[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Namibia (24/09/2015)

[Kiwi_]

Smith wasn't a genius overnight and he's had the least game time out of all our centres (Fekitoa), he's definitely the future though and he has all the qualities, few things he can brush up on, but as I said, a new centre is moulded and grafted with time so they do become the great decision makers they are.. To excuse Savea just running it out is a little conservative, where's the improvisation, where's the chip and chase? Where's the infield kick.. come on you have to expect more from your wingers in those situations, that's why they're out their for their dynamic play and 'flair'.

 

[ABs2011]

Smith wasn't a genius overnight, so he will learn when the time is right. To excuse Savea just running it out is a little conservative, where's the improvisation, where's the chip and chase? Where's the infield kick.. come on you have to expect more from your wingers in those situations, that's why they're out their for their dynamic play and 'flair'.

Not saying he was mate, the point is that decision making at centre is more important than on the wing.

Again, look at the defence he was facing at the time after he received the ball. I think you might change your mind if you look at what his options realistically were at that point. To be fair, in that position would you seriously expect anything but an AB winger having a crack on the outside?

 

[Kiwi_]

To me I think Julian has just lost his bursting pace and some of his strength, he's done very little with some of the space he's been given. Very similar Joe Rokocoko who also faded very young as a player. It's certainly coming close to dropping him time. Although today was definitely more encouraging. I think Naholo should start at 11 next, he'll be rusty coming off injury but let's get a look at him and see how he goes at 11. But I think he will go with Savea 11 and Naholo at 14 to see how it works.

Also I think you're slightly diminishing the role of a winger. It's a dynamic position, with quick decision making and attacking vision, it's vital to have players on the outside with those attributes, Savea is a physical winger and once that side of his game starts to drop, then he's going to become far less effective.

 

[ABs2011]

To me I think Julian has just lost his bursting pace and some of his strength, he's done very little with some of the space he's been given. Very similar Joe Rokocoko who also faded very young as a player. It's certainly coming close to dropping him time. Although today was definitely more encouraging. I think Naholo should start at 11 next, he'll be rusty coming off injury but let's get a look at him and see how he goes at 11. But I think he will go with Savea 11 and Naholo at 14 to see how it works.

Also I think you're slightly diminishing the role of a winger. It's a dynamic position, with quick decision making and attacking vision, it's vital to have players on the outside with those attributes, Savea is a physical winger and once that side of his game starts to drop, then he's going to become far less effective.

I'm in no way diminishing the role of the winger, not sure where you got that from, far from it in fact. But just to make sure we are not getting off track, the comparison of Savea and Fekitoa was initially brought up by you and Nick in relation to decision making, where you implied one had to be just as critical about Savea in that respect if there was to be criticism of Fekitoa. I disagree. If there are to be crticisms of Savea it should be directed first and foremost at his fitness, his form, his explosiveness, and his ball handling. For me his decision making is largely a non-issue at the moment. Also don't forget Savea was arguably the best winger in the world for several seasons. I'm positive Hansen and co haven't forgotten that and am pretty sure they will do what ever they can to get him back to that point for he finals.

Anyway we've probably banged on about this enough.

The really interesting thing is not what any of us have to say about it, its who gets selected alongside Naholo in the next game. I believe that will give us an indication of who Hansen and co want to go with moving forward to the knock-outs.

 

[Kiwi_]

I think Vito should be considered to start over Kaino.

 

[ABs2011]

I think Vito should be considered to start over Kaino.

Not sure it will happen. Kano is another one of those guys that the ABs just love. Super reliable, been there done that, strong with the ball etc etc. vs Vito who is undoubtedly a talent, but I think considered a little more risky. On top of that Vito is a better fit on the bench than either Messam or Kaino. He's in form though so you never know I guess. It just seems with the ABs you almost have to play your way out of a position - perhaps a worry....

 

[Boomslangnz]

lol say whatever you want about the All Blacks performance. They made like 13 changes , most of the team was our B team who haven't had any gametime since Super Rugby. No point in peaking now, it's about peaking during the knockout stages

As for us being at a disadvantage for having a weak pool? Rubbish, You telling me you would rather a team have 5-6 HARD games in 6 weeks. Fatigue will very much play a part in this tournament so I'm more then happy with our pool

 

[Kiwi_]

I'm more than relieved that we haven't had any injuries, I know it's still early, but a tough physical game against Argentina and a tricky game vs Namibia and we've come off completely unscaved is pretty good so far.

 

[wertas]

Poite is not the cup of tea for everyone, that's for sure, but complain about referee after the match with the weakest rugby team in the tournament and having a few amateurs is absolutely pathetic.
Of course they wasted time as they could on scrums. All teams are doing with some extent on various levels. Also, some scrums were because of All Blacks knock-on's which were resulted either because of good Namibia's defence, or All Blacks' carelessness on the offence. Just do not give such chances to waste time to the opponent. Simply as that.

