. Lowe is there and knows how to work with dmac but it will be a new experience for the likes of Ioane & NMS.

The ref will be critical again. hopefully we have a ref that keeps the game flowing...

Hopefully we get a ref that knows the scrum laws, unlike the Muppet that had the whistle on Tuesday

 

[Nubiwan]

Yes, there are times when he was injured and not playing, Biggar got 90% in 2015, Laidlaw only at 85%.

Who gives a flying? Like, honestly? If making the test team is decided by who has the higher kicking percentage in the line up, between those players mentioned, then we might as well all **** off home. I'd suggest kicking is merely a "nice bonus" for many NZ 10s. For Northern Hemisphere, our entire game is structured around it. Give it a rest with who is the best kicker.

If you want to discuss statistics, then how about more Scots should be in the squad than Welsh or Irish players, based on the last 6N? No one really cared about those minor hiccups in form.

 

[mania]

going to be a very interesting game, I really like this Maori side I think this would be close to the Strongest Maori team ever.
my only concerns are Ben May

agree, i also reckon this is best maori team ever.
i think the forwards are the key here.
the maori forwards are proven work horses. at the very minimum the tight5 are going to do their jobs all day and give a solid platform to attack from. this will enable the backs and with all that strike power it could lead to a lot of tries.

agree about benMay. he just doesnt make good decisions sometimes, like rally dumb ones, sometimes. his technique is a bit weak but he makes up for that by being really strong.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Before you start all that chat about the greatest Maori team ever bear in mind there are some players who have gone before that need to be acknowledged... like Kees Meeuws...
Waka Nathan, George Nepia...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The last Maori team to play the Lions was pretty bloody good too - maybe less X factor though.

Maori All Blacks: 15 Leon MacDonald, 14 Rico Gear, 13 Rui Tupoki, 12 Luke McAlister, 11 Caleb Ralph, 10 David Hill, 9 Piri Weepu, 8 Angus MacDonald, 7 Marty Holah, 6 Jono Gibbes (c), 5 Sean Hohneck, 4 Ross Filipo, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Corey Flynn, 1 Deacon Manu
Replacements: 16 Scott Linklater, 17 Greg Feek, 18 Daniel Braid, 19 Wayne Ormond, 20 Craig McGrath, 21 Carlos Spencer, 22 Neil Brew