I do not understand the usage of TMO. In Savea's try in the second half, touch judge was probably 2 meters away and he should just have called a try without calling for the possible double-movement. Touch judge convinced Poite go for TMO as was not sure 100%. In such cases we should stuck with on-field decision and if it is sometimes incorrect, should have to live with that. One more case, then it was not sure whether it was try or hold-on, but it was ruled out as accidental knock-on by All Blacks and scrum to Naminia. Usually in such cases the referee has the best view and cameras sometimes do not catch ball in the pile of bodies. Call it hold-on and move on giving the ball to attacking team.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It certainly was an enjoyable game to watch. And I was so glad that Namibia scored a try. At one stage I thought that it's going to be a repeat of 2003 vs. Australia.

Also, very happy that Nehe Milner-Skudder got some tries and the MOTM award.

 

[Kiwi_]

Not saying he was mate, the point is that decision making at centre is more important than on the wing.

Again, look at the defence he was facing at the time after he received the ball. I think you might change your mind if you look at what his options realistically were at that point. To be fair, in that position would you seriously expect anything but an AB winger having a crack on the outside?

Just rewatching the game. Having a crack on the outside just wasn't on. He should have come inside. Even Justin Marshall points this out. Support play was close enough to protect the pill, but I think the best option would have been to kick it and turn them. I think Saveas lack of vision is evident and improvisation. Naholo could have done far better in this situation. Naholo is also great under the high ball, an area where Julian is quite frankly, terrible.

 

[ABs2011]

Poite is not the cup of tea for everyone, that's for sure, but complain about referee after the match with the weakest rugby team in the tournament and having a few amateurs is absolutely pathetic.

Bit harsh mate don't you think?

I think many on here have been pretty reasonable post match. Perhaps a few comments earlier on that were a bit enthusiastic but if you read carefully what people are saying regarding the refereeing, it is simply that no apparent effort was made to stop the game from grinding to a halt, particularly in the second half. For the sake of the game, IMO there needs to be some changes. It was just a bit sh ! t to watch.

Apparently only 12 minutes of ball in hand action in that second half - a half which in turn took 51 minutes to complete. To put that in context, that is about 50% less rugby than you would expect in an average half of international rugby.

The Lost Half: Only 12 minutes of action

 

[nickdnz]

Poite is not the cup of tea for everyone, that's for sure, but complain about referee after the match with the weakest rugby team in the tournament and having a few amateurs is absolutely pathetic.

I disagree, expecting a good performance from referees who are appointed rugby world cup matches, is pretty much a given. If you complain about the performance of a referee in a tight match you are also accused of the same thing.

The management of the game was poor. It didn't prevent the probable outcome - but it did kill it as spectacle and meant very little rugby was actually played.

Again not sure what the opposition has to do with anything. Posters have by in large praised Namibia. This post just feels like a pathetic dig.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm just glad that Poite had a rather poor game where the Springboks wasn't one of the teams playing...

 

[Kiwi_]

A lot of the stoppages came from Namibias man down. They had to make changes when one of their front rowers was sent off to sort the scrums out, they also made many 1 man a time subs that took up a lot of time coming off and on. It didn't help we continued to chose scrums over line outs and tap and goes. This slowed the game considerably. We were happy to take it easy as well.

 

[Icemn]

To me I think Julian has just lost his bursting pace and some of his strength

think its his hairstyle... cornrows ()

 

[austingtir]

Savea is so one dimensional its not even funny. at about 65minutes in he gets clean ball on the wing on the left side runs hard up the pitch. There are atleast 5 or 6 Namibians closing him into the touchline. His ONLY option there is to chip through (or over) given the cover defence he faces...... he gets bundled into touch like the dud that he is.

 

[nzlizard]

This is actually an unfair analysis of Fekitoas game. His support play was brilliant and vision. On the try, he actually read the game and attack and sprinted from one side of the park to the other to cover Franks and Whitelocks poor tackle, I agree he could have done better in the tackle, but couldn't go low and driving, due to Franks and Whitelock being in the way and the 0 tackle stat was due to them having little of the ball or attacking the midfield at all. On your other point, you go on forgive Savea a paragraph later for virtually the same thing, that pretty much sums it up for me.

I agreed he could have done better in the tackle, but the fact he was THERE to attempt to tackle has to be acknowledge as well, that's good vision, whether you agree or not it was good covering defence. Whitelock could have done better in the tackle so Fekitoa wasn't required to go in high? All the variables huh. There were a lot more factors to that try than Fekitoa, and you're trying to paint him as the sole villain, yet being very apologetic for Savea's lately weak games. What ever man.

Fekitoa ****ed it up, all he had to do was stop the man from dropping and he had bad technique in the tackle, maybe he took it casual based on the state of the game, but none the less that try should never have been scored and it is a black mark against him.

lol say whatever you want about the All Blacks performance. They made like 13 changes , most of the team was our B team who haven't had any gametime since Super Rugby. No point in peaking now, it's about peaking during the knockout stages

Agreed, for me a lot of the mistakes were timing and combinations, just that last pass falling through due to a split second or half a step. That is what games like this are for.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Hmm, Scratchy performance at the end, but we won by what I thought we would! Predictions of 100 points I didn't see eventuating, even if we played sublimely. It wasn't just us being off the pace in the second half, it was also the Nambibians slowing the whole game down, and Poites incompetence (for both teams). That's my rationalisation of it anyway.

First half - brilliant. SBW was probably the biggest positive to come out of this for me. Offload and tackling game were strong, and he has developed a good understanding with Fekitoa. It's encouraging to see that with more game time SBW gets better and steps up to the plate. Fekitoa himself though, very disappointed tbh. This game epitomised my concern with him. A lot of running sideways, not much go-forward happening. If we're criticising Savea on his inability to break tackles then surely Fekitoa should come under the same spotlight? Can't see him being our 13 after the WC tbh, and it's not just cause of this game.

Faumaina seemed to get involved heaps which is great, wasn't sluggish and got his hands on the pill. Vito was probably my other choice for our best player out there today. A lot of energy and ferocity running on to the ball. Code Taylor...what did I tell you guys? He's good!

Savea - I can see what he's TRYING to do but his choices are very poor at times. When you sprint down the touch line and you have about 3 defenders coming at you, wouldn't you cut in field? He did seem to have speed on his side but his ability to finish or make something more of a situation is off for sure. Better than previously but still not at an acceptable standard.

Good learning experience for Sam Cane as captain. However, let's just say I think based on that Read will be our captain f'sure in 2016.

I know Perenara has a strong running game and had an awesome Super but our halfbacks outside Aaron Smith are seriously crap. People say Webber is a carbon copy of Smith. Good, I'll take it.

I agree with analysis . Yet I am concerned . The AB's do not look like the best side in the tournament . I hope we get a better performance from Carter, Kaino and woodcock. The break down needs to be an area of focus. Maybe it's a good thing they are not bringing out spectacular performances at this early stage .

 

[Mcfadden]

The other thing that I think is really important is that while I agree, the officiating was poor, and the game was extremely stop start with way to many delays, the real point is, the ABs have to find ways to deal with that, and anything else that comes there way better. They looked frustrated and it showed in their game. Instead they need to find answers in game. Perhaps a few more tap and goes to speed things up, some line-outs taken at pace. Something to change things up a bit. They were a little too predictable, structured maybe, and Namibia to their credit pushed the boundaries and for the large part got away with it.

Yes, I think you're absolutely right and there is something in what you're getting at.

The ABs obviously don't lose very often. But the times I have seen South Africa tip us up, or Argentina give us a torrid time it's usually been because A) we are completely deprived of possession, which SA can do really well sometimes over in the Republic, and it is immensely frustrating. And B ) have the other team dictate the pace of the game. Some of what Nambibia did was cynical, but I'm not angry about it or moaning. With all respect, they're a small fish facing a shark. It's smart cynical. We just have to find a way to counteract that strategy. At times we don't help ourselves either though.

Although we still play a fast game by international standards, I've said a couple of times this year that we feel very old-man like in some areas. Outside of Aaron Smith, we're very slow at getting that ball out. TJP arrives at the ruck fast, and he can really sprint, but the clearance just takes too long. As you say, let's not be conservative. If the opportunity is on for a tap-and-go, don't hesitate, we should back ourselves, especially if the opposition are slowing things down. It wasn't an issue in this game, but the speed of getting to rucks has also been an issue.

^^ This is partly why I'm liking Vito more and more, because his form and skill set seem to alleviate a few issues right now. I believe you should make selections based on context, which is something I've always said. Woodcock and Kaino are still going to be vital to us, but in the context of our challenges I must say - Crockett and Vito are looking more appealing by the day as far as our full strength team is concerned.

In terms of other teams purposefully mucking around and slowing the whole game down, we are just going to have to hope that most referees will be better than Poite. There is an edict to crack down on fake injuries and messing about with that, so we should extend that to scrummaging as well. We don't need 20 minutes of scrums. This is an area where we need our captain to really speak up as well. Because it's a little bit beyond our control, and we need to get in the refs ear if this is happening.

Anyway, I'm not unhappy about this win. That would be the wrong word. Just reflective I guess. At worst I'm unsatisfied, but I'm not upset. I do have concerns, but I'm hoping they'll be answered by the knock out stages. I'd be concerned anyway. Imagine if we went through this tournament completely undefeated this year, and were perfectly cohesive in every match. I'd be much more nervous than I am right now, because that just smells like previous World Cup defeats. It's a win, by a big margin, not what we wanted but we should take it. Live, learn and love rugby.

Poite is not the cup of tea for everyone, that's for sure, but complain about referee after the match with the weakest rugby team in the tournament and having a few amateurs is absolutely pathetic.

Nah buddy. Referees don't have to be perfect. But at this level of rugby, in the holy grail competition of our sport, I expect calls to make sense.

I don't have to AGREE with them (i.e: saying one team is offside when in my view they aren't) but as I said, they should be coherent. He didn't know what he was doing with the scrums. He gave two official warnings to players who he got mixed up. He didn't know Monday from Sunday. It's all good in pool play and kinda funny in a way. But come semi-finals time it'll start deciding results as opposed to margins, and I have a big problem with that. So should you